Why does the shade attack the knight ?

[GoulactiX]

Is there a lore reason behind it or is it purely for gameplay purposes?

[Leviathan]

it might be both but im really not sure

[Boksha]

Major story spoilers, but... from the fact that the shade stops attacking you after you unified the Void, we can conclude that, up that point, the Void was not OK with being trapped in little bug knights.

[SageKyd]

Originalmente postado por Boksha:

Major story spoilers, but... from the fact that the shade stops attacking you after you unified the Void, we can conclude that, up that point, the Void was not OK with being trapped in little bug knights.

or what if its possible that the shade/void of our little knight, somehow "knows" that this vessel is born from pale beings? not that there isnt much to go on with this ASIDE from the godhome ending with the delicate flower and the shade lord trying to escape the godseeker and being rejected by the pale delicate flower could resemble some form of "Power / Hierarchy" over the Void. just speculation but it would be pretty neat if the Shade lord / void in general went into hiding from pale beings, prior to even the Radiance's reign with the moth tribe and then inevitably being outcasted by the Pale Wyrm/King.

[DaPieEater]

Here's what I think: Based on my observations, I think that shades, and the void in general is just hostile when it is not united (kinda like wild animals). Since they are not united by the void heart, they basically have no unified will, causing individual void "parts" to attack living things indiscriminately or act on their own (like void tendrils, siblings, the player's shade, and maybe even the collector). However, once you use have the void heart, they follow the player's will, explaining why the void enemies stop attacking you since they don't have to attack stuff aimlessly anymore. I'm not sure about this, but in the ending of godmaster, you actually "unite" the void for real into this monster call the "void entity", and the ending shows the monster acting and thrashing violently. Probably hinting that void itself may be a malicious entity. But I don't really know, it's just my take on it.

[SageKyd]

Originalmente postado por ducinweb2:

Here's what I think: Based on my observations, I think that shades, and the void in general is just hostile when it is not united (kinda like wild animals). Since they are not united by the void heart, they basically have no unified will, causing individual void "parts" to attack living things indiscriminately or act on their own (like void tendrils, siblings, the player's shade, and maybe even the collector). However, once you use have the void heart, they follow the player's will, explaining why the void enemies stop attacking you since they don't have to attack stuff aimlessly anymore. I'm not sure about this, but in the ending of godmaster, you actually "unite" the void for real into this monster call the "void entity", and the ending shows the monster acting and thrashing violently. Probably hinting that void itself may be a malicious entity. But I don't really know, it's just my take on it.

no yeah, that sounds pretty accurate, there's even the Shade Lord statue in King's Pass which in my opinion shows that the Void used to possibly be united at one point prior to what Hallownest was. What if the battle of the Black Wyrm was just the shade lord's previous "Body"? O.O I mean if the Pale King was a Wyrm prior, then WTF! did the Black Wyrm transform into? if Bardoon thinks Wyrms can transform if they wish to. which is proven by the Pale King. wouldnt it be crazy if the Pale Wyrm fought the Black Wyrm and saved Hallownest, and thats how the King became to be revered by the bugs of Hallownest, and even how he got his 5 Knights. speculatively, he may have helped the knights fight the black wyrm, which was a void entity/the shade lord (just theory crafting here) and then our timeline starts of Pale King inevitably causing the Radiance to take over Hallownest, and the king needing to bring a being powerful enough to defeat her but also not let it manifest its TRUE FORM hence the creation of vessels to contain the void, something he knows what is capable of from personal experience in the battle. even though its just a statue of the head of the Shade Lord in kings pass, what if it was its actual gravesight, which is why the Fury of the Fallen is there, and the void over time seeped back into its Ancient civilization. because its mentioned by Salubra that charms can be made by bugs in their last moments. (paraphrasing)
I mean the Pale Wyrm left its own molt so why can't the Black Wyrm???
and Id be a pretty pissed off void being to get my butt whooped by something Pale.
but that's just my little creative thought bubble on the idea.

[GoulactiX]

Did anyone actually test whether the shade attacks you after you get the void heart or whatever that endgame collectible is called ?

[Boksha]

Originalmente postado por GoulactiX:

Did anyone actually test whether the shade attacks you after you get the void heart or whatever that endgame collectible is called ?

I wouldn't be mentioning it if I hadn't seen it myself.

[GoulactiX]

Originalmente postado por Boksha:

Originalmente postado por GoulactiX:

Did anyone actually test whether the shade attacks you after you get the void heart or whatever that endgame collectible is called ?

I wouldn't be mentioning it if I hadn't seen it myself.

Meaning.......it is docile ?

[kanna]

Originalmente postado por GoulactiX:

Originalmente postado por Boksha:

I wouldn't be mentioning it if I hadn't seen it myself.

Meaning.......it is docile ?

Get Void Heart and try it yourself (though if it's your first playthrough, I recommend watching the first ending before you get it). It's fun watching people get to that point in Let's Plays and seeing how long it takes them to notice. :')

[GoulactiX]

If we are already talking about gameplay/lore explanations...how come the dead vessel near the first Hornet fight and the dead vessel in the corrupted kin boss fight (I think) presumably died for good but the knight never dies...he just leaves a part of his shade behind...do their shades teleport to the abyss instead?

[SageKyd]

Originalmente postado por GoulactiX:

If we are already talking about gameplay/lore explanations...how come the dead vessel near the first Hornet fight and the dead vessel in the corrupted kin boss fight (I think) presumably died for good but the knight never dies...he just leaves a part of his shade behind...do their shades teleport to the abyss instead?

well for one, hornet was standing over that first vessel you see (the one we get the Dash from), so maybe she prevented it from recovering its shade, as she refers to our Knight as Ghost and perhaps calls all the vessels ghosts considering our shades are pretty much just void "ghosts". secondly, broken vessel, was already dead prior and its possible that it didnt retrieve its shade because it may have been stuck on the other side of the ancient basin. and as we know if you "die two times" your shade pretty much vanishes and then as far as we know our knight at least will just have another shade. BUT you defeating Lost Kin in the Dream battle imo is also another way of having prevented them from retrieving their shade, but to put all that to the side for a moment, Broken Vessel before the fight, is taken over by the little infection bugs so perhaps Broken Vessel fight was the Radiance lashing out at the Knight through means of a vessel infected. and after having defeated it the first time, Lost Kin/Broken Vessel reached out for its sibling. to me that would make a fair bit of sense. but thats just my thoughts on it.

[kanna]

Originalmente postado por GoulactiX:

If we are already talking about gameplay/lore explanations...how come the dead vessel near the first Hornet fight and the dead vessel in the corrupted kin boss fight (I think) presumably died for good but the knight never dies...he just leaves a part of his shade behind...do their shades teleport to the abyss instead?

Have we ever seen another vessel die? I think the simplest in-lore explanation is that those vessels were destroyed and the mini-void beings within them, having successfully freed themselves, simply returned to the Abyss.

[Boksha]

I'm also pretty sure only two (near) perfect vessels were ever created. Any vessel you see outside of the obvious two is going to be a highly imperfect being, and binding the Void to the bug around it may have failed entirely. Perhaps even the initial birth resulting in nothing but a bug-shaped shade (that sticks around in the birthplace) and a very confused mouthless regular bug (that may have slipped out of the birthplace somehow).

[kanna]

Originalmente postado por Boksha:

I'm also pretty sure only two (near) perfect vessels were ever created. Any vessel you see outside of the obvious two is going to be a highly imperfect being, and binding the Void to the bug around it may have failed entirely. Perhaps even the initial birth resulting in nothing but a bug-shaped shade (that sticks around in the birthplace) and a very confused mouthless regular bug (that may have slipped out of the birthplace somehow).

Could this be an explanation for ?

[Boksha]

Originalmente postado por kanna:

Could this be an explanation for :zote:?

That... hadn't even occurred to me. Maybe not though, since he obviously does have a mouth, and apparently has a home outside of Hallownest.