The final Pantheon is just too much.

[fishy]

I've wasted around 2 hours just to die at Nightmare King Grimm and then have to start everything over. I did Nightmare King Grimm flawlessly multiple times, and the reason why I died is because stamina and pressure. Take it like this, you've just defeated 40 bosses and you're so close to the new final boss, you're so tired and want to stop but you can't because you want to complete the Pantheon, and then you continue and die.

Why are there no checkpoints, Team Cherry? This is just insane, I have to waste 3 more hours just to get Embrace the Void achievement so I can perfect the game. I'm really tired of this and this DLC has been a disappointed after the second Pantheon.

[Jak]

Originally posted by Qunoxic:

I'm done with this DLC. I've just discovered a bug with Hornet 2 that makes her get stuck in a wall. She started spamming the spike attack and throwing her nail at me and I've eventually died because I couldn't reach her.

This bug is supposedly fixed in the latest beta that I'm playing (it's stated in the changelog), but it's not. It's a run killer. From bad RNG to many bugs. This is the worst DLC in the game.

When I read "Im done with this DLC" I was about to congragulate you for 100%ing it, but then continued reading and all I can really say is: OOF. Seriously though that sucks that the bug is still in the game, im guessing multiple things can cause that bug and they only resolved one of them is why they said they fixed it.

[MegaFayeX]

Originally posted by ♂☆DIO☆ ♂:

sit in the bench and copy savefiles. if you die in boss battle just paste savefiles. not sure if it work

Can confirm that you cannot save scum. I tried. D: D: D:

[Kain]

Yeah, i'm done with Pantheon 3 (♥♥♥♥ Grimm boss)

[John Darksoul]

I think this DLC is just meant for people who want a really really difficult challenge. Personally I don't enjoy boss rushing as much, but managed to do 3 pantheons and beat NKG (I rage-banished him in his dlc).

[Spark7979]

Originally posted by Dai6kan:

Why would they change it? You think they tried to design this DLC so everyone and their grandma can easily beat it? And inability of most of the players (me included) to beat it is proof of the "bad design"?

If anything, its the other way around lol.

Originally posted by CeliriaRose:

Then don't play it. It's optional content for challenge enthusiasts designed intentionally to be a long haul challenge.If that's not for you that's fine but that doesn't mean it needs to be fixed so that you can accomplish it.

Not everyone can sit around in their parents houses all day playing games you jerkoffs. Some of us have jobs or studies to attend. Why can't there be checkpoints? It's simple, you don't want a handicap, THEN DONT USE THE CHECKPOINTS. Why does every developer these days make their games ludicrously difficult just for the sake of it. What do you get out of doing this ♥♥♥♥? Bragging rights? Just leave a checkpoint there for those of us who want it, if you don't wanna use it then don't.

[jack shite]

Originally posted by Spark7979:

Not everyone can sit around in their parents houses all day playing games you jerkoffs. Some of us have jobs or studies to attend. Why can't there be checkpoints? It's simple, you don't want a handicap, THEN DONT USE THE CHECKPOINTS. Why does every developer these days make their games ludicrously difficult just for the sake of it. What do you get out of doing this♥♥♥♥♥♥ Bragging rights? Just leave a checkpoint there for those of us who want it, if you don't wanna to use then don't.

Some gaming elists are so full of hubris that they don't want to share the victory spotlight with filthy casuals. They wank themselves to sleep every night knowing they're better at something than someone else.

I do not support nerfing the bosses themselves. I just think there needs to be the options of checkpoints between bosses. I'm even in favor of a separate set of achievments being awarded to those who beat all bosses in a straight rush without a checkpoint. I'd even settle for a separate set of achievments for people like myself who do use checkpoints. This way, everyone in the world knows who beat the boss rush in one sitting vs. those who split it out over several play sessions.

The elists won't settle for that. They're that hardline. It's ridiculous.

[GeminiEclipse]

The average player hasn't beaten Radiance. If you've beaten Radiance, just the normal one, you're not casual. You're not average. You're not above average. You're actually part of the elite.

Even if Pantheon 5 was completely gutted and every hard boss nerfed and saved progression after every boss, a casual or even average player would never be able to complete it.

So stop using the casuals as a reason. They don't even exist on the radar. They still have to beat Radiance.

[Jak]

Originally posted by jack ♥♥♥♥♥:

Originally posted by Spark7979:

Not everyone can sit around in their parents houses all day playing games you jerkoffs. Some of us have jobs or studies to attend. Why can't there be checkpoints? It's simple, you don't want a handicap, THEN DONT USE THE CHECKPOINTS. Why does every developer these days make their games ludicrously difficult just for the sake of it. What do you get out of doing this♥♥♥♥♥♥ Bragging rights? Just leave a checkpoint there for those of us who want it, if you don't wanna to use then don't.

Some gaming elists are so full of hubris that they don't want to share the victory spotlight with filthy casuals. They wank themselves to sleep every night knowing they're better at something than someone else.

I do not support nerfing the bosses themselves. I just think there needs to be the options of checkpoints between bosses. I'm even in favor of a separate set of achievments being awarded to those who beat all bosses in a straight rush without a checkpoint. I'd even settle for a separate set of achievments for people like myself who do use checkpoints. This way, everyone in the world knows who beat the boss rush in one sitting vs. those who split it out over several play sessions.

The elists won't settle for that. They're that hardline. It's ridiculous.

Checkpoints in the pantheons are something that would just make Godmaster so much better for everyone, just have a bench binding and then people who want a challenge can get it and people who arent as good at the game can still complete the final pantheon. As someone who has completed the final pantheon twice now for both endings I can say that it is fun to do the full boss rush, but dying and having to go through every boss again including the easy ones in the beginning is pretty tedious, so benches being checkpoints would just make the experience way more fun and remove all sense of tedium. On the subject of having a seperate achievement for beating pantheons with bench binding I think it would be a great idea to make seperate achievements for beating each pantheon with every binding on.

[jack shite]

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

The average player hasn't beaten Radiance. If you've beaten Radiance, just the normal one, you're not casual. You're not average. You're not above average. You're actually part of the elite.

I've beaten the "normal" Radiance . It was far from easy, but that's a bit different than this. With that series of final boss fights (which is really a four-phase fight), you at least have a bench right outside the boss chamber. I absolutely loathe multi-phase boss fights because I find them excessively tedious, but I dealt with it because of the bench situation.

[Smug Hatterene]

Originally posted by Filthy weeaboo:

Originally posted by jack ♥♥♥♥♥:

Some gaming elists are so full of hubris that they don't want to share the victory spotlight with filthy casuals. They wank themselves to sleep every night knowing they're better at something than someone else.

I do not support nerfing the bosses themselves. I just think there needs to be the options of checkpoints between bosses. I'm even in favor of a separate set of achievments being awarded to those who beat all bosses in a straight rush without a checkpoint. I'd even settle for a separate set of achievments for people like myself who do use checkpoints. This way, everyone in the world knows who beat the boss rush in one sitting vs. those who split it out over several play sessions.

The elists won't settle for that. They're that hardline. It's ridiculous.

Checkpoints in the pantheons are something that would just make Godmaster so much better for everyone, just have a bench binding and then people who want a challenge can get it and people who arent as good at the game can still complete the final pantheon. As someone who has completed the final pantheon twice now for both endings I can say that it is fun to do the full boss rush, but dying and having to go through every boss again including the easy ones in the beginning is pretty tedious, so benches being checkpoints would just make the experience way more fun and remove all sense of tedium. On the subject of having a seperate achievement for beating pantheons with bench binding I think it would be a great idea to make seperate achievements for beating each pantheon with every binding on.

Agreed, having separate achivements and a bench binding would solve the issue at hand. (and put an end to the whining from both camps)

(and if you don't like that statement, cry me a damn river.)

-someone who has yet to beat any Pantheons

[Toni Gorgonzola]

Make like Hornet and "GIT GUD!"

[The Snopingasusual]

Originally posted by GeminiEclipse:

The average player hasn't beaten Radiance. If you've beaten Radiance, just the normal one, you're not casual. You're not average. You're not above average. You're actually part of the elite.

Even if Pantheon 5 was completely gutted and every hard boss nerfed and saved progression after every boss, a casual or even average player would never be able to complete it.

So stop using the casuals as a reason. They don't even exist on the radar. They still have to beat Radiance.

Personally, If I follow your sentance, I'm an elite and I can'tt finish that 5 pantheon.

[TheUncle]

Absolute Radiance though...

So you beat every boss; get to the end, and have to fight that?

That's just a kick in the balls. No one's going to beat that on the first time through.

Legitmately, fighting them is just insane.

[Desticler]

Also, I'm friends with OP, we talk in Discord often, and I just thought I'd point out he did finish 5th pantheon.
He still thinks this pantheon needs a rebalance and final boss is RNGfest.
I don't know why he didn't say that; if you don't believe me he did it check his achievements.

[Mr. Beartato]

Originally posted by Spark7979:

Why does every developer these days make their games ludicrously difficult just for the sake of it.

What? Games like Dark Souls and Hollow Knight got made because a lot of games had gotten comparatively easy to beat, with all the handholding and anti-frustration mechanics (which are generally good changes, by the way - making games in general more accessible is important). Considering how popular these difficult games are, I'd say the market was asking for them. I still think the original Raymann is much harder than anything Hollow Knight throws at you, and that game's way old. In fact, games in the 90s used to have extremely unfair difficulty levels.

HK is almost never that unfair. HK is just in a niche of games who aren't afraid to be reasonably difficult, and that's fine. I don't know why some people here subscribe to the "everyone should be able to 100% everything" mentality, and I don't consider myself an elitist at all. I'd never be able to become a pro cyclist, regardless of how much I trained, and that's fine too. What's so bad about accepting that there's certain things you can't do without practicing more?

I'm personally not a fan of making the benches checkpoints, because I believe it'd change the identity of the content too much. Pantheon 5 does take too long though. Another way of solving that would be removing the v1 bosses and those that pose no challenge. Let's be real, to even reach pantheon 5 you need to be skilled enough that at least 75% of those bosses are not challenging at all.

I like the DLC though, and I think TC did a pretty good job with it - especially with the Beta fixes. It's forced me to actually learn mechanics for certain bosses who I'd just facetank otherwise, and I like that.

Furthermore, the Nailmaster battles and Pure Vessels are excellent. I'm not big on most of the Ascended/v2 bosses, but they are interesting at least. Can't judge Radiance too much yet but I feel like she does RNG-screw you at times.

Ascended collector needs some changes to Primal Asmid behavior though, they should consistently fire at around the same time after actually spawning or something.

Originally posted by Spark7979:

Not everyone can sit around in their parents houses all day playing games you jerkoffs. Some of us have jobs or studies to attend.

Way to strawman. Don't be so needlessly rude. My time's limited too, yet I choose to invest a lot of it into Hollow Knight because it's satisfying to me.

Originally posted by Desticler:

Also, I'm friends with OP, we talk in Discord often, and I just thought I'd point out he did finish 5th pantheon.
He still thinks this pantheon needs a rebalance and final boss is RNGfest.
I don't know why he didn't say that; if you don't believe me he did it check his achievements.

I don't think this even matters. Everyone's opinion here should be just as valuable, regardless of how good you are at Hollow Knight. Gaming's supposed to be a hobby for everyone, anyway, and there should be a way to reduce frustration w/ Pantheon 5 that doesn't change the core identity of the content.