How is this even considered a souls like?

[Zachshock]

This game is a 2D platformer ( I don't recall Dark Souls being a 2D platformer, comparing this game to Dark Souls is like game journalists comparing Cuphead to Dark Souls ) other than I heard there are no rpg mechanics ( no builds, just one weapon, no stats, etc ).

[origamiswami]

It's kind of an exaggeration, I agree. I think the comparison is because of the mechanic where you die and respawn at the last save point, then have to go back to where you died and pick up your currency or else lose it all if you die again. Plus the gloomy atmosphere, highly cryptic and visual storytelling, the setting of a ruined once-great kingdom, and a reputation for difficult boss fights.

I'd classify it as a metroidvania game with a few soulslike elements in it.

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

Originally posted by Zachshock:

other than I heard there are no rpg mechanics ( no builds, just one weapon, no stats, etc ).

The truth is most likely never black and white. There are some RPG mechanics/elements in this game, like you can have different charm builds, combinations and styles of playing. NPCs have different reactions/dialogue after or before doing certain things. Weapon is only one, but it can be upgraded (leveled up) and in one case add one new effect to it. There are several skills and spells, spells can be upgraded (leveled up). There are multiple endings. There is generally lots of dialogue in this game as well.

The fact that there is no character level, XP or stats stated directly to the player doesn't mean that there are no RPG elements at all.

As for labelling this as souls-like, I generally don't agree with this too much. But the truth, like with RPG elements, is most likely never black and white. There are probably some souls-like elements that some people see in Hollow Knight. And thus they added this to tags.

I try to keep in mind that all this is totally subjective anyway.

[GekkooNTH]

Originally posted by Zachshock:

This game is a 2D platformer ( I don't recall Dark Souls being a 2D platformer, comparing this game to Dark Souls is like game journalists comparing Cuphead to Dark Souls ) other than I heard there are no rpg mechanics ( no builds, just one weapon, no stats, etc ).

You know soul-like is for games that have the elements that make up the name of the dark souls series, not to define it as another Dark souls

[🉑 rezno[R].technology]

Exactly! Souls-like is not the same as Dark Souls-clone. Some elements may be similar, depending on how a person interprets both games. It's largely individual.

Both Hollow Knight and Dark Souls may have drawn inspirations from similar sources, according to Team Cherry interview, if I remember correctly what they said about the comparison.

[roymaster45]

Originally posted by origamiswami:

Plus the gloomy atmosphere, highly cryptic and visual storytelling, the setting of a ruined once-great kingdom, and a reputation for difficult boss fights.

This. Most of the "Souls-like" or "Souls-esque" elements are in the style of storytelling, the setting and tone of the game, etc.

In terms of just gameplay, there's not too many similarities or overlap beyond the boss difficulty (which isn't exclusive to Soulsborne) and the "get your lost currency back" mechanic.

[Boksha]

Note: tags are added by players, and many players (and people in general) are just absolutely terrible with genres. They'll play a couple games, see another game that has one or two elements that are kinda similar and go "Oh yeah, same genre", and even name the new "genre" after the games they played, even though those in no way invented those elements. It's dumb.

[Hotel Security]

Yeah, people slap "soulslike" on any game that borrows the concept of losing something upon death that you have to retrieve...I've seen the same with Blasphemous. It's like when people say a game is "an RPG" because it has leveling.

Having one element of a genre does not mean your game becomes that genre.

Note: tags are added by players, and many players (and people in general) are just absolutely terrible with genres.

Ask a group of 20 "what makes a game an RPG?" and you'll get 20 different answers. The title has been butchered and slapped onto so many thing as marketing that no one knows what it means anymore.

[MADE IN IRON]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Note: tags are added by players, and many players (and people in general) are just absolutely terrible with genres. They'll play a couple games, see another game that has one or two elements that are kinda similar and go "Oh yeah, same genre", and even name the new "genre" after the games they played, even though those in no way invented those elements. It's dumb.

This is what I think too.
No point to bother on tags, they might end up being irrelevant to some games.

[Pogo]

Originally posted by 🉑 reznoR.technology:

Exactly! Souls-like is not the same as Dark Souls-clone. Some elements may be similar, depending on how a person interprets both games. It's largely individual.

Both Hollow Knight and Dark Souls may have drawn inspirations from similar sources, according to Team Cherry interview, if I remember correctly what they said about the comparison.

the devs hadnt played any of the souls games when they created HK, except ari had played a little bloodborne which is where he got the heal mechanic idea. Most of their inspiration actually started from Zelda 2

[Heckrum]

im pretty sure its to do with the healing system

[lieutenantkirtar]

The Hollow Knight devs themselves say the game is not inspired by Dark Souls. But probably inspired by some of the same games that Dark Souls took inspiration from.

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Markoth:

Most of their inspiration actually started from Zelda 2

Zelda 2 makes sense. I'm always surprised this game wasn't more based on the Mega Man: Zero/Rockman: Zero series. The swordplay is incredibly similar, ELFs are pretty similar to charms and there's a similar focus on boss fights.

[Nibbie]

It has many clear similarities. Leave geo (souls) behind when you die, lose it if you die again. Progress is mainly between benches (bonfires) that you respawn at when you die. Sitting at a bench (bonfire) refills your health and respawns enemies. You bring materials to a blacksmith to upgrade your weapon. Different spells that can compliment your main weapon. The world is largely interconnected and you unlock new shortcuts as you progress. You usually need to talk to NPCs several times to get all their dialogue. There are wandering NPCs you can meet around the world to progress their quests. Several NPCs move to the main town when you save them. Hard bosses are the highlight of game, with zones otherwise being mostly filled with trash mobs, which can still be dangerous if you aren't on your game. There are multiple endings, depending on how much extra work you did before fighting the final boss. Exploring the ruins of a long-dead kingdom to discover what happened to it and either extend or end its solution to the problem that destroyed it. Generally dark and sombre tone.

Of course, they are still different games with different mechanics, but "hollow knight is 2d and doesn't have levels so it isn't similar to dark souls" doesn't make a lot of sense. I wouldn't really call Hollow Knight a "souls-like" myself, it is a metroidvania first. However, it does have many souls-like aspects, and I wouldn't be opposed to such a classification as extra detail, like "it is a souls-like metroidvania".

[Boksha]

Thanks Nibbie, that explains my point perfectly.

Edit: uhh. It appears your name is censored in posts, but the name itself is not. Huh.

[zorocancor]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Thanks Nibbie, that explains my point perfectly.

Edit: uhh. It appears your name is censored in posts, but the name itself is not. Huh.

Why did you call him a Nibbie? Have some manners