Trials of the Fool (spoilers)

[Barney Nuphar]

I found something called the Trial of the Fool or something like that. I spent a couple of hours on it, and I can consistently reach the dudes with homing missiles, with the ground covered with spikes. Any tips to beat these ? It usually takes me something like 5 or 6 minutes to beat the previous "waves", and it's starting to piss me off that I have to go through all the previous waves every time just to practice the one I'm stuck on, so ... I'm seeking for advices (just keep in mind that I haven't unlocked the double jump yet, and my current nail is the "lvl 3" one, the one that required 2 pale ore to unlock. Some people might tell me to wait to get more max hp / charms / nail upgrades to beat it, but I really want to beat it now)

Thanks for your time !

[Noborus]

Whenever you have trouble with something in this game watch a speedrun of someone doing it, in this case you could watch a Zote%, 112% or all achievements speedrun.
Charms i'd recommend are Nailmaster's Glory (nail arts are insanely good for collo) Mark Of Pride, Shaman Stone, Unbreakable Strength/Heart, and Quick Slash. You can't use all of these so pick a select few that you are comfortable with using.

[Noborus]

And i don't know if you have all the spells yet, if not you should get a maxed out nail and all the upgraded spells. trial of the fool is endgame content, the first 2 you should do right away but leave trial of the fool for last, all it gives is geo and an achievement, you don't need it for any progression.

[kanna]

There is not much reward to Trial of the Fool other than 1% completion and some geo. Save it for when you have full upgrades (masks, spells, nail) if you don't already. Other than that, there are some really good guides on Youtube for Colo trials.

The main things to remember are to save a slow enemy to get soul off of at the end of each wave, preferably using the Dream Nail with Dream Wielder charm. Use nail arts (optional: Nailmaster's Glory) and spells (must have: Shaman Stone) to take out annoying flying enemies like Primal Aspids *as soon as they spawn* so they don't get a chance to fire at you.

[Barney Nuphar]

Thanks for your time, but that's not the answer I was looking for ... I don't care about having better stats / waiting until late game to beat this. I just wanted to know more about how to position my character to face a specific "wave". I'll check the speedrun videos, these might actually help. Currently, I can beat something like 60% of the trial, until the homing missiles wave, and I'm pretty sure I'll clear it eventually with my current upgrades / abilities. Going through this trial when I'll have more max health and more damage won't feel like an achievement to me. Also, the "there's nothing to gain from doing it" ... it's a videogame, I'm not looking for "loot" or any kind of "virtual rewards". I just want to experience this at its full extent.

Originally posted by kanna:

There is not much reward to Trial of the Fool other than 1% completion and some geo. Save it for when you have full upgrades (masks, spells, nail) if you don't already. Other than that, there are some really good guides on Youtube for Colo trials.

The main things to remember are to save a slow enemy to get soul off of at the end of each wave, preferably using the Dream Nail with Dream Wielder charm. Use nail arts (optional: Nailmaster's Glory) and spells (must have: Shaman Stone) to take out annoying flying enemies like Primal Aspids *as soon as they spawn* so they don't get a chance to fire at you.

Regarding this, I've seen so many people give that advice but ... really, you don't need to use the dream nail at all. After each wave, just by hitting the ennemies you'll get enough soul to heal after each wave, so I don't want to waste a charm slot on smth like that. Perhaps because I don't use the spells at all, and I can still consistently clear the content until the point I mentionned before without issues.
That's exactly why I don't want to wait before clearing this trial : clearing by just spamming spells seems like "cheating", it would be really too easy to clear it like that, it would allow you to just burst through the waves without actually understanding where to position yourself and how to fully exploit the animations of the ennemies.

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

Use Nail Arts and Spells (Howling Wraiths or Shade Soul) for the Soul Twisters (I assume those are the ones you are talking about?). You can use Shade Cloak to avoid the projectiles. The projectiles are destroyed by obstacles.
Volt Twisters are weak to nail-bouncing, Howling Wraiths and Great Slash.

If you feel your platforming skills are not enough, it might be a good time to get at least two endings on your save file to practice those skills first before taking on the Trial of the Fool. This will help a lot.

The charm setup depends on your playstyle, really. I need a lot of soul gain and healing, so I prioritized the charms for that. Also, getting fully upgraded + double jump for this Trial of the Fool is almost mandatory to get a chance at this, especially at first playthrough.

The name of the Trial is a hint that the developers wish the player to take. But if you don't want to take the hint, then good luck and I hope you succeed!

[Perseus]

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR:

You can use Shade Cloak

Spoilers.

[Barney Nuphar]

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR:

The name of the Trial is a hint that the developers wish the player to take. But if you don't want to take the hint, then good luck and I hope you succeed!

I know, but I'm such a fool :'(

[kanna]

The suggestion of the Dream Nail was obviously optional, it just makes the Dream Nail a whole lot better at the bargain price of one notch.

By "homing missiles" section, I have been assuming you're referring to the first time you see Primal Aspids, Mantis Petra, or maybe Volt Twisters during the Trial. Do you mean something else? At least two of the above appear in multiple waves so it's hard to be sure what you're talking about.

Many newer players that get stuck tend to have forgotten about spells, but this is the first time I've seen someone call spells "cheating." In what way is using one of the main kinds of abilities, which is accounted for in every aspect of this game's design "cheating" and not just plain good strategy? XD

How do you know if you're 60% of the way through the Trial? Did you look up the number of waves on the wiki without peeking ahead, or did you spoil yourself on parts of the Trial you haven't even seen yet? The latter could be considered cheating.

Seems to me it would be common sense not to let projectile spitting/emanating enemies gang up on you if you aren't experienced enough with movement in this game to handle everything with your nail only, especially if you don't even have all of the movement abilities.

If you go in with limited equipment and abilities and if you choose to ignore the typical strategies more experienced players usually suggest to first time players, it's probably just going to take a while for you to finish this challenge, since you have to not only learn each wave you need to strategize for, but you face the additional completely unnecessary challenge of learning to do that with low equipment. I'm sure you'll get it eventually if you want to camp out there, but I know I wouldn't enjoy the grinding if I were in your shoes.

If you learn when to use and how to get the most out of all of the abilities and equipment this game is designed to be played with, you get more customizability, more strategy options, and flexibility for the greater challenges to come. If you don't, what you get is a limited range of experience to carry forward after you're done.

*edited* to cover possible enemy name spoiler

[Barney Nuphar]

I just checked how a video guide, and stopped at the part I was stuck at, then looked at the time bar, and noticed it was at around 60% of the video, so ... no cheating on my part ;) And I probably didn't explain properly : I don't want to use the spells because this fight, in my opinion, is much more interesting if you don't just blast the ranged ennemies with one spell. Also, Primal Aspids and Mantis Petra do not send "homing" missiles so I don't know why you think I was talking about these .. I don't know the names of the monsters I'm talking about but they kinda look like Soul Tyrant. Also, I got more practice since last time, and even without unlocking the double jump (unfortunately the stream that made me want to play this game spoiled me that feature) and without using spells at all, and without a fully upgraded nail I can go past the Soul Tyrant-like monsters so ... It's doable, and that's my current objective

[Barney Nuphar]

Also, about the use of spells : Dark Souls 2 had the same "issue" at some point. Some spells made the game and even some bosses ridiculously easy. But when playing a video game, I don't want to just beat it, I want to have a taste of what the game has to offer in terms of challenge. I shouldn't have used the term "cheating", I just think that these spells are not necessary for this fight, and make it much, much less interesting.

[Noborus]

Even with all the upgrades it's still not that easy, but since you choose to do it without them, there isn't much i can help you with. You'll have to overcome the challenge independently, i already gave you my advice and i can understand wanting to do it without all the spells but you can't really ask other people to help you with that, i'm pretty sure most of us will say get more abilities. It is nice to see someone who doesn't take the easy way through everything for a change, i know you can beat it soon.

Besides that, all i can say is good luck, you'll get it if you try enough!

[MADE IN IRON]

Originally posted by Barney Nuphar:

Also, about the use of spells : Dark Souls 2 had the same "issue" at some point. Some spells made the game and even some bosses ridiculously easy. But when playing a video game, I don't want to just beat it, I want to have a taste of what the game has to offer in terms of challenge. I shouldn't have used the term "cheating", I just think that these spells are not necessary for this fight, and make it much, much less interesting.

I think spells use is something more about playstile. Some people feels comfortable using them, some people don't. It's ok not to use them if you feel they make the game too easy.

You can do the trials any time you want. So if it's because of the challenge, you can set all the "home rules" you want before doing it. Maybe you can try to beat it once at "full power" and then repeat it restraining yourself anyway you want.

I guess you'll have fun at the pantheon with the bindings.

[Barney Nuphar]

Originally posted by MADE IN IRON:

Originally posted by Barney Nuphar:

You can do the trials any time you want. So if it's because of the challenge, you can set all the "home rules" you want before doing it. Maybe you can try to beat it once at "full power" and then repeat it restraining yourself anyway you want.

Actually I'm a bit afraid that restricting myself later will be difficult. For example, if I upgrade my nail, I can't go back right ? Same with max hp, I feel like if I don't beat the Trial of the Fools now, I'd be missing on a really interesting experience.
It's a bit like the "first" boss in Dark Souls 1, the one that you encounter when you don't have any weapons yet. The game wants you to run away through a door and come back later with better gear, but a lot of people, including me, just spend 20 - 25 minutes hitting the boss with bare hands, while dodging his attacks because 2 or 3 hits are enough to kill and there's no way to recover.

[Noborus]

Originally posted by Barney Nuphar:

Originally posted by MADE IN IRON:

Actually I'm a bit afraid that restricting myself later will be difficult. For example, if I upgrade my nail, I can't go back right ? Same with max hp, I feel like if I don't beat the Trial of the Fools now, I'd be missing on a really interesting experience.
It's a bit like the "first" boss in Dark Souls 1, the one that you encounter when you don't have any weapons yet. The game wants you to run away through a door and come back later with better gear, but a lot of people, including me, just spend 20 - 25 minutes hitting the boss with bare hands, while dodging his attacks because 2 or 3 hits are enough to kill and there's no way to recover.

You accidentally typed in spoilers :D
Navigate to C:\Users\%UserProfile%\AppData\LocalLow\Team Cherry\Hollow Knight and copy the current user#.dat file, if the game you have is saved in the first save slot, then it'll be user1.dat etc. After you find it copy the .dat file to another folder temporarily and change the number to user2, user3 or user4 depending which save slot you want it to be in and then move it back into the Hollow Knight folder and you're good to go.
Basically what that does it just copies your save file so you can progress and come back to it later after you've visited the harder content and improved.

Uh- I have no idea why i did the same thing but i guess it's bugged.

[Barney Nuphar]

Originally posted by Coco:

Originally posted by Barney Nuphar:

You accidentally typed in spoilers :D
Navigate to C:\Users\%UserProfile%\AppData\LocalLow\Team Cherry\Hollow Knight and copy the current user#.dat file, if the game you have is saved in the first save slot, then it'll be user1.dat etc. After you find it copy the .dat file to another folder temporarily and change the number to user2, user3 or user 4 depending which save slot you want it to be in and then move it back into the Hollow Knight folder and you're good to go.
Basically what that does it just copies your save file so you can progress and come back to it later after you've visited the harder content and improved.

Argh I'm not good with the editing things on steam, sorry for the spoilers. Thanks for the trick though ! Is that what speedrunners use to practice specific segments ?