Pure Vessel is Pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[John Stellarum]

Seriously, how in the void is anyone supposed to beat this thing without modifying the game's code? I'm lucky if I can stun it once, I never have an opportunity to heal otherwise, it SPAMS ATTACKS, and it seems to constantly appear right on top of me. Oh, and it deals 2 masks of damage with EVERY HIT, even with no added difficulty!

Is there some secret charm combination that makes me invincible against this specific boss? Because I see no way of being able to defeat it otherwise.

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

You will manage one day, I believe in you. I have a great problem with this boss as well.

Please try to avoid using spoilers in the titles and posts in General Discussions subforum. New players who don't appreciate spoilers browsing General Discussions will be grateful. Use vague statements, spoiler tags or post in Spoiler Discussions instead.

[Plumber]

Unmarked moveset spoilers ahead

It’s actually my favorite boss in the game; every attack has an answer, and depending on your positioning and whether your dash is on cd, you have to make concessions or use a dive for iframes. No whaling on him without dash up in the event he counters/tripleslashes; never jump before he does something or you’ll get clipped by projectiles or pillars; be liberal with spells since you can only heal one mask per stagger anyway. Lot of things you have to keep in mind at once, but also some good opportunities for damage once you get a grip; the fight actually gets easier the further you go because the new moves have huge openings, especially if you take Steady Body or are smart with dives. Simultaneously less predictable than NKG but significantly more involved because of the freedom in how you answer to each attack.

If you want to just clear and don’t care about how fancily you do it, here’s the safe way:
1 - never jump or waste your iframes until you know what he’s doing or you plan to dive anyway.
2 - jump the charge.
3 - dash through the triple slash.
4 - Don’t attack him during the pillars if you’re not pogoing or using Steady Body; you’ll get pushed into a pillar.
5 - Dive the explosions and dash it for good measure if you’re not confident. This is one of the moves you should learn to counter because of the extreme rewards for doing so, like NKG’s bats and pillars.
6 - Tendrils are free damage, but be mindful of your dash cd if you spend it moving in.
7 - DO NOT keep attacking him once your turn ends without dash cd up because he CAN counter you and the only way you’re avoiding it is with dash iframes

The winning P5 loadout I used was Quickslash + Strength + Mark of Pride + Steady Body + Grubsong, but I play aggressively and it’s probably easier to swap Strength for Shaman Stone.

[Perseus]

Originally posted by Plumber:

Unmarked moveset spoilers ahead

Why unmarked? In the event OP doesn't want to know it, that's going to make it more difficult for them to navigate this topic.

[Plumber]

because the op obviously wants to know it given the topic of the thread so it’s more legible as is; it’s just a cursory advisory for anyone else stumbling into the thread

[kanna]

It's a very patterned fight, and so very doable once you adjust to the speed of it. Also, don't let anyone tell you there's only one way to do this fight. Like most fights in the game, there are many.

As long as you're problem solving your best way to handle each attack as they come up (i.e. learning from each attempt and not just doing the same thing over and over), and as long as you're watching and reacting to each attack (and not trying to act first), you'll get there.

It also pays to know how to pogo stationary or moving targets, though that's not required to be able to do the fight hitless. For example, when PV appears above me, I just jump to the side and double jump over and on top of them as they come down. Then I can pogo 1-2 times and finish it off with a quick Descending Dark. The blades stabbing up from the ground won't hit you if you're directly above PV's head. If you don't want to do that, then just dash in the opposite direction to the one PV is facing (i.e. "through" the path of its downward dive), and you should be in a safe-ish spot when the blades come up.

Make sure to max out your damage with charms like Strength for nail hits and Shaman Stone for spells (I recommend getting used to using Descending Dark at the right moments to both do damage and for the invincibility frames.

Originally posted by Plumber:

because the op obviously wants to know it given the topic of the thread so it’s more legible as is; it’s just a cursory advisory for anyone else stumbling into the thread

Until you know how much someone wants revealed about a fight (or other topic), it's probably best to just ask them how much of the fight they've seen, while covering whatever they've revealed so far only. (Then you don't have to spend time typing out how to handle parts of it they might not have seen and had a chance to try working out on their own yet.) If you still want to cover anything beyond that, then spoiler tags are easy to use.

Incidentally, your post is the first time I've seen anyone say *not* to jump just before PV attacks. It's possible that might not work for everyone, but jumping as PV is about to attack is one of the most common pieces of advice out there about this fight (because every attack of PV's is either more easily handled from the air or it doesn't make a difference if you're in the air or on the ground).

[6362 SPKn]

mad cause bad

[Plumber]

it’s a super endgame fight and a blatant call for help where OP is struggling to enjoy any aspect of it at all, I didn’t think it mattered how much was spoiled given the context as written above.

I have more consistent success dashing through his attacks with exception of the charge than trying to jump over them, but yes, jumping diagonally away from your problems is a pretty safe thing. I don’t like doing it because fine-tuning your doublejump is more finicky than just timing my initial jump correctly, especially if I’m trying to be conservative with dashes.

Jumping immediately stuffs his triple slash and can be confirmed into a doublejump over the pillars like you’ve written, but you get a lot more value with a lot less platforming if you just play around iframes; several free nail swings if using the charms I mentioned above rather than a pogo or two at the mercy of the nasty tail end of his swings. I have no doubt jumping is ultimately the most consistent approach for a hitless run once you’ve practiced it. Making your punishes “free” removes the human element of error in casual play, though, and you can still afford to screw up 5 or 6 times if you’re maxed out and heal once per stagger.

Maybe I’m just spoiled by Quick Slash giving me more dive ammo than I can even waste and Steady Body letting me stand next to him during the ground pillars and do a quarter of his health in nail spam lol

edit: here’s proof of concept where someone arbitrarily avoids jumping at all, and the fringe case outlined in his desc (bad news if he goes into a triple slash right from a charge) can be solved in casual play by simply jumping the charge as we are free from such scary constraints https://youtu.be/EUR1W86binI

[tintingaroo]

"how in the void" - I like it :)

[kanna]

Originally posted by Plumber:

it’s a super endgame fight and a blatant call for help where OP is struggling to enjoy any aspect of it at all, I didn’t think it mattered how much was spoiled given the context as written above.

I used to eagerly post lots of unrequested details on how to tackle a boss too, but it became clear to me eventually that a lot of players like OP (not all of them of course, but most of the ones who make posts like this in various forums when they get stuck) still might want the chance to figure out some things on their own.

Earlier you said you wrote your that way for people who happen to come into the thread (perhaps looking for advice, after already being aware of the title). Do they no longer matter?

I have more consistent success dashing through his attacks with exception of the charge than trying to jump over them, but yes, jumping diagonally away from your problems is a pretty safe thing. I don’t like doing it because fine-tuning your doublejump is more finicky than just timing my initial jump correctly, especially if I’m trying to be conservative with dashes.

Actually, I was under the impression most people dash through the downward stabbing attack, regardless of whether they're on the ground or in the air, once they see PV above them.That's what all the guide videos I remember would say to do, what multiple people have suggested on here, and I've seen a couple of people on here talk about doing it that way. Shadow Dashing is almost required (but not quite).

Personally I hate any movement that takes me away from the boss when I could be attacking them, so as soon as I saw a certain speedrunner doing the jump around the dive, then pogo and D-Dark approach a while back, I stopped dashing for that attack, and picked this method up, because it's a lot more fun for me.

Based on your post, your preferred playstyle is to spam the nail, and you don't like platforming. That's a popular playstyle for sure, but there are also those who like more variety and who do enjoy platforming challenges. I think it's nice to leave some room for additional play styles so people can get creative and mix and match approaches.

I'm sure people will find the video entertaining (I used to watch a lot of CrankyTemplar challenge vids myself), but it's not like anyone needs "proof" Shadow dashes can work. They just involve additional downtime and for people new to this fight who haven't built up their speed, they run the risk of exposing themselves to the next attack. That's why CrankyTemplar's vid is a challenge, after all.

Déjà vu, by the way. I remember a discussion similar to this before, except the person was able to complete the fight and just wanted to take less hits while employing SharpShadow. I'd argue this person's way was harder than CrankyTemplar's challenge.

Originally posted by tintingaroo:

"how in the void" - I like it :)

Yeah, I liked that too. :')

But @OP: I forgot to ask that as requested in the first reply above, you please remove the boss name from the title. It's a lot of fun to try to guess at who the boss of the 4th pantheon is going to be before you get there. Seeing the name in advance takes that fun away for a lot of people who can't avoid thread titles in the topic list. Please consider changing it to "PV," "P4 Boss," or "That One Boss," or something else similarly vague.

[Plumber]

“Do they no longer matter?”
Well, that’s not a very nice thing to vaguely insinuate of me. I thought the first warning was sufficient since it was the first post that actually responded to the OP and thus set the stage for the rest of the discussion. Worrying about it now is meaningless, chronologically speaking. That being said, if the OP edits their posts to make more use of spoilers, so will I. (you know, if the OP ever comes back in the first place - it’s just you and me here…)

I would agree about the scale of answers if there were any questions asked piecemeal, and definitely understand the philosophy of not answering a simple question with an encyclopedic assortment of tangentially related answers.

“your preferred playstyle is to spam the nail and you don’t like platforming”
I will happily and recklessly pogo off of attacks that are completely unnecessary to style on. That Secret Death Course was also fun, camera notwithstanding.

Yes, leaving room for alternative play is exactly something I like about this game’s better bosses, and absolutely something I wrote about in passing in my first post ITT. I am not claiming my way is the only way, only that it requires the least braincells for me in particular.

I have no doubt you’re an excellent player and shared that video not to sway your opinion specifically but to corroborate that the most basic possible approach is actually surprisingly straightforward insofar as it pertains to the OP. Maybe I could have left my posts as nothing more than “play patiently and wait for your turn,” but tying it down to earth feels nicer from an informational standpoint. You are not the OP, after all.

yes, That Charm is very weird and I have respect for anyone that can control it, let alone play around it exclusively if that’s what you’re saying, that’s super cool

[Doctor Fetus]

Originally posted by WolfgangDS:

Seriously, how in the void is anyone supposed to beat this thing without modifying the game's code?

I find it kinda funny how YouTube has hundreds of videos like NKG/Pure Vessel/Absolute Radiance defated no damage, defeated w/o jumping or dashing, defeated no damage five times in row etc. plus some fan-made modded versions of these bosses that are like twice stronger defeated as well, but ppl still complain that these bosses are "unfair and impossible to beat".

[Doctor Fetus]

Here is a video of some dude modifying the game's code to spawn another vessel and fighting two at the same time lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEje04KjU8

[kanna]

Originally posted by Plumber:

“Do they no longer matter?”“your preferred playstyle is to spam the nail and you don’t like platforming”
I will happily and recklessly pogo off of attacks that are completely unnecessary to style on.

OK then. Seems there's a misunderstanding here, so I guess I'll explain where I'm coming from. I'm not sure how it comes across that I might be calling one way better than another, but I assure you I'm not. I specifically used the same words you used because I thought you were okay with them.

I like to celebrate different play styles not only because this game is awesome enough to accommodate so many, but because I remember how much it sucks when the most common advice out there doesn't work for you. Also, I've watched some different let's plays in the past and certain patterns tend to recur when people are new to the game.

I've definitely put a lot of hours in and developed a level of comfort with the game, but I'm far from being some hotshot and I haven't posted any videos of my own. I had a lot of trouble with most bosses when I was new to the game, hence my talk about what's typically said in guide videos. But I definitely found that the typical advice doesn't work for everyone. Everyone has their own play style they're most comfortable with. The sooner people realize what does and doesn't work for them, the easier a time they're going to have with not only their current challenge but future ones too.

I am not claiming my way is the only way, only that it requires the least braincells for me in particular.

Yes, same for my play style. (If I was looking for an extra challenge, I wouldn't be using Strength and Shaman Stone like I always do, lol.) Maybe some/all of posts from people who tried to help will be useful to OP, maybe not. The more options people have, the better... assuming they read our posts.

(A while back, another poster astutely pointed out to some of us that people who haven't asked for help are the least likely to appreciate it. There's a good chance that applies here.)

yes, That Charm is very weird and I have respect for anyone that can control it, let alone play around it exclusively if that’s what you’re saying, that’s super cool

If I remember right, they still used their nail. I vaguely recall the more experienced player who helped them develop that technique was talking about using Steady Body so that they could get more nail swings in.

[Plumber]

Same words but I interpreted it in a negative context instead. i admit i'm on edge because i have been having a string of bad experiences on the steam forums in a variety of games and levels of popularity; i apologize in turn if I came across as hostile in any way

That sort of shared philosophy on strategy and possibility would fit right at home in a certain other game similarly featuring giant insects and golden enemies from another world; fully agree on advice only having power if it can be put to use; ground works for me, air works for you, both work (and that's why it's such a COOL FIGHT gosh darn)

"people who haven't asked for help are the least likely to appreciate it"
this is very true and it feels like an absolute coinflip whether furious, defeated posts like this topic are calls for help or simple venting. The responsible thing to do is to clarify first, but I guess since I'm fresh out of finishing the game I was itching to talk about what I liked. It's satisfying to see people enjoy a game more with knowledge imparted from others.

still cool even if it wasn't a for-the-hell-of-it run that forbade nail usage; steady body is extremely strong for being a 1 notch charm, same with grubsong, and PV is probably one of the best examples in the former's favor

[GrimmToast]

I believe in you and you'll manage to beat him. I was recently stuck on him for about 2 weeks and I was able to beat him 2-3 times but I still couldn't beat him consistently, or in the Pantheon. But I finally managed to do it and it just takes practice and, much like every other boss, learning his moves and rhythm. I used Unbreakable Strength, Mark of Pride, Unbreakable Heart, and Baldur Shell (which I never used until that point). Quick Focus can also be handy too because if you time it right (as he's staggered) you can get off sometimes 3 masks of heals.