Crowsworn is unoriginal

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

The title here is my conclusion after 2 hours of meditation on trying to love the game

No matter how hard I try, I just can't. The game is unoriginal and it's not just the artstyle. From the trailer I already saw the layout of background and foreground is copied, rolling is dashing, the spike downwards hit is also a thing from Hollow Knight and, lastly, the "bench" thing. There's no bench in the trailer but there is a statue... it probably saves your game and works as a respawn point... and as we saw from the trailer you can also equip power ups in there. Basically, charms from Hollow Knight.

When I was learning to draw, I fell into this trap too. I've made a really good artwork, yet I was not proud of it at all because I watched a tutorial. While drawing, I consciously tried to stray away from the picture in the tutorial but I copied all the decisions that were made during the process. When I was done, I realized that copying decisions is a lot more personal than I thought, even though I was drawing a different thing. I was not proud of my work at all, even though I spent many hours on it...

To make your own decisions is frustrating. But it is extremely rewarding and so, so good for the soul... I can tell Crowsworn's devs already put many hours into their game, just like I've put many hours into my artwork but are they proud?

I didn't see any original ideas in the trailer and they are about to launch a Kickstarter...

[Noborus]

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

Publicado originalmente por Avve:

It's dumb enough that you can feel ashamed. You're good.

Oh I feel so ashamed, alright.

You're such a master at making people feel bad about themselves...

I asked you before, but you never answered, and so i'll ask you again: What do you get out of making a post like this? No one is agreeing with you, you're just making yourself look like an idiot. If you don't want to play crowsworn then don't, nobody asked you to in the first place, don't spread your negativity about a promising new game to other people.

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

Publicado originalmente por Coco:

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

Oh I feel so ashamed, alright.

You're such a master at making people feel bad about themselves...

I asked you before, but you never answered, and so i'll ask you again: What do you get out of making a post like this? No one is agreeing with you, you're just making yourself look like an idiot. If you don't want to play crowsworn then don't, nobody asked you to in the first place, don't spread your negativity about a promising new game to other people.

Negativity? If you got a boner after that trailer and my post made you limp back again, then I guess it is negativity...

I promote creativity and originality and I dislike plagiarism

Crowsworn feels uninspired (or perhaps a bit too much inspired...) Meanwhile, this was how Hollow Knight introduced itself a long time ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MQdIqalZg

I remember feeling extremely inspired back then

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

Publicado originalmente por Avve:

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

Oh I feel so ashamed, alright.

You're such a master at making people feel bad about themselves...

People that write such incredibly stupid and ignorant posts deserve to feel bad XD

People who still use "XD" in 2021 should not be allowed to type

[Noborus]

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

I promote creativity and originality and I dislike plagiarism

I don't find Crowsworn inspiring

Meanwhile, this was how Hollow Knight introduced itself a long time ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MQdIqalZg

I felt extremely inspired back then

"Don't judge a book by it's cover" You shouldn't completely dismiss a game because it took inspiration from another game, you should be happy there's another game like hollow knight so i don't know why you find it to be such a big deal. A bunch of people in this discussion have said this already but Hollow Knight isn't an original game, it may have some things never seen before in games but every game was inspired by another game, no matter what you do, no matter what you make, someone has already done something similar to it in the past, and to say you can't do that because someone else already did it is childish.

Let's say you really loved hollow knight, and wanted to make another game like it, but the community shamed you for it and called you unoriginal, you wouldn't like it would you? Why would you be upset about someone liking hollow knight and wanting to make a game similar to it? I really, really, really cannot understand how some people think.

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

Publicado originalmente por Coco:

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

I promote creativity and originality and I dislike plagiarism

I don't find Crowsworn inspiring

Meanwhile, this was how Hollow Knight introduced itself a long time ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10MQdIqalZg

I felt extremely inspired back then

"Don't judge a book by it's cover" A good example of this would be Cyberpunk 2077, boring game that was overhyped, and it was $60. You shouldn't completely dismiss a game because it took inspiration from another game, you should be happy there's another game like hollow knight so i don't know why you find it to be such a big deal. A bunch of people in this discussion have said this already but Hollow Knight isn't an original game, it may have some things never seen before in games but every game was inspired by another game, no matter what you do, no matter what you make, someone has already done something similar to it in the past, and to say you can't do that because someone else already did it is childish.

Let's say you really loved hollow knight, and wanted to make another game like it, but the community shamed you for it and called you original, you wouldn't like it would you? Why would you be upset about someone liking hollow knight and wanting to make a game similar to it? I really, really really cannot understand how some people think.

I think I already explained in the first post how creating an artwork made me feel bad when I didn't make my own decisions

"You should be happy for more games like Hollow Knight"

No. I shouldn't.

I want people to go through the pain and stress of creating original work from deep inside instead of going like: "hey, so that sells well nowadays? hmm, i believe i should be able to do something similar"

Art should be more than just putting in x hours of work

[Zatmaggot]

Can we just leave this nonsense discussion to die?

[Sandro]

Publicado originalmente por Zatmaggot:

Can we just leave this nonsense discussion to die?

I guess we should. OP just blames Crowsworn for the same things what made Hollow Knight great more or less. Ironic, but we can't do anything about it, or maybe he just trolls at this point.

[Citizen of Zozo]

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

Publicado originalmente por Coco:

"Don't judge a book by it's cover" A good example of this would be Cyberpunk 2077, boring game that was overhyped, and it was $60. You shouldn't completely dismiss a game because it took inspiration from another game, you should be happy there's another game like hollow knight so i don't know why you find it to be such a big deal. A bunch of people in this discussion have said this already but Hollow Knight isn't an original game, it may have some things never seen before in games but every game was inspired by another game, no matter what you do, no matter what you make, someone has already done something similar to it in the past, and to say you can't do that because someone else already did it is childish.

Let's say you really loved hollow knight, and wanted to make another game like it, but the community shamed you for it and called you original, you wouldn't like it would you? Why would you be upset about someone liking hollow knight and wanting to make a game similar to it? I really, really really cannot understand how some people think.

I think I already explained in the first post how creating an artwork made me feel bad when I didn't make my own decisions

"You should be happy for more games like Hollow Knight"

No. I shouldn't.

I want people to go through the pain and stress of creating original work from deep inside instead of going like: "hey, so that sells well nowadays? hmm, i believe i should be able to do something similar"

Art should be more than just putting in x hours of work

Well it's pretty clear that you're willing to die on this hill, but I think you're in denial about how original Hollow Knight is. It steals from Metroid in its level design. It steals from Ducktales as that game pioneered a lot of combat platformer conventions. It steals from Megaman with boss patterns and phases. It steals from Dark Souls with its melancholy atmosphere/characters. In fact, its entire plot is almost a play by play rip-off of Dark Souls. Almost. It tweaked a couple things here and there, but the template is pretty darn obvious.
So this high and mighty art elitism you're championing? It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. You're just wrong. Your only real argument is that it 'feels' original. Which is flimsy as heck.

Consider this: You go to the grocery store and decide to buy some apples. There are all kinds of apples. They all taste slightly different. Even if you believed that one apple is as good as any other, they have different prices, so there's still a reason to purchase one over the other. That's how games in the same genre work. Originality doesn't exist. Everything is just a slightly different flavor of something else and everyone is going to have their own preferences. You think Hollow Knight is the best in its genre? Alright. Fair enough. Someone else might decide they like Crowsworn better. It's just a matter of opinion. There's room on the market for similar games.
So why don't you stop being a rube, wise up, and accept that? By your logic, 99% of games shouldn't even exist because they copied elements of another game. Dragon Quest would be the only rpg in existence. Mario would be the only platformer. Can't you see how insane that would be?

[Mist]

Never heard of the game.
Saw a quick video on twitter. I thought "looks a lot like HK, uh."
Saw the trailer later. And well yeah it does. And that's good, I'll gladly take more HK.

[Kagora]

FORGET CROWSWORN THE HOLLOW KNIGHT DEVS ARE SO UNORIGINAL AND UNINSPIRED THEY'RE JUST MAKING ANOTHER HOLLOW KNIGHT WITH CHARACTERS FROM HOLLOW KNIGHT

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1030300/Hollow_Knight_Silksong/

I can't believe they would do this instead of making another ORIGINAL game, how could they be so UNINSPIRED to just do the same thing again, the ONLY thing that matters when making a game is ORIGINALITY, not people wanting more content of the same type or similar game play only ORIGINALITY.
I'm literally crying and shaking right now

[Zakoos]

Publicado originalmente por -:

FORGET CROWSWORN THE HOLLOW KNIGHT DEVS ARE SO UNORIGINAL AND UNINSPIRED THEY'RE JUST MAKING ANOTHER HOLLOW KNIGHT WITH CHARACTERS FROM HOLLOW KNIGHT

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1030300/Hollow_Knight_Silksong/

I can't believe they would do this instead of making another ORIGINAL game, how could they be so UNINSPIRED to just do the same thing again, the ONLY thing that matters when making a game is ORIGINALITY, not people wanting more content of the same type or similar game play only ORIGINALITY.
I'm literally crying and shaking right now

yeah thanks added to wish list, im just wondering when will it release tho :(

[ThironGamma]

That moment when the trailer initially makes you think of Blasphemous instead of Hollow Knight. (especially with that first shot of the trailer)

But to the topic at hand, yes the trailer does show a lot of similarities to Hollow Knight. The most notable is of course the movement and combat mechanics. At its core the mechanics are the same, jumps, dashes, Pogoing of spikes, and so on. I would say that from the trailer, combat seems faster and potentially more combo based where as Hollow Knight combat is more simplistic by comparison. Oh and guns, pretty obvious difference there. And from the trailer it seems like their might be some sort of talent system, but how you progress it specifically is not currently known, so could be similar could be different. But back to the mechanics that are similar... they weren't new when HK did them either. Others have explained about the inspirations Team Cherry took from when designing this game, so I won't go into detail here (This is a long enough post as is), but the genre is called Metroidvania, I think we all know which games used these mechanics.

I would say the art style feels similar yet different enough that it really should not bother anyone. This could be because of the change in aesthetic, as others have pointed out it seems more Bloodborne than bugs. And saying it "copied" it's artwork is not only wrong from a technical perspective (Show me an art asset that is straight copied from HK to prove me wrong), but is also a massive insult to the artist/s themselves who would have worked incredibly hard to make all those original art assets. Yes the art style is similar, that doesn't make Crowsworn look any less amazing art-wise.

And just... the devs are hardly secretive about the Hollow Knight inspiration. And why shouldn't other developers be inspired by Team Cherry's Master piece? Should we never have a game like Hollow Knight again? (Not counting Silksong obviously). If games couldn't take inspiration from other games HK WOULD NOT EXIST! Originality is good, I'm all for it, but originality for originality's sake is the last thing you want to do.

So... maybe... we should wait until the game is released to judge it. Why not be supportive or excited for it? I'm looking forward to it, I'd love more games like Hollow Knight to exist (Silksong when?). And if the game turns out to be bad, then we can call it bad. But don't jump the gun and dismiss the game entirely. And if you don't want to try the game, that's fine, those of us excited for the game can.

But to finish on a more understanding note, I do understand this attitude. It's a phase I think we all go through. We love a game, a tv show, a toy, something, anything. We start to think of it as perfect and can't stand people criticising it. But then we become possessive of it, "It's MY favourite game", "Nothing is better than MY favourite game". So, when something comes along that's similar, the protectiveness begins and we revolt against anything that may challenge our favourite game. Brand loyalty is one hell of a drug... just look at the console wars.

So OP... I get it. I bear you no ill will. I was the same once. Hollow Knight is a near perfect game that we all love (No matter how many times we die to Absolute Radiance), but Crowsworns' existence will never diminish that. If anything it will only strengthen it. So I respectively disagree with you OP, and while Crowsworn may never live up to the same 10/10 standard as Hollow Knight, I still hope it is a thoroughly enjoyable and engaging experience.

TLDR; originality for originality's sake is bad, difference between the games do exist and we've all been in OP's position at one point or another so I get where he's coming from.

[Noborus]

^
Wish OP was as open minded this

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

Publicado originalmente por Citizen of Zozo:

Publicado originalmente por Darius:

I think I already explained in the first post how creating an artwork made me feel bad when I didn't make my own decisions

"You should be happy for more games like Hollow Knight"

No. I shouldn't.

I want people to go through the pain and stress of creating original work from deep inside instead of going like: "hey, so that sells well nowadays? hmm, i believe i should be able to do something similar"

Art should be more than just putting in x hours of work

Well it's pretty clear that you're willing to die on this hill, but I think you're in denial about how original Hollow Knight is. It steals from Metroid in its level design. It steals from Ducktales as that game pioneered a lot of combat platformer conventions. It steals from Megaman with boss patterns and phases. It steals from Dark Souls with its melancholy atmosphere/characters. In fact, its entire plot is almost a play by play rip-off of Dark Souls. Almost. It tweaked a couple things here and there, but the template is pretty darn obvious.
So this high and mighty art elitism you're championing? It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. You're just wrong. Your only real argument is that it 'feels' original. Which is flimsy as heck.

Consider this: You go to the grocery store and decide to buy some apples. There are all kinds of apples. They all taste slightly different. Even if you believed that one apple is as good as any other, they have different prices, so there's still a reason to purchase one over the other. That's how games in the same genre work. Originality doesn't exist. Everything is just a slightly different flavor of something else and everyone is going to have their own preferences. You think Hollow Knight is the best in its genre? Alright. Fair enough. Someone else might decide they like Crowsworn better. It's just a matter of opinion. There's room on the market for similar games.
So why don't you stop being a rube, wise up, and accept that? By your logic, 99% of games shouldn't even exist because they copied elements of another game. Dragon Quest would be the only rpg in existence. Mario would be the only platformer. Can't you see how insane that would be?

It's funny how you mentioned at the start of this thread about me not knowing what inspired Hollow Knight, yet you're the one in the wrong. Devs actually said they didn't take inspiration from Dark Souls, lol. The dev hadn't even played Dark Souls before people started comparing HK to it

Also... Ducktales? What are you on about, lol. Did you even read their AMA?

You probably got Metroid right (it's metroidvania, duh) although you did forget Symphony of the Night

Mainly, Hollow Knight drew inspiration from Zelda 2, Link To The Past, Majora's Mask and Faxanadu

You're welcome

[󠀡󠀡 ⁧⁧Darius]

Publicado originalmente por ThironGamma:

That moment when the trailer initially makes you think of Blasphemous instead of Hollow Knight. (especially with that first shot of the trailer)

But to the topic at hand, yes the trailer does show a lot of similarities to Hollow Knight. The most notable is of course the movement and combat mechanics. At its core the mechanics are the same, jumps, dashes, Pogoing of spikes, and so on. I would say that from the trailer, combat seems faster and potentially more combo based where as Hollow Knight combat is more simplistic by comparison. Oh and guns, pretty obvious difference there. And from the trailer it seems like their might be some sort of talent system, but how you progress it specifically is not currently known, so could be similar could be different. But back to the mechanics that are similar... they weren't new when HK did them either. Others have explained about the inspirations Team Cherry took from when designing this game, so I won't go into detail here (This is a long enough post as is), but the genre is called Metroidvania, I think we all know which games used these mechanics.

I would say the art style feels similar yet different enough that it really should not bother anyone. This could be because of the change in aesthetic, as others have pointed out it seems more Bloodborne than bugs. And saying it "copied" it's artwork is not only wrong from a technical perspective (Show me an art asset that is straight copied from HK to prove me wrong), but is also a massive insult to the artist/s themselves who would have worked incredibly hard to make all those original art assets. Yes the art style is similar, that doesn't make Crowsworn look any less amazing art-wise.

And just... the devs are hardly secretive about the Hollow Knight inspiration. And why shouldn't other developers be inspired by Team Cherry's Master piece? Should we never have a game like Hollow Knight again? (Not counting Silksong obviously). If games couldn't take inspiration from other games HK WOULD NOT EXIST! Originality is good, I'm all for it, but originality for originality's sake is the last thing you want to do.

So... maybe... we should wait until the game is released to judge it. Why not be supportive or excited for it? I'm looking forward to it, I'd love more games like Hollow Knight to exist (Silksong when?). And if the game turns out to be bad, then we can call it bad. But don't jump the gun and dismiss the game entirely. And if you don't want to try the game, that's fine, those of us excited for the game can.

But to finish on a more understanding note, I do understand this attitude. It's a phase I think we all go through. We love a game, a tv show, a toy, something, anything. We start to think of it as perfect and can't stand people criticising it. But then we become possessive of it, "It's MY favourite game", "Nothing is better than MY favourite game". So, when something comes along that's similar, the protectiveness begins and we revolt against anything that may challenge our favourite game. Brand loyalty is one hell of a drug... just look at the console wars.

So OP... I get it. I bear you no ill will. I was the same once. Hollow Knight is a near perfect game that we all love (No matter how many times we die to Absolute Radiance), but Crowsworns' existence will never diminish that. If anything it will only strengthen it. So I respectively disagree with you OP, and while Crowsworn may never live up to the same 10/10 standard as Hollow Knight, I still hope it is a thoroughly enjoyable and engaging experience.

TLDR; originality for originality's sake is bad, difference between the games do exist and we've all been in OP's position at one point or another so I get where he's coming from.

Yeah, yeah. Originality is bad now. Such insight.

Crowsworn is not inspired. It's blatant plagiarism. It tried to ride on the success of HK.

They decided to make a metroidvania and copied almost everything from the current most popular one. They'll launch a Kickstarter now and will get a ton of money even though, as they said, so far they've only made like 5% of the content.