A change to the pantheons

[Tat011]

So i posted this in one of the discussions and many people agreed, so i'm posting it here in hopes that team cherry sees this, the idea is that benches in the pantheons function like actual benches (saves your game and if you die you respawn there) so people don't have to do it all over, for the people who want it like it is now you can have a bench binding that makes benches act like they do currently.
It's a win-win

[Tat011]

Originally posted by GuiltySte:

How about this, you can save and quit at benches but if you die you have to restart the pantheon

this leaves no one happy, people who don't want to spend an insane ammount of time just to get a chance at a new boss won't like it because it won't fix their problem and the people who want a boss rush won't be happy because since you can save and leave it's no longer a boss rush.

[Tat011]

Originally posted by AuburnRDM:

It is one of the already multiple endings of the game. Is it really fair to call it the true ending? It just seems like a little reward for making it through everything.

It's definitely about skill--endurance is still a skill. Being able to handle the pressure of these bosses is what makes the challenge feel so rewarding. If there's a particular spot you find yourself dying to often, head over to the practice hall until you feel comfortable with the fight.

that's what the binding part is for in my idea, like it how it is? then use the binding, agree with us? don't and have benches respawn you. as i said, it's a win win

[Kanra]

Originally posted by AylsACM:

You say the content is optional but... is it really? In my opinion a challenge that includes one of the endings to the game is nt something to be called optional. Moreover, in the moment that you always get to the part of the 5th pantheon in wich always die it stops being a matter of skill and becomes a matter of time. Your biggest fear figting this enemy stops being "the fate of hallownest is in my hands" and starts being "damn if I die I´ll need 45 minutes to return to this point, boi".

I take it the Mr.Mushroom ending isn't optional either then? Putting that aside, the pantheons are not required to finish the game so as far as that's concerned they're optional. The Path of Pain has an important piece of lore at the end too, but it's still optional.

The only way you can consider them not optional is becase they give completion and achievements. But even then, the 5th pantheon doesn't actually give completion and the way it gives an achievement is the same way the hardest ending pre godmaster gave an achievement. That ending was also supposed to be placed behind difficulty, but the playerbase overcame that rather quickly.

And honestly, I think that's the problem here. It has seriously not been nearly enough time for anyone to judge whether godmaster needs a "nerf" or not. Following this train of thought NKG should've been nerfed down a whole bunch right after he came out. Fast forward to the present and people call him one of the easiest bosses to do without taking damage.

All I'm telling you people is to give it some time. Being impatient and wanting a challenge to be made easier just because you can't get through it within a few days isn't going to make it any better. It's not going to feel rewarding to nerf something down to the point where it can't be called a challenge anymore and then clear it like that. Just give it time.

[Spitfyre37]

Originally posted by AuburnRDM:

It is one of the already multiple endings of the game. Is it really fair to call it the true ending? It just seems like a little reward for making it through everything.

It's definitely about skill--endurance is still a skill. Being able to handle the pressure of these bosses is what makes the challenge feel so rewarding. If there's a particular spot you find yourself dying to often, head over to the practice hall until you feel comfortable with the fight.

A reward for making it through everything should not be something like an ending that leads into the next DLC. A reward should be something like getting an upgraded charm (Nightmare King) or exclusive dialogue (White Defender) or a solid gold display of your skill (Grey Prince).

As for the practice hall, yes. It exists. But it is completely different from actual pantheons. In the pantheons, you have the ever-growing time sink to consider as you fight. I can beat hard bosses, but i should not have to spend 45 minutes per attempt for it to actually matter.

[Spitfyre37]

[quote=Kanra;1736588252417303790
All I'm telling you people is to give it some time. Being impatient and wanting a challenge to be made easier just because you can't get through it within a few days isn't going to make it any better. It's not going to feel rewarding to nerf something down to the point where it can't be called a challenge anymore and then clear it like that. Just give it time. [/quote]

We don't want nerfs! we want to be able to sit at benches and have it save our progress! the difficulty is not the problem, its the time sink! It warps this great display of your combat prowess into a boring chore.

[AuburnRDM]

Originally posted by Spitfyre37:

We don't want nerfs! we want to be able to sit at benches and have it save our progress! the difficulty is not the problem, its the time sink! It warps this great display of your combat prowess into a boring chore.

Adding a bench to save progress in the middle of an endurance run is the definition of a nerf.

[Kanra]

Originally posted by Spitfyre37:

We don't want nerfs! we want to be able to sit at benches and have it save our progress! the difficulty is not the problem, its the time sink! It warps this great display of your combat prowess into a boring chore.

Yeah but, you're missing something here. This is a boss rush. The fact that you have to fight many bosses in a row from start to end like that is part of the challenge. Making you be able to respawn at a bench if you die or quit in the middle of it and come back to the bench would both take away from the challenge significantly. The former essentially makes it no longer a proper boss rush and the latter makes it possible to abuse saving, resulting in the same effect.

[AuburnRDM]

As for leading into the next DLC, I'm sure the DLC itself will open with much more exposition than what was shown in this very short scene.

[yoshi gordo]

Originally posted by Kanra:

Originally posted by AylsACM:

You say the content is optional but... is it really? In my opinion a challenge that includes one of the endings to the game is nt something to be called optional. Moreover, in the moment that you always get to the part of the 5th pantheon in wich always die it stops being a matter of skill and becomes a matter of time. Your biggest fear figting this enemy stops being "the fate of hallownest is in my hands" and starts being "damn if I die I´ll need 45 minutes to return to this point, boi".

I take it the Mr.Mushroom ending isn't optional either then? Putting that aside, the pantheons are not required to finish the game so as far as that's concerned they're optional. The Path of Pain has an important piece of lore at the end too, but it's still optional.

The only way you can consider them not optional is becase they give completion and achievements. But even then, the 5th pantheon doesn't actually give completion and the way it gives an achievement is the same way the hardest ending pre godmaster gave an achievement. That ending was also supposed to be placed behind difficulty, but the playerbase overcame that rather quickly.

And honestly, I think that's the problem here. It has seriously not been nearly enough time for anyone to judge whether godmaster needs a "nerf" or not. Following this train of thought NKG should've been nerfed down a whole bunch right after he came out. Fast forward to the present and people call him one of the easiest bosses to do without taking damage.

All I'm telling you people is to give it some time. Being impatient and wanting a challenge to be made easier just because you can't get through it within a few days isn't going to make it any better. It's not going to feel rewarding to nerf something down to the point where it can't be called a challenge anymore and then clear it like that. Just give it time.

Let me think is not optional if it is needed to fight the hardest boss in the game. NKG was an amazing experience. Getting to absolute radiance isnt at all.
And we are back again with the "its not a boss rush if the benches work". Let me ask you a question: If completing the 3rd patheon unlocks the Godseeker mode, who is just to mess around with the bosses and the pantheons, is it necesary to have an exact same copy of it on the normal game? Wouldn't it be better to have the real boss rush on the new mode and with that bring an more enjoyable way of playing the 5th pantheon to the rest of the players.

P.S I dont think Path of Pain is the same thing. I can go and try path of pain whenever I want, i just have to go there and do it. To try and beat new radiance I have to "farm" repeated bosses.

[Kanra]

Originally posted by AylsACM:

And we are back again with the "its not a boss rush if the benches work". Let me ask you a question: If completing the 3rd patheon unlocks the Godseeker mode, who is just to mess around with the bosses and the pantheons, is it necesary to have an exact same copy of it on the normal game? Wouldn't it be better to have the real boss rush on the new mode and with that bring an more enjoyable way of playing the 5th pantheon to the rest of the players.

That's not the problem here. The new gamemode makes little sense as it is since it doesn't provide anything different from doing it on a 107% file, at least right now. But I wouldn't really mind if that was the case as long as it remained the only way to get the achievement at the very least. And really now, if it's just the ending that you want then there are already videos of it out there. But that doesn't seem to be the concern everyone here is having. It's wanting a challenge to be made easier, and not just wanting to be able to see the ending.

Originally posted by AylsACM:

P.S I dont think Path of Pain is the same thing. I can go and try path of pain whenever I want, i just have to go there and do it. To try and beat new radiance I have to "farm" repeated bosses.

You can practice abrad in the hall of gods if you just want to beat it. If you want to get through the challenge that is beating the 5th pantheon then it makes perfect sense to have it the way it is. As for path of pain, it's similar in terms of having the community complain about it in a similar manner.

[thanna]

Yeah, I'd welcome benches as checkpoints, the fifth pantheon is a pain atm imo. The original challenge could be kept for Godseeker mode, with separate achievements, it would further differentiate the modes.
Also, Radiant Pantheons when?

[Tat011]

Originally posted by Kanra:

Yeah but, you're missing something here. This is a boss rush. The fact that you have to fight many bosses in a row from start to end like that is part of the challenge. Making you be able to respawn at a bench if you die or quit in the middle of it and come back to the bench would both take away from the challenge significantly. The former essentially makes it no longer a proper boss rush and the latter makes it possible to abuse saving, resulting in the same effect.

Originally posted by Tat011:

for the people who want it like it is now you can have a bench binding that makes benches act like they do currently.
It's a win-win

it's optional, don't like it don't use it

[Kanra]

Originally posted by Tat011:

it's optional, don't like it don't use it

I see this is yet another thread that caters to one particular group of people while anyone with a different opinion is bound to get shot down with this kind of attitude, huh? For how much I disliked seeing others get told to "git gud", I'm starting to feel like anyone with this kind of attitude deserves those words.

But I suppose I'll follow your logic on this one and tell you that if you don't like the way the new content is, then don't do it yourself.

[Allalinor]

wait, you haven't even done the 3rd pantheon and are complaining it's too hard?

[TheUncle]

I don't get people who don't understand the fact that it would be OPTIONAL binding.

As in, if you want your bench to not respawn you, that's allowed.

Casuals get a version where they can win, and Elites get a version where they can do a all-or-nothing boss rush.

Who ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ loses here? Godmaster has no tangible rewards, I could watch the freaking ending on YouTube 10 times before someone finishes the PoH once. So there's nothing substantial to be fighting for here. No achievement either. Literally there's close to absolute nothing in rewards.