Completing Ascended boss hitless should also award the Radiant medal

[D. Seitaro]

A feature like this would be really nice when someone manages to defeat some of the more challenging bosses on Ascended difficulty without getting hit, while they still had the Radiant difficulty locked.

I've noticed that it's not a thing after defeating the Collector on Ascended hitless.

[kanna]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Perseus:

I think it would indeed be nice, because then one could continue "failed attempts" to improve themselves, with both less frustration as an added bonus and a sense of completion for (probably) winning the fight.

If you could clarify, do you mean to say this would be in addition to having Radiant as its own separate fight, so people can opt out of Radiant difficulty but still have the light? If so, I can see it as an option for people who don't see themselves going farther (yet), except how would it help people improve themselves who are literally arguing that they should not have to repeat a fight to develop consistency beyond where they've just managed to complete Ascended their first time?

If the repetition necessary to improve gets to someone, they can take a break or do something else, but there's no getting around the fact that repetition is needed for improvement to happen.

If people are consistent at Ascended, then some of their better fights might go hitless in that difficulty. That makes this a very minor convenience for people who are actually at that level (at best), and a shortcut to avoid improving for those who are not (at worst). If they are actually at that level, and so they've managed to complete Ascended before, they might as well just go for Radiant in the case of most bosses if they truly feel no psychological difference to it at all.

It seems to me this is along the lines of the all bindings and hitless lights for pantheons. It would be one thing if we were talking about having an assist mode parallel to all of these features that enable those who don't feel up to it, but instead we're talking about removing a challenge that many people enjoy just because some people find it inconvenient.

[D. Seitaro]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

If i beat Absrad on Ascended without getting hit, i would honestly feel a little cheated if it also gave me the Radiant medal

What you "feel" doesn't really matter here. You completed all of the requirements of what's required for golden medal and a game shouldn't scam you on that.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

Yes, i could just do it again on Radiant if i cared enough about having to beat "Radiant", but it wouldn't feel the same to me if i already got the medal from doing it hitless on something other then Radiant.

You're making the same mistake again, by treating Radiant as a separate difficulty. It is not. Radiant shares the same difficulty as Ascended, only that it was equipped with a quick restart QoL for those, that want to beat the boss hitless.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

I could also purposely take a hit on Ascended so i wouldn't get the Radiant medal, but making the player have to purposely take damage would be bad game design.

Why would anyone purposely rob themselves of a chance to receive a reward? Again, you're not making an absolute sense.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

You said it's not opinion-based, but it is. The entire discussion is subjective. Me and you are proof of this.

Of course it's not opinion based. It offers improvement and there's no disadvantages to that. But for some uknown reason, you refuse to accept that change to the game and you see it as something bad. And I can only guess if you're doing that because of pride, twisted ideology, or anything else.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

Even if i was the only person against your suggestion, that wouldn't change the fact that i don't want it in the game. So obviously, i'm going to disagree with your suggestion. If you couldn't handle other people disagreeing with your suggestion, then why did you make it in the first place? It's not an objectively good QoL suggestion. And i don't mean to say your suggestion is bad, i'm simply saying i don't think it'd fit in the game.

I don't want your suggestion in the vanilla game, i don't care if you disagree with me not wanting it in the game, i still don't want it in the vanilla game

And that's pretty much the only thing you do on this forum, and not to me. I saw topic created by others, and if their points questioned your ideology, you would immediately attack them without any real argumentation. It's called gatekeeping and it's absolutely pathetic and contemptible thing to do. And also the fact that the rest of the community turns a blind eye to what is basically preventing an expansion of said community is astonishing.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

But here's a mod that's way better then your suggestion

I've checked it. And no, it isn't better than my suggestion (you just said it's better to get back at me). It's an alternative to what I've proposed, which I've already explained in the discussion. That either make the game award you with golden medal on Ascended hitless, or make the Radiant unlocked by default. As both suggestions fix the time issue of obtaining every gold medal.

[Soju]

You post a suggestion on a DISCUSSION forum then seem to get angry at people discussing it. Your suggestion was entirely reasonable and then two people replied with reasonable reasons why they disagree. There was no malice, the first reply by Coco specified that it was his opinion and then Kanna replied also disagreeing but admitting that it was debatable.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Co‏‏‏‏‏co:

It doesn't really feel like it'd fit imo, i beat somebody (forgot who) hitless on Ascended and struggled to do it again on Radiant before, and that idea did cross my mind, but i wasn't really surprised when i saw it didn't exist, and didn't care much for it to exist.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย kanna:

I remember I did PV hitless on my first try Ascended. It's such a learned fight it wasn't that hard to do it Radiant after, but I also definitely did NOT get it done on my very first try on Radiant. I agree with Coco on this. It's debatable, but there's something about the idea of setting out with the intention and achieving it that I think might have been part of the devs' decision there.

*edited* for clarity because I somehow left out the "did NOT" above.

You then reply by insulting them, ignoring the point they made, and then creating a straw man asking how a quality of life improvement can be bad.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

Both of your arguments make absolutely no sense.
Explain to me, how exactly a quality of life improvement is bad for the game?

Tintingaroo then makes a similar argument saying that the mindset is an important factor in challenges and you reply by simply dismissing his argument.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

[
If a game forces you to repeat exactly the same thing, then it's a bad design. No ifs or buts.

And there is no such thing as a different mindset. One who plays Ascended difficulty hoping to do it hitless will feel the same pressure as someone who plays on Radiant difficulty. In both situations one hit means you have to start over, so treating those as 2 different runs is ridiculous.

No ifs or buts? As in no discussion required, I am right and you are wrong? Then you make a claim that different mindset is not a thing supported by a very specific example. I could be wrong but I don't believe anyone as ever argued against your very specific point that if you go into Ascended difficulty with the intent of doing it hitless it is the same as Radiant.

The next round I join in trying to focus you on the point of the mindset being different and others reiterate and expand on their original points. Here are a few examples of your response:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

I've already explained how hitless Ascended and Radiant are exactly the same, and I'm not gonna explain it again. And you can't disprove that.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

If you get hit, then it's no longer a hitless Ascended run. I don't know how simpler I can explain it to you.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

Again, not understanding what a hitless Ascended run is.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

I'm lost how you don't realize how stupid that is.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

Ascended hitless is the same as Radiant. You're making the same mistake as Coco and Soju

These are all from ONE of your posts responding to several people. It is only after this string of belittling responses and insults that other people begin responding more aggressively. A bit later, the best part comes:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย D. Seitaro:

Oh good. So you're a fanboy of the game. A type of player that shares traits of lunacy and fanaticism. Where every argument rightly pointing out the flaws of the game is taken as a personal attack, and must respond with a hostility and toxicity. No one takes such persons like you seriously btw, so I'm gonna pay less attention to the blabbering you post here.

Have you ever heard of confession through projection? You are accusing someone who disagreed with you of being a fanboy of the game and taking your "rightly pointing out flaws" as personal attacks and responding with hostility. Replace "fanboy of the game" with "fanboy of yourself" and it would be a very good description of how you handled this post.

To summarize: You point out what you believe to be a flaw in the game; several people reply disagreeing; you belittle their replies and insult them; they reply aggressively; you accuse them of being hostile and toxic.

This then devolves into people repeating the claim that mindset matters and that not everyone plays the way you do and you replying by insulting them and repeating your very specific case example while ignoring their point.

[D. Seitaro]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

You post a suggestion on a DISCUSSION forum then seem to get angry at people discussing it.

If you haven't noticed, this forum doesn't have a separate category for suggestions.
Was I supposed to post it under Troubleshooting?

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

Your suggestion was entirely reasonable and then two people replied with reasonable reasons why they disagree. There was no malice, the first reply by Coco specified that it was his opinion and then Kanna replied also disagreeing but admitting that it was debatable.

They didn't give anything reasonable to refute my suggestion. I asked for them to show what's bad about my suggestion, and they didn't do it. They only showed arrogance and negligence to any chance to be implemented to the game. Because they want the game to stay the game to stay as they like, and opinion of others doesn't matter to them. Even if that opinion would be beneficial for the overall experience.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

You then reply by insulting them, ignoring the point they made, and then creating a straw man asking how a quality of life improvement can be bad.

You believe I ignored their points. I've read them, and none of them serve as a counterargument to mine.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

Tintingaroo then makes a similar argument saying that the mindset is an important factor in challenges and you reply by simply dismissing his argument

A different mindset in fighting two equal versions of the same boss isn't and shouldn't be a factor in rewarding the player. That's kinda like you would mod your game, to recolor the bosses. And then claim that you're the only player in the world who beat those bosses, because you "feel" they're different from the base game.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

No ifs or buts? As in no discussion required, I am right and you are wrong?

You're making another mistake here, by treating this whole suggestion as something subjective, because it was posted in Discussion forum.
It doesn't matter what's my or someone's else opinion on this is. The true is that this is an upgrade to the game.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

You are accusing someone who disagreed with you of being a fanboy of the game and taking your "rightly pointing out flaws" as personal attacks and responding with hostility.

I've called him fanboy because he actively attacks on this forum that even slightly resembles a criticism of the game. If you've seen his post history, then you would understand, instead of trying to blame it on me.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

To summarize: You point out what you believe to be a flaw in the game; several people reply disagreeing; you belittle their replies and insult them; they reply aggressively; you accuse them of being hostile and toxic

Again with you treating it as something subjective and something that I believe, but I've already explained it in this post above.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Soju:

This then devolves into people repeating the claim that mindset matters and that not everyone plays the way you do and you replying by insulting them and repeating your very specific case example while ignoring their point.

I only point out to them that they're wrong. No matter how many people repeat the same wrong argumentation, it won't suddenly become true. Google what argumentum ad populum is.