Lore-wise, why am I fighting the dream bosses?

[suspicious]

I mean, all of the enemies here (or at least most of them) are good guys turned bad because of the infection. Once I've killed dung defender for example, why do I need to kill him again in his dream? He's already dead, hence, "uninfected"

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

Kill? In a dream? After which you can talk to them again? Some of them, at least. Come on. Are you sure you were even fighting at all? Or just dreaming...

[Boksha]

The Dung Defender is a strange example since you don't kill him and he's very much not dead at any point in the game. Anyway, the question is kind of double-sided. One way to look at it is "why does entering these characters' dreams end in a fight?" and the other is "why am I entering their dreams in the first place?".

For the Dung Defender: you fight him in his dream because that's what he's dreaming of: fighting for his king to save his country. One of the major aspects of his character is the regret of not being able to save his country and friends, which he sees as a personal failing.
It's similar for most other dream bosses: they fight you in their dream because that's what they dream of doing.

As for why you're entering their dreams to fight them to begin with: for the essence, really. More powerful dreams hold more essence, and you need that essence to power the dream nail.

[Lorax]

If you want a lore reason for why the knight decides to fight dream bosses, he is 'honing' the dream nail like the seer told him to.

Also, it seems like when you beat dream bosses, it tends to give them peace, and allow them to move on.

Also you never kill dung defender. He is one of the few bosses who you don't actually kill in the game. Also one of the many enemies not infected.

[kanna]

Originally posted by suspicious:

I mean, all of the enemies here (or at least most of them) are good guys turned bad because of the infection. Once I've killed dung defender for example, why do I need to kill him again in his dream? He's already dead, hence, "uninfected"

As everyone said above, you don't kill Dung Defender ever, and he was never infected.

And you don't have to fight White Defender except to get essence and more lore.

If you have the White Defender fight open then it's too late unfortunately, but you could have talked to him before taking out any of the Dreamers and he would have apologized and explained why he mistakenly thought he should attack you. (Also notice that just like Hornet and the citizens of the Mantis Village, DD never bleeds orange fluid like infected creatures do.)

Each time you enter DD's dream and fight White Defender, you learn a little more about his past serving the Pale King. I like to think that each time you defeat him in the dream, you're helping him let go of his regrets. Beat WD 5 times if you can, then talk to DD afterwards, and decide yourself based on what he says.

Which other Dream Bosses are you unsure about?

[suspicious]

Thank you everyone for the comments!

Originally posted by kanna:

Originally posted by suspicious:

I mean, all of the enemies here (or at least most of them) are good guys turned bad because of the infection. Once I've killed dung defender for example, why do I need to kill him again in his dream? He's already dead, hence, "uninfected"

As everyone said above, you don't kill Dung Defender ever, and he was never infected.

And you don't have to fight White Defender except to get essence and more lore.

If you have the White Defender fight open then it's too late unfortunately, but you could have talked to him before taking out any of the Dreamers and he would have apologized and explained why he mistakenly thought he should attack you. (Also notice that just like Hornet and the citizens of the Mantis Village, DD never bleeds orange fluid like infected creatures do.)

Each time you enter DD's dream and fight White Defender, you learn a little more about his past serving the Pale King. I like to think that each time you defeat him in the dream, you're helping him let go of his regrets. Beat WD 5 times if you can, then talk to DD afterwards, and decide yourself based on what he says.

Which other Dream Bosses are you unsure about?

I mean, ok, you enter their dreams to gather essence - so basically you're on the same morality level as Cobb from Inception? Just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their dreams and fantasies up to gain Essence?

Look at the Soul Master for example. From what I understood from the lore - all those guys from Soul Sanctum were trying to help (in some unmoral ways I'd say, like killing thousands of bugs); but eventually got infected. Then why am I fighting the dream boss Soul Tyrant? Wasn't he a good guy before the infection?

Same goes for Lost Kin, this poor soul is no different than The Knight. Why would I even fight him?

As for the Warrior Dreams, that I can understand, becuase they're always the ones that wish to initiate combat.

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

One thing I learned through over 20 years of reading books, playing games and watching movies, is that some of the things in books/games/movies don't have to make sense to give fun 🙂 Any time I start analyzing other people's imagination too much, I will go insane.

[kanna]

Originally posted by suspicious:

Thank you everyone for the comments!

Originally posted by kanna:

I mean, ok, you enter their dreams to gather essence - so basically you're on the same morality level as Cobb from Inception? Just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ their dreams and fantasies up to gain Essence?

Look at the Soul Master for example. From what I understood from the lore - all those guys from Soul Sanctum were trying to help (in some unmoral ways I'd say, like killing thousands of bugs); but eventually got infected. Then why am I fighting the dream boss Soul Tyrant? Wasn't he a good guy before the infection?

Same goes for Lost Kin, this poor soul is no different than The Knight. Why would I even fight him?

As for the Warrior Dreams, that I can understand, becuase they're always the ones that wish to initiate combat.

Those are some good questions to ask as you're just learning about the game's story while playing through it for the first time! :)

As you uncover the archaeological dig that is this game's story (listening to NPCs, reading lore tablets, reading the Hunter's Journal, Dream Nailing enemies, etc.), here's something to keep in mind: Not every story has a clear cut good guy.

Without getting into spoilers, I'll just say the character we play as has a purpose and may be able to do some good in the world, but that doesn't make the Knight a "good guy."

That said, personally I think Soul Master and the Soul Sanctum people were fooling themselves if they ever thought they were helping anyone by torturing soul and abilities out of other bugs. If you would like some perspective on this, go back and visit the Snail Shaman every time you upgrade one of your spells. Pay attention to what he has to say about his relatives and their magical abilities.

For Lost Kin, there is NO question you are *helping* by ending its life, if it had no other choice than to be controlled by the "unseen force" you may have noticed is mentioned in the Hunter's Journal. That's why there's a brief animation after you win the fight where LK even *nods* to you solemnly (which is kind of like a little "thank you").

And you're right, it's just like the Knight. For me to tell you why would be a spoiler. Just remember the infection is not helping anybody. That's why when you get dialogue from the Dreamers after defeating Hornet and before getting the Dream Nail, they're not all in agreement about what should be done about the plague. So don't feel bad about doing what you can to get rid of it. :)

[Boksha]

Originally posted by suspicious:

Look at the Soul Master for example. From what I understood from the lore - all those guys from Soul Sanctum were trying to help (in some unmoral ways I'd say, like killing thousands of bugs); but eventually got infected. Then why am I fighting the dream boss Soul Tyrant? Wasn't he a good guy before the infection?

Same goes for Lost Kin, this poor soul is no different than The Knight. Why would I even fight him?

As you already noticed, these characters are already dead by the time you enter their dreams. Assuming they still have some senses left though, maybe you can think of it this way: did these characters seem happy while they were still alive? They were fully consumed by the infection, which is basically like living in a permanent nightmare. Both the Soul Master/Tyrant and Lost Kin failed in their missions (using Soul to stop the infection for the former, and containing the infection for the latter), and in the case of the Soul Tyrant, we know from his final dialogue his failure was eating at him. Lost Kin has no ability to speak, but after his defeat, he bows to you and willingly tags along. Absorbing their essence might be the equivalent of finally putting their spirits to rest.

[Jith03]

You are exploring the sewers of Hallownest, when you hear someone challenging you to honorable combat. You follow the voice until you're in a brown arena. You feel the ground rumbling and then, seemingly out of nowhere, this giant, red insect leaps out, yelling "DAA-FUUUNDAAA!" As he bellows, you fall backwards, thinking "OH ♥♥♥♥! I'm in serious trouble now.". The red bug dives underground, seemingly warping anywhere he pleases. He also coalesces the material of the arena into balls to chuck at you with terrifying accuracy. Eventually, you catch onto his tactics. Upon dealing the final blow, you smell something foul as the red bug releases a giant fart, yelling "TEAM ROCKET BLASTS OFF AGAIN", landing into his own pile of brown stuff.