making a boss deal 2 masks of damage is a cheap way of artificially increasing difficulty

[BaconSpider]

change my mind

EDIT: i fell i should clarify as the title isn't entirely accurate to my thoughts on enemies doing more than 1 mask of damage, yes as some people have pointed out most bosses telegragh their attacks meaning you may be able to dodge but most bosses who deal more than 1 mask of damage feel like the devs couldn't think of a way to make the boss more difficult so the just made them hit harder, in some places its fine but most places it is not, but even if its fine its still a cheap way of artificially increasing difficulty

[Miri Ryllis ミリス]

>2 masks of damage

oh you sweet summer child

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by Midouri ミリ:

>2 masks of damage

oh you sweet summer child

that dosen't change thats it's still a cheap way of artificially increasing difficulty

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by kittehoverlord:

When there are non-bosses that deal two face thingies of damage at the very beginning of the game, how is this an issue for you?

where? the only non boss thing i remember doing more then 1 mask of damage is explosions

[ppppppppppp]

Bosses telegraph their moves, just watch a couple of youtube videos and learn how to dodge, it isn't really that hard.

[arceus03]

Originally posted by BaconSpider:

where? the only non boss thing i remember doing more then 1 mask of damage is explosions

Umm.. Flukemunga, Stalking Devout (that creature in Deepnest), and that creature in Resting Grounds that I can't remember its name.

[arceus03]

Originally posted by kittehoverlord:

There is also the Great Husk Sentrys in the City of Tears; I am sure there are many others.

Oh yeah that guy. I usually ignore him so I forgot XD

[SMOOTHIE_KING]

Double damage is needed to halve the effectiveness of charms like thorns.

It does twice your nail damage per activation, and activates the number of times you get hit, so the amount of damage potential it has can be found by multiplying your nail damage times two and then times the number of hits you can take. With heart+Joni's+LB core, you get 20 masks, so that's 21 nail damage, times two, times 19 hits before you die against a normal boss, which equates to 798 damage, almost 800. The Hollow Knight has 1300, and even the beefiest of bosses typically only have between 1500-1600 health. If it werent for double damage halving the number of times thorns activates, it'd be able knocking off half of each bossfight when used in conjunction with health stacking builds, leaving their offensive counterparts in the dust. I mean that's 50-60% of a fight for just one charm notch. Doing 50% more damage with fragile strength only actually removes a third of the fight, which is 11% per notch, or less if you're also using other sources of damage which aren't affected by strength.

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by 「HUSTLE BONES」:

Double damage is needed to halve the effectiveness of charms like thorns.

It does twice your nail damage per activation, and activates the number of times you get hit, so the amount of damage potential it has can be found by multiplying your nail damage times two and then times the number of hits you can take. With heart+Joni's+LB core, you get 20 masks, so that's 21 nail damage, times two, times 19 hits before you die against a normal boss, which equates to 798 damage, almost 800. The Hollow Knight has 1300, and even the beefiest of bosses typically only have between 1500-1600 health. If it werent for double damage halving the number of times thorns activates, it'd be able knocking off half of each bossfight when used in conjunction with health stacking builds, leaving their offensive counterparts in the dust. I mean that's 50-60% of a fight for just one charm notch. Doing 50% more damage with fragile strength only actually removes a third of the fight, which is 11% per notch, or less if you're also using other sources of damage which aren't affected by strength.

but most of the bosses that deal more than 1 mask of damage are to fast to be hit by thorns anyway, but i can still see your point although if that is why the increase the damage then it might just be better to increase the number of notches thorns takes up

EDIT: i didn't know thorns did twice your nail damage, last time i checked it did the same as your nail, did they buff it?

[SMOOTHIE_KING]

Originally posted by BaconSpider:

it might just be better to increase the number of notches thorns takes up

I actually agree and wish it were two. And that'd be a lot better than lowering the damage, since part of the gimmick is the ability to burst mobs. Grubsong on the other hand should just have its effectiveness halved instead of its cost doubled.

Originally posted by BaconSpider:

EDIT: i didn't know thorns did twice your nail damage, last time i checked it did the same as your nail

Pretty sure it's twice unless the wiki is more out of date than I thought.

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by 「HUSTLE BONES」:

Originally posted by BaconSpider:

it might just be better to increase the number of notches thorns takes up

I actually agree and wish it were two. And that'd be a lot better than lowering the damage, since part of the gimmick is the ability to burst mobs. Grubsong on the other hand should just have its effectiveness halved instead of its cost doubled.

i can't remember how grub song worked was it how much damage you took or the amount of times you took damage? if its the former then i think it should just be changed to the later that way you'll get the same amount of soul no matter how much damage the attack does

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by 「HUSTLE BONES」:

Pretty sure it's twice unless the wiki is more out of date than I thought.

just checked the wiki is says it deals 2x but i could've sworn it said it did the same amount of damage as your nail at some point

[SMOOTHIE_KING]

Originally posted by BaconSpider:

i can't remember how grub song worked was it how much damage you took or the amount of times you took damage? if its the former then i think it should just be changed to the later that way you'll get the same amount of soul no matter how much damage the attack does

It's per hit, like thorns, so bosses taking a lot of hits to kill you equals more soul. It recovers 15% of a soul gague per activation, so having just 9 masks plus a lifeblood core can give you 1.8 more full gagues per fight.

With something like soul eater against a boss like the hollow knight, 31 nail strikes is half his health (you won't be doing more than half with your nail if you're casting), so soul eater gets 31 activations. It gives you an extra 8% of a gague per activation (on top of what you'd get without it), so that's 2.48 gagues, about two and a half. Of course, that's with four slots, so per slot that's 62% of a gague per slot, half of what grubsong can give you with just a little extra health and/or time to heal.

[BaconSpider]

Originally posted by 「HUSTLE BONES」:

]
It's per hit, like thorns, so bosses taking a lot of hits to kill you equals more soul. It recovers 15% of a soul gague per activation, so having just 9 masks plus a lifeblood core can give you 1.8 more full gagues per fight.

With something like soul eater against a boss like the hollow knight, 31 nail strikes is half his health (you won't be doing more than half with your nail if you're casting), so soul eater gets 31 activations. It gives you an extra 8% of a gague per activation (on top of what you'd get without it), so that's 2.48 gagues, about two and a half. Of course, that's with four slots, so per slot that's 62% of a gague per slot, half of what grubsong can give you with just a little extra health and/or time to heal.

hmm i can see you point on grubsong needing a nerf, but i'm not sure how'd they do it cus curently it fills one 6th of you soul gauge (15%) and reducing it to one 12th of your gauge
(around 7ish%) seems a little to much, but at the same time if they increase the cost it may be out classed by other charms, mabye something like 1 8th of your gauge would be better but i don't know

[vintran]

It's not artificial difficulty, if anything the tedium and slog in the new boss rush mode should be called artificial difficulty.

It's there so you have to actually know how to dodge and react to boss's attacks to beat it, not just facetanking your way to victory. Even then, you can still facetank some of the bosses that deal 2 masks of damage.

[vintran]

The only other way I can think of to balance this is to increase the bosses' HP. Then the fight will be more about endurance rather than precision.