Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight

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Toki Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:03pm
Ethics Behind Radiance
So, I just beat up Radiance.
I'm wondering about the lore and ethics.
Did I just kill the sun?

Is it fine to thrust your big black thing into radiance's face-hole while your big bro holds the gaping hole open for you?
Or is it immoral? Is my bug guy the bad guy of the story?
Last edited by Toki; Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:03pm
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Showing 1-15 of 28 comments
Scorpix Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:18pm 
You destroyed The forgotten goddes of light. You havent killed the sun.

Radiance was responsible for the infection even though it was at the beggining only caused accidentally. To be honest she got quite good reason to be angry, because Pale King forced everyone including the moth tribe which worshiped her, to forget about her. Unfortunetly some bugs still had some memories of her and they have started to see the light in their dream which after some time turned them back to feral state.

She might be immortal but at the end she was swallowed by the void (darkness) from which Hollow Knight, Knight and many vessels were borned.

Also fun fact. When you see and think that Hollow Knight is screaming, you are wrong. It is a Radiance Voice. Hollow Knight (like other vessels) cant talk and doesnt have voice at all.

Long story short:

1. There was Radiance, moth tribe and bugs in feral state.
2. Pale King was borned from the Wyrm (or reincarnaite)
3. Pale King forces bugs to forget about Radiance, so he could be the only god.
4. Everyone forgets about Radiance
5. Pale King builds a great Kingdom of Hallownest, keeps good contacts with Mantis Lords, Mushroom people, but spiders rejects him. Bees seems to remain neutral.
6. Everything is going well
7. Some bugs starts to dream about light (Radiance)
8. After some time those bugs starts turning back to feral state and infection starts to spread
9. Pale King starts to experiment with void and creates Hollow Knight. Perfect vessel to seal Radiance
10. Hollow Knight with Radiance are closed in temple and doors are sealed by three great bugs who fall into eternal dream.
11. Hollow Knight fails to keep Radiance inside and she starts to spread infection again turning almost everyone into feral state.
12. Pale King with White palace dissapear.
13. After some time Knight arrives to replace Hollow Knight.
14. You defeat Radiance, infection ends and all dead vessels can go back to rest.
Last edited by Scorpix; Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:34pm
Toki Aug 18, 2019 @ 6:05pm 
Originally posted by Scorpix:
You destroyed The forgotten goddes of light. You havent killed the sun.

Radiance was responsible for the infection even though it was at the beggining only caused accidentally. To be honest she got quite good reason to be angry, because Pale King forced everyone including the moth tribe which worshiped her, to forget about her. Unfortunetly some bugs still had some memories of her and they have started to see the light in their dream which after some time turned them back to feral state.

She might be immortal but at the end she was swallowed by the void (darkness) from which Hollow Knight, Knight and many vessels were borned.

Also fun fact. When you see and think that Hollow Knight is screaming, you are wrong. It is a Radiance Voice. Hollow Knight (like other vessels) cant talk and doesnt have voice at all.

Long story short:

1. There was Radiance, moth tribe and bugs in feral state.
2. Pale King was borned from the Wyrm (or reincarnaite)
3. Pale King forces bugs to forget about Radiance, so he could be the only god.
4. Everyone forgets about Radiance
5. Pale King builds a great Kingdom of Hallownest, keeps good contacts with Mantis Lords, Mushroom people, but spiders rejects him. Bees seems to remain neutral.
6. Everything is going well
7. Some bugs starts to dream about light (Radiance)
8. After some time those bugs starts turning back to feral state and infection starts to spread
9. Pale King starts to experiment with void and creates Hollow Knight. Perfect vessel to seal Radiance
10. Hollow Knight with Radiance are closed in temple and doors are sealed by three great bugs who fall into eternal dream.
11. Hollow Knight fails to keep Radiance inside and she starts to spread infection again turning almost everyone into feral state.
12. Pale King with White palace dissapear.
13. After some time Knight arrives to replace Hollow Knight.
14. You defeat Radiance, infection ends and all dead vessels can go back to rest.

Thank you!

Does Hollow Knight (player's character) have agency? Does he feel and think?
The Dark Heart Crest thing said something about him being mindless, or something, I think.
Syndiciate Aug 18, 2019 @ 6:53pm 
Originally posted by Scorpix:
To be honest she got quite good reason to be angry, because Pale King forced everyone including the moth tribe which worshiped her, to forget about her.

What is this assumption based on?
Gray Aug 18, 2019 @ 7:39pm 
Originally posted by Thos:
Originally posted by Scorpix:
You destroyed The forgotten goddes of light. You havent killed the sun.

Radiance was responsible for the infection even though it was at the beggining only caused accidentally. To be honest she got quite good reason to be angry, because Pale King forced everyone including the moth tribe which worshiped her, to forget about her. Unfortunetly some bugs still had some memories of her and they have started to see the light in their dream which after some time turned them back to feral state.

She might be immortal but at the end she was swallowed by the void (darkness) from which Hollow Knight, Knight and many vessels were borned.

Also fun fact. When you see and think that Hollow Knight is screaming, you are wrong. It is a Radiance Voice. Hollow Knight (like other vessels) cant talk and doesnt have voice at all.

Long story short:

1. There was Radiance, moth tribe and bugs in feral state.
2. Pale King was borned from the Wyrm (or reincarnaite)
3. Pale King forces bugs to forget about Radiance, so he could be the only god.
4. Everyone forgets about Radiance
5. Pale King builds a great Kingdom of Hallownest, keeps good contacts with Mantis Lords, Mushroom people, but spiders rejects him. Bees seems to remain neutral.
6. Everything is going well
7. Some bugs starts to dream about light (Radiance)
8. After some time those bugs starts turning back to feral state and infection starts to spread
9. Pale King starts to experiment with void and creates Hollow Knight. Perfect vessel to seal Radiance
10. Hollow Knight with Radiance are closed in temple and doors are sealed by three great bugs who fall into eternal dream.
11. Hollow Knight fails to keep Radiance inside and she starts to spread infection again turning almost everyone into feral state.
12. Pale King with White palace dissapear.
13. After some time Knight arrives to replace Hollow Knight.
14. You defeat Radiance, infection ends and all dead vessels can go back to rest.

Thank you!

Does Hollow Knight (player's character) have agency? Does he feel and think?
The Dark Heart Crest thing said something about him being mindless, or something, I think.
we do not play as the hollow knight, we play the knight. and no, we dont feel. thats the whole point of us being created
Scorpix Aug 18, 2019 @ 8:33pm 
Originally posted by Syndiciate:
Originally posted by Scorpix:
To be honest she got quite good reason to be angry, because Pale King forced everyone including the moth tribe which worshiped her, to forget about her.

What is this assumption based on?

Maybe forced is a wrong word. Convinced might be better. Free mind and will for forgeting their goddes.
Originally posted by Scorpix:
Originally posted by Syndiciate:

What is this assumption based on?

Maybe forced is a wrong word. Convinced might be better. Free mind and will for forgeting their goddes.
I think it’s this:

The Radiance represents temptation, living solely on desire, Siegmund Freud’s concept of the id.

The Pale King represents the pursuit of knowledge and power for the sake of one’s own knowledge and power, without being bound by ethical standards. He can also be seen as a representation of self-memorialization, doing whatever he can to prolong his legacy even after death.

The void represents the unknown balance that exists between desire, the pursuit of knowledge, and morality that must be explored and discovered by the individual, carving your own personality and fate upon the shoulders of what came before.
Last edited by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr; Aug 19, 2019 @ 1:18pm
Toki Aug 19, 2019 @ 10:37am 
Why would the Knight choose to do anything if he didn't feel anything?
What makes him do things?
Syndiciate Aug 19, 2019 @ 11:08am 
Originally posted by Scorpix:
Originally posted by Syndiciate:

What is this assumption based on?

Maybe forced is a wrong word. Convinced might be better. Free mind and will for forgeting their goddes.

I don't know if it was the Pale King's plan to make the citizens of Hallownest forget about the Radiance. I think it was incidental ( I tend to subscribe to the view that the Pale King was a well meaning utilitarian like Ozymandias from Watchmen ).
Boksha Aug 19, 2019 @ 2:51pm 
If I recall correctly, he did try to make everybody forget about the Radiance, but this was after she already started manifesting as the infection.

Note that both the Radiance and the Pale King were gods of light; they were rivals. Neither was good nor evil; the moth people were quite content to live worshipping the Radiance in unison, and the bugs did well worshipping their king and developing their individuality. Things only went south when the moths decided to worship the Pale King and the Radiance became enraged with jealousy. Of course, from that point, the Radiance was pretty outright evil, and the Pale King committed some serious evils trying to seal her away.

Also worth noting that the Pale King (and probably the Radiance, too, but I'm not sure if there's any clear evidence for it) was very much a monotheistic god; he didn't tolerate the idea that there was anything outside of his reign, in both space and time, preaching that his civilization was the first, last and only civilization, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Last edited by Boksha; Aug 19, 2019 @ 2:52pm
Bizzle02 Aug 19, 2019 @ 7:47pm 
Originally posted by Thos:
Why would the Knight choose to do anything if he didn't feel anything?
What makes him do things?
The vessels were the Pale King's children, their eggs immersed in void to grant them its properties. They were all created for the singular purpose of ending the Radiance, either by containing or destroying it. They have no mind or free will, but are driven by the task for which they were created.
Toki Aug 19, 2019 @ 9:10pm 
Originally posted by Bizzle02:
Originally posted by Thos:
Why would the Knight choose to do anything if he didn't feel anything?
What makes him do things?
The vessels were the Pale King's children, their eggs immersed in void to grant them its properties. They were all created for the singular purpose of ending the Radiance, either by containing or destroying it. They have no mind or free will, but are driven by the task for which they were created.

Why did my Knight save the curvy bug fangirl?
And why did he go help the old guy in the dark centipede place?
Or go hang out with miner girl who becomes a brain dead miner person? (Visiting her to chat up with her.)
Last edited by Toki; Aug 19, 2019 @ 9:11pm
Bizzle02 Aug 19, 2019 @ 10:01pm 
Originally posted by Thos:
Originally posted by Bizzle02:
The vessels were the Pale King's children, their eggs immersed in void to grant them its properties. They were all created for the singular purpose of ending the Radiance, either by containing or destroying it. They have no mind or free will, but are driven by the task for which they were created.

Why did my Knight save the curvy bug fangirl?
And why did he go help the old guy in the dark centipede place?
Or go hang out with miner girl who becomes a brain dead miner person? (Visiting her to chat up with her.)
For Bretta, the knight doesn't have perfect information, so anything it sees it will try to interact with to determine that it's either good and therefore an asset in completing its task, or hostile and therefore an obstacle to be swiftly nailed.
As for Myla, what kind of heartless monster wouldn't go say hi every once in a while?
And as for Zote, he's a legendary knight of great renown, a truly valuable asset to the knight's quest.
GeminiEclipse Aug 19, 2019 @ 10:16pm 
Originally posted by Bizzle02:
Originally posted by Thos:
Why would the Knight choose to do anything if he didn't feel anything?
What makes him do things?
The vessels were the Pale King's children, their eggs immersed in void to grant them its properties. They were all created for the singular purpose of ending the Radiance, either by containing or destroying it. They have no mind or free will, but are driven by the task for which they were created.

Well that's just straight up false. The Hollow Knight had feelings. It's why the Radiance was able to take over.

It's a pretty standard trope of the "mindless" creations having just as much feeling as normal people. You can see it in tonnes of media. I really don't see how the vessels can't have feelings just because the creator says they don't.
GelatinousMate Aug 20, 2019 @ 5:43am 
SPOILERS WARNING!



For me Void is not evil nor good it's absolutely neutral... it's nothing... (like vacuum in space for me). It's Pale King weapon against the Radiance.

Also both sides was defeated by this weapon... King in his palace (probably by his Kingsmoulds). Radince by our Knight, Hollow Knight and shades of their siblings.

Both lights were absorbed by the Void, and after that it simply dissapear... returnes to the Abyss... and did not become a new king or god. You can also see in Dreams No More ending how Siblings shades - fragments of a lingering will dissapears/hiding right after the plague was gone! They can finaly find their peace! Weapons must have a target or objective... Plague was that target!

P.s. If there are misstakes in the answer, I apologize, I'm not a native speaker.
Last edited by GelatinousMate; Aug 20, 2019 @ 5:48am
4D Aug 20, 2019 @ 6:46am 
Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:
Originally posted by Bizzle02:
The vessels were the Pale King's children, their eggs immersed in void to grant them its properties. They were all created for the singular purpose of ending the Radiance, either by containing or destroying it. They have no mind or free will, but are driven by the task for which they were created.

Well that's just straight up false. The Hollow Knight had feelings. It's why the Radiance was able to take over.

It's a pretty standard trope of the "mindless" creations having just as much feeling as normal people. You can see it in tonnes of media. I really don't see how the vessels can't have feelings just because the creator says they don't.

But that's why the Hollow Knight failed wasn't it? Because it discovered feelings while being raised by the Pale King. The Knight did not fail because he remained a true "pure vessel."
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Date Posted: Aug 18, 2019 @ 5:03pm
Posts: 28