The final Pantheon is just too much.

[fishy]

I've wasted around 2 hours just to die at Nightmare King Grimm and then have to start everything over. I did Nightmare King Grimm flawlessly multiple times, and the reason why I died is because stamina and pressure. Take it like this, you've just defeated 40 bosses and you're so close to the new final boss, you're so tired and want to stop but you can't because you want to complete the Pantheon, and then you continue and die.

Why are there no checkpoints, Team Cherry? This is just insane, I have to waste 3 more hours just to get Embrace the Void achievement so I can perfect the game. I'm really tired of this and this DLC has been a disappointed after the second Pantheon.

[Mr. Beartato]

The bigger problem for me is that about 75% of the stages are completely trivial and uninteresting. Having to do them repeatedly just makes me die on the inside.

[Aydiπ]

I totally agree with you that some bosses relays on RNG like Uumuu. But in my opinion the Collector is pretty easy to defeat actually. He was one of my greatest fears during Steel soul mode but Team Cherry might have nerfed him because i defeat him really easily now...

Like you i want to do the 112% completion with all achievements but this DLC is way too hard. And yet i like hard games and i was really excited about playing it before its release... The first and second pantheons are doable. I spent more than 6 hours (practice + attempts) on the third one and just got access to the fourth one which is at the same level as the third one in my opinion (very very hard).

The Godmaster DLC is designed to be hard, very hard. Just look at the binding propositions when you want to do a Pantheon : Nail (still don't know what this is...), Charm, Soul and Life.... I tried to do the first pantheon with all the bindings (4 health, no charms, 1 focus point at a time). It's just impossible.

I really like Hollow Knight which was my GOTY 2017 but this DLC is getting me frustrated and it's bad. I hope Team Cherry will add a checkpoint at some point of the boss rush.

(I hope you understand my english, there might be some mistakes or misspellings haha)

[Aydiπ]

Originally posted by Mr. Beartato:

The bigger problem for me is that about 75% of the stages are completely trivial and uninteresting.

True. But this is the point: more you practice, "easiest" are bosses because you know their patterns. Except for Zote. Zote is a pain in the butt. I hate Zote. And Nightmare King. I hate Nightmare King.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Aydiπ:

Originally posted by Mr. Beartato:

The bigger problem for me is that about 75% of the stages are completely trivial and uninteresting.

True. But this is the point: more you practice, "easiest" are bosses because you know their patterns. Except for Zote. Zote is a pain in the butt. I hate Zote. And Nightmare King. I hate Nightmare King. :bbtcat:

Have you actually tried Collector ascended? I'm sorry but i'll take Zote and NKG any day over that ♥♥♥♥.

[Jak]

Originally posted by Qunoxic:

-They made almost every single boss in the "boss rush" 3x times harder (more hp, spiky floors, no floors, thorns/spikes around the rooms...) They were relaying on botomless pits for difficulty way too much;
-They made some bosses relay on RNG which made them pointless (The Collector, Uumuu, Sly, Pure Vessel);
-They added an achievement for completing the trial which ruins the achievement completion for people that have better things to do than waste 10 hours of their life to complete an unfair boss rush;
-Just to debunk the point of several people saying that the boss rush isn't unfair, yes, it is unfair.
For example: You defeat around 15 bosses just to get killed by Uumuu because you weren't having a good RNG that run;
-There's actually lore & 2 endings DIRECTLY connected with the trial, which only around 0.09% of the players will see in-game because the badly executed boss rush;
-The difficulty spike is way too big. You defeat 10 easy bosses and then fight an RNG relayed boss and die, next run you defeat that RNG boss and get to the next RNG boss after 5 more bosses and so on.

And if you think I'm just a "casual", you can check my Astats, I'm one of the first people that completed the first 4 pantheons and got 112% completion. Anybody on their right mind will agree that Pantheon of Hallownest is the worst possible execution of a boss rush. You can do anything else with your time instead of spending it for a good RNG run that will eventually come.

Stop defending Team Cherry only because you like the game.

I agree with you that its kinda dumb that there are 2 endings hidden behind the boss rush, but most of the changes to the bosses barely make them harder, and none of the bosses require good RNG to beat, for Uumuu you definitely dont need good RNG if you just avoid his easy attacks and only hit bombs that will connect with him then just take your time, for The Collector its easy to just dash over to all the things he spawns and kill them as soon as they get out of the jars(making the fight trivial), as for Sly and Pure Vessel I dont even know what you could think is RNG based in those fights but just taking your time to widdle them down without being hit is the best way to do it. As for what you said about Nightmare King Grimm, if you can beat him perfect without taking hits but the pressure from the boss rush makes you take 5~(or however many it takes to kill you) hits then I think that is just an issue on your part (source: have beaten every boss on radiant difficulty besides Absolute Radiance and Markoth). I actually really enjoy the full boss rush, but like I said it is a bit silly to hide 2 endings behind it for people who cant beat the rush, its nowhere near as hard as you made it out to be though.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Filthy weeaboo:

I agree with you that its kinda dumb that there are 2 endings hidden behind the boss rush, but most of the changes to the bosses barely make them harder, and none of the bosses require good RNG to beat, for Uumuu you definitely dont need good RNG if you just avoid his easy attacks and only hit bombs that will connect with him then just take your time, for The Collector its easy to just dash over to all the things he spawns and kill them as soon as they get out of the jars(making the fight trivial), as for Sly and Pure Vessel I dont even know what you could think is RNG based in those fights but just taking your time to widdle them down without being hit is the best way to do it. As for what you said about Nightmare King Grimm, if you can beat him perfect without taking hits but the pressure from the boss rush makes you take 5~(or however many it takes to kill you) hits then I think that is just an issue on your part (source: have beaten every boss on radiant difficulty besides Absolute Radiance and Markoth). I actually really enjoy the full boss rush, but like I said it is a bit silly to hide 2 endings behind it for people who cant beat the rush, its nowhere near as hard as you made it out to be though.

Considering less than 0.1% of players have finished the fifth pantheon, i'd say it's nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be.

[Zeforas]

I hate the 5th pantheon. Because you have to play for ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 30 to 40 minute, just to finaly get to the actual challenging part.

I don't mind hard fight. I don't mind hard, long fight.

But this pantheon is boring. Extremely boring and tedious.

Sisters of battle, sly, the nails brother, and pure vessel are cool to fight tho. Everything else is so much as a walk in the park that i don't even want to bother.

I died to nightmare king. I was annoyed. ...Not because i died, but because i knew i had to waste 35 minute again to try again.

I've beaten steel mode, with a 100% completion rate. ...I complete steel soul mode, with no health/soul/nail upgrade and no charm. A optional challenge i gave myself to have fun.

...But this pantheon, is NOT fun.

[Jak]

Originally posted by DJDiceZ:

Originally posted by Filthy weeaboo:

I agree with you that its kinda dumb that there are 2 endings hidden behind the boss rush, but most of the changes to the bosses barely make them harder, and none of the bosses require good RNG to beat, for Uumuu you definitely dont need good RNG if you just avoid his easy attacks and only hit bombs that will connect with him then just take your time, for The Collector its easy to just dash over to all the things he spawns and kill them as soon as they get out of the jars(making the fight trivial), as for Sly and Pure Vessel I dont even know what you could think is RNG based in those fights but just taking your time to widdle them down without being hit is the best way to do it. As for what you said about Nightmare King Grimm, if you can beat him perfect without taking hits but the pressure from the boss rush makes you take 5~(or however many it takes to kill you) hits then I think that is just an issue on your part (source: have beaten every boss on radiant difficulty besides Absolute Radiance and Markoth). I actually really enjoy the full boss rush, but like I said it is a bit silly to hide 2 endings behind it for people who cant beat the rush, its nowhere near as hard as you made it out to be though.

Considering less than 0.1% of players have finished the fifth pantheon, i'd say it's nowhere near as easy as you make it out to be.

I didnt say it was easy, just not as hard or RNG based as he was saying. The final pantheon is pretty hard especially because at the end of it is Absolute Radiance with the four phases of pure pain and agony.

[Desticler]

Came here expecting most people agreeing, saw most people disagreeing.
Look, while I think a "true boss rush" had to exist, they couldn't even add checkpoints. If you had 3 lives for this particular boss rush and you could revive at benches; this would've been better.
Of course; even though I don't see myself ever getting to that boss rush, let alone attemping that; I cannot ignore the fact 2 endings are locked behind this; which I'm 99% sure will tie into the Hornet campaign; most people won't even see this ending unless they search it up on youtube. Just showing this ending the first time you beat Absolute Radiance in Hall of Gods would be excusable too (If this was a thing; no checkpoints on the patheon would be justifiable since no ending will be locked behind that)
Oh, and there's an achievement for doing this boss rush. (Even though GPZ the 10th and WD the 5th and PoP didn't get achievements even though they're unarguably easier; but whatever I guess.) So now, only videogame gods will have 100% completion in this game. Achievement hunters are everywhere nowadays, and this achievement is a middle finger to those who don't have the patience; especially concidering getting all achievements was previously 10 times easier.
TL;DR: Locking the true ending behind this boss rush was a terrible decision, why does this have an achievement.

[DJDiceZ]

Well as some people pointed out, a boss rush is fine. New, very challenging bosses is fine. Forcing the player to go through a boss rush to hope for the chance to even get far enough to see them, restarting meaning that you have to go through half an hour of bosses, a lot of which you don't have troubles with, is simply tedious.
I can look up the endings if i get desperate, but I'd like to see Absolute Radiance and play against her for myself, but i have to get through every bosses in the game, INCLUDING pure vessel which is more than likely going to end my run right before i reach her.
To add insult to injury, all the bosses or their arena are made harder, and while i could deal with going through everyone at their normal strenght, going through all of their buffed fights seems like it's going to be a massive pain.

Even if you're good and can take on any ascended boss on their own, the entire thing will tire you out and slap you in the face with a fatal mistake out of nowhere.

Collector just spawns enemies that now take two hits to die, but your nail knocks them back too far to kill them right away, so the room just quickly fills up and becomes very overwhelming (also friggin aspids).

Uumuu is annoying, and i'm scared to see whatever they have done to the ascended version.

Pure vessel is by nature a very easy to get hit on fight as his attacks are too fast for normal human reflexes, and the speed at which the knight moves (and jumps, oh so slow). But how do people beat him then you might ask? Well, i figured it out, and that's how i beat him, and i'm willing to bet that's how most beat him too, consciously or not. You can react to a large portion of his attacks, but a fair ammount of them? You can't, you have to predict. And that's how i get through the fight, by anticipating his moves.

There's a few more annoying things about this Pantheon, but i don't get where the comment saying Sly is RNG comes from.

[Zeforas]

There's a few more annoying things about this Pantheon, but i don't get where the comment saying Sly is RNG comes from.

I don't get it either. He's really, REALLY scary, but once you look carefuly, he's so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ predictable.

[Steinin]

Uninstalled Hollow Knight after bashing my head against Pantheon 3 (Uumuu!!!) for a couple of hours. I'll retry in a month if there has been some sort of nerf to the pantheons, otherwise I'll probably just use a infinite healthcheat to reach the new bosses. Restored health after every pantheon boss would have been nice.

[Obb]

Originally posted by Qunoxic:

-They made almost every single boss in the "boss rush" 3x times harder (more hp, spiky floors, no floors, thorns/spikes around the rooms...) They were relaying on botomless pits for difficulty way too much;
-They made some bosses relay on RNG which made them pointless (The Collector, Uumuu, Sly, Pure Vessel);
-They added an achievement for completing the trial which ruins the achievement completion for people that have better things to do than waste 10 hours of their life to complete an unfair boss rush;
-Just to debunk the point of several people saying that the boss rush isn't unfair, yes, it is unfair.
For example: You defeat around 15 bosses just to get killed by Uumuu because you weren't having a good RNG that run;
-There's actually lore & 2 endings DIRECTLY connected with the trial, which only around 0.09% of the players will see in-game because the badly executed boss rush;
-The difficulty spike is way too big. You defeat 10 easy bosses and then fight an RNG relayed boss and die, next run you defeat that RNG boss and get to the next RNG boss after 5 more bosses and so on.

And if you think I'm just a "casual", you can check my Astats, I'm one of the first people that completed the first 4 pantheons and got 112% completion. Anybody on their right mind will agree that Pantheon of Hallownest is the worst possible execution of a boss rush. You can do anything else with your time instead of spending it for a good RNG run that will eventually come.

Stop defending Team Cherry only because you like the game.

I fully agree, the 5th Pantheon is just anything but fun. I wouldn't mind if the last Pantheon was optional but the fact that the ending is locked behind it is really questionable and poorly designed by Team Cherry. And yes, i also made it to the last one but after crawling up just to die by Pure Vessel killed it for me.

PS: I hate Uumuu so much but at the same time it's a really interesting boss.

[Jak]

Originally posted by Desticler:

Came here expecting most people agreeing, saw most people disagreeing.
Look, while I think a "true boss rush" had to exist, they couldn't even add checkpoints. If you had 3 lives for this particular boss rush and you could revive at benches; this would've been better.
Of course; even though I don't see myself ever getting to that boss rush, let alone attemping that; I cannot ignore the fact 2 endings are locked behind this; which I'm 99% sure will tie into the Hornet campaign; most people won't even see this ending unless they search it up on youtube. Just showing this ending the first time you beat Absolute Radiance in Hall of Gods would be excusable too (If this was a thing; no checkpoints on the patheon would be justifiable since no ending will be locked behind that)
Oh, and there's an achievement for doing this boss rush. (Even though GPZ the 10th and WD the 5th and PoP didn't get achievements even though they're unarguably easier; but whatever I guess.) So now, only videogame gods will have 100% completion in this game. Achievement hunters are everywhere nowadays, and this achievement is a middle finger to those who don't have the patience; especially concidering getting all achievements was previously 10 times easier.
TL;DR: Locking the true ending behind this boss rush was a terrible decision, why does this have an achievement.

So much yes to the idea to add checkpoints to the pantheons, I think if they made the benches in the pantheons ACTUAL checkpoints instead of just places to change out your badges they would be much better, and that would make 2 endings being hidden behind the last pantheon no-where near as silly from a design standpoint.

As for this having an achievment that i think makes sense, though I also think it DOESNT make any sense that PoP doesnt have an achievment, because even if you say its unarguably easier I have beaten the final pantheon and all but Absolute Radiance and Markoth on radiant difficulty, but path of pain is still something I never have and probably wont beat, since Im way worse ar platforming than combat. ( GPZ and WD later versions I dont think deserve achievements but it would be neat if they had them I guess).

[Jak]

Originally posted by DJDiceZ:

Well as some people pointed out, a boss rush is fine. New, very challenging bosses is fine. Forcing the player to go through a boss rush to hope for the chance to even get far enough to see them, restarting meaning that you have to go through half an hour of bosses, a lot of which you don't have troubles with, is simply tedious.
I can look up the endings if i get desperate, but I'd like to see Absolute Radiance and play against her for myself, but i have to get through every bosses in the game, INCLUDING pure vessel which is more than likely going to end my run right before i reach her.
To add insult to injury, all the bosses or their arena are made harder, and while i could deal with going through everyone at their normal strenght, going through all of their buffed fights seems like it's going to be a massive pain.

Even if you're good and can take on any ascended boss on their own, the entire thing will tire you out and slap you in the face with a fatal mistake out of nowhere.

Collector just spawns enemies that now take two hits to die, but your nail knocks them back too far to kill them right away, so the room just quickly fills up and becomes very overwhelming (also friggin aspids).

Uumuu is annoying, and i'm scared to see whatever they have done to the ascended version.

Pure vessel is by nature a very easy to get hit on fight as his attacks are too fast for normal human reflexes, and the speed at which the knight moves (and jumps, oh so slow). But how do people beat him then you might ask? Well, i figured it out, and that's how i beat him, and i'm willing to bet that's how most beat him too, consciously or not. You can react to a large portion of his attacks, but a fair ammount of them? You can't, you have to predict. And that's how i get through the fight, by anticipating his moves.

There's a few more annoying things about this Pantheon, but i don't get where the comment saying Sly is RNG comes from.

If you want a tip on Collector ascended equip the badge that prevents you getting knocked back when you hit as well as the quick attack badge, then you can just run up and kill the enemys he spawns right as they come out of the jars even though they require 2 hits.

Uumuu is annoying as hell, but he isnt very different in ascended and as I said in a seperate post, just take your time and you can beat him without taking any hits.

As for Pure Vessel being "Too fast for human reflexes" I dont think he is considering he can be beat on radiant difficulty and that I've done that, me not being good at video games. The way I ended up dealing with his speed was just always keeping an eye on him, and most of the time just looking at him as apposed to the knight, as soon as he points his sword for the charge forward attack, jump, as soon as he jumps up get ready to dodge and avoid the swords from the ground, for his ranged sword-thing attack I always just used the shadow dodge to get through that, and if you get parried shadow dodging behind him is pretty much the only way I found to avoid getting hit.

And I too dont know why someone said Sly was RNG, all of his attacks are pretty straightforward lol.