Pay to get more money (spoilers)

[Rubedo]

I always think it's strange when a game has items like gathering swarm and fragile greed. I mean geo is not such a problem. But if it was more expensive it wouldn't be rentable. What I mean is that this system is strange (not to mention unbreakable greed). It would be much more interesting as an item you get after a fight or a platforming sequence.

[Paladin: The Golden Fox]

Fragile greed is pretty much a long term investment. Sadly it only seems to increase your income by about 50% so it's not nearly as useful as gathering swarm (which requires fewer notches AND is much cheaper!).

It would have been a nice touch if all the unbreakable charms were actually stronger than their fragile versions. I don't really understand the inclusion of the quest to make them unbreakable, as you're definitely going to spend WAY more on upgrading them than if you broke them all, say, even a hundred times. I guess it does save time having to walk back to the little guy that sold them in the first place. That- and, well, I guess the quest is satisfying for coprophiliacs. Ew. >.<

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

When a person invests, it always requires a sacrifice of some present asset that they own, such as time, money, or effort.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR.technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

When a person invests, it always requires a sacrifice of some present asset that they own, such as time, money, or effort.

I think OP's point was, for a game, it's more enjoyable if extra money comes from effort, not existing money.

That said, Fragile Greed is the cheapest of the fragile charms and by far the least likely to break, so you'll have the money back pretty quickly, especially when coupled with Gathering Swarm.

[Rubedo]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR.technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

I think OP's point was, for a game, it's more enjoyable if extra money comes from effort, not existing money.

That said, Fragile Greed is the cheapest of the fragile charms and by far the least likely to break, so you'll have the money back pretty quickly, especially when coupled with Gathering Swarm.

Originally posted by Boksha:

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR.technology:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investment

I think OP's point was, for a game, it's more enjoyable if extra money comes from effort, not existing money.

That said, Fragile Greed is the cheapest of the fragile charms and by far the least likely to break, so you'll have the money back pretty quickly, especially when coupled with Gathering Swarm.

You got what I thought about!

[Rubedo]

Oops

[kanna]

Originally posted by Rubedo:

You got what I thought about!

Something to consider instead is *who* both Fragile Greed and Gathering Swarm come from. These charms (and their shop descriptions) are character statements about Leg Eater and Sly as much as the Hunter's Journal entries are about the Hunter.

[Rubedo]

Originally posted by kanna:

Originally posted by Rubedo:

You got what I thought about!

Something to consider instead is *who* both Fragile Greed and Gathering Swarm come from. These charms (and their shop descriptions) are character statements about Leg Eater and Sly as much as the Hunter's Journal entries are about the Hunter.

I think this information could be told with other sources.

[kanna]

Originally posted by Rubedo:

I think this information could be told with other sources.

What information are you talking about that could be "told with other sources" exactly? Do you want some other NPC to start gossiping about how Leg Eater desires power and Sly enjoys the "game" of salesmanship? Should there be signposts out in the world, explaining character behaviour? The mantra for writers is "Show, don't tell," after all.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by kanna:

What information are you talking about that could be "told with other sources" exactly? Do you want some other NPC to start gossiping about how Leg Eater desires power and Sly enjoys the "game" of salesmanship? Should there be signposts out in the world, explaining character behaviour? The mantra for writers is "Show, don't tell," after all.

Easy solution: swap the obtainment method (i.e. getting purchased from Sly and Leg Eater) for the two money charms, Gathering Swarm and Fragile Greed, with any other two charms or powerups that are gotten through some other method. (of course, that would probably mean Greed is no longer fragile and some other charm is, but there's no reason that couldn't work just as well as the current setup)

Sly and Leg Eater selling charms and them selling these specific charms are separate things.

[kanna]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Originally posted by kanna:

What information are you talking about that could be "told with other sources" exactly? Do you want some other NPC to start gossiping about how Leg Eater desires power and Sly enjoys the "game" of salesmanship? Should there be signposts out in the world, explaining character behaviour? The mantra for writers is "Show, don't tell," after all.

Easy solution: swap the obtainment method (i.e. getting purchased from Sly and Leg Eater) for the two money charms, Gathering Swarm and Fragile Greed, with any other two charms or powerups that are gotten through some other method. (of course, that would probably mean Greed is no longer fragile and some other charm is, but there's no reason that couldn't work just as well as the current setup)

Sly and Leg Eater selling charms and them selling these specific charms are separate things.

The entire point of my post was to point out story and character implications and you're talking about this as though they don't exist. I'm kind of surprised by that. It's a player's prerogative to ignore story and character development in their personal playthroughs, but it's a whole other thing to deny it exists in the design of the game.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by kanna:

The entire point of my post was to point out story and character implications and you're talking about this as though they don't exist. I'm kind of surprised by that. It's a player's prerogative to ignore story and character development in their personal playthroughs, but it's a whole other thing to deny it exists in the design of the game.

I'm pretty sure I'm not getting your point, or you're not getting mine.
Character details being revealed in game aspects obviously does exist, and the how and what is largely a result of a game's development process. Surely you don't think the game couldn't possibly have been any different from how it is now, or that everything in the game has been thought out from the get-go, or even that the game couldn't have produced the same experience as it does now even if decisions were made differently? We KNOW from developer interviews Hollow Knight's development process, as with all games, has involved trial and error, cut content, decisions made on the spot during development, characters' backstories changing during development, et cetera. You really think the developers couldn't possibly have changed gameplay aspects without also changing story aspects? Or even changing gameplay aspects without producing an equally good experience overall?

[kanna]

I'm sorry, I can't understand what you're asking simply because I'm not sure how you understood what I said. It almost sounds like we could be saying the same thing now.

I'll do my part and reiterate that what I was getting at (for whoever might be interested) is based around the idea that if you transplant the Greed and Gathering Swarm charms to being items "you get after a fight or a platforming sequence" as OP suggested, they no longer play a role in defining the attitudes of the characters that sell them.

Sly seems to love the "battles" of geo, which I take to mean the "art" of sales. (He's also a bit of a hoarder, and it seems since Sly moved from a more prestigious position to a less prestigious one, his obsession with collecting geo is like a game or a thrilling hobby.)

Leg Eater is obsessed with various aspects of accumulating power, including the financial and the social realms of it at the least, and his overall attitude is more appropriate to associate with Greed (and perhaps gluttony too to some extent actually).

These details are subtle, and there's certainly interpretation involved here but what I was getting at is the two charms wouldn't have the same kind of meaning elsewhere. It just seems the most appropriate that the most geo-obsessed characters would make you cough up geo if you want to be like them. Geo related charms (and for Sly, another Lumafly-related item) fit these character specifically.

There are other charms though that hardly have much associated with them, like Stalwart Shell. This one is also sold by Sly, but could probably be dropped just about anywhere else in the game. If there's a connection to Sly with this one, I didn't see it like I do with Swarm.