This is so sad

[J-12]

Can we have a good ending?

[some nerd]

Originally posted by DarkRift13:

This is Hollownest we're talking about. Nothing happy happens there.

I mean, yeah. It’s a literal kingdom that’s had it’s glory days until an infection destroyed it. By the time the player arrives, it’s already in ruins with only few uninfected bugs still living in it.

[J-12]

Oh.
Well, thats a whole new reason for depression.

Originally posted by Ellixer:

Originally posted by Evil Eye:

More details pls, i have completed game twice and have no idea about who you talking.

I believe it was the Hollow Knight (as in the boss). It can be inferred that the Pale King raised it as his own child. There are several supporting evidence, such as the cradle in the White Palace, the cutscene at the end of Path of Pain (as well as the resulting "Seal of Binding", which "preserves something of great importance", implying that the memory is dear to the Pale King) and several lines cut from the game (there are files indicating that one of the Hollow Knight's thoughts if you dreamnail him is simply "father?". Though this was cut, it is consistent with the other evidence). The implication is that the Pale King felt bad about sacrificing the Hollow Knight to seal the infection, so he chose to give it a childhood and a life before it had to make the final sacrifice (least that's how I choose to read it). This gesture led the Hollow Knight to grow beyond its intended function and became "impure" and incapable of containing the Radiance. One can make the case that similar things may happen to the player character if others try to treat it like an actual person.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Ellixer:

Originally posted by Evil Eye:

More details pls, i have completed game twice and have no idea about who you talking.

I believe it was the Hollow Knight (as in the boss). It can be inferred that the Pale King raised it as his own child. There are several supporting evidence, such as the cradle in the White Palace, the cutscene at the end of Path of Pain (as well as the resulting "Seal of Binding", which "preserves something of great importance", implying that the memory is dear to the Pale King) and several lines cut from the game (there are files indicating that one of the Hollow Knight's thoughts if you dreamnail him is simply "father?". Though this was cut, it is consistent with the other evidence). The implication is that the Pale King felt bad about sacrificing the Hollow Knight to seal the infection, so he chose to give it a childhood and a life before it had to make the final sacrifice (least that's how I choose to read it). This gesture led the Hollow Knight to grow beyond its intended function and became "impure" and incapable of containing the Radiance. One can make the case that similar things may happen to the player character if others try to treat it like an actual person.

This guy nailed it (except the part where he describes the intentiion of the king, but that's not clear at all so it's equally valid)

[Ellixer]

Well like I said, that's my personal reading of it. I'm not sure if there's a better explanation out there, but I couldn't think of another reason why. None of it is entirely clear, but I think everything else is generally agreed upon.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure why he did it, considering the fact that it contradicted the requirements he came up with for a vessel.

[Aval4nche]

the main character's destination is purely to defeat the evil, after that he doesn't have any meaning in hallownest.

[Obluda]

What reward would a being devoid of will, mind, feeling, desire etc... even be able to enjoy? Honestly, I think the first ending is the best. It fits perfectly thematically. The chosen vessel was a failure, and only the failed vessel is able to -presumably - succeed in containing the Radiance because only the failed vessel is truly empty (which seems to fit with the pseudo-Buddhist themes running through the game). I don't think Dream No More is a bad ending by any means, but if I had to pick one for the game to have, it would be the so-called default 'bad' ending.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

the main character's destination is purely to defeat the evil, after that he doesn't have any meaning in hallownest.

But, is there anything considered evil in hallownest in the first place?

[Aval4nche]

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

the main character's destination is purely to defeat the evil, after that he doesn't have any meaning in hallownest.

But, is there anything considered evil in hallownest in the first place?

The plague and the source of it.

[Aval4nche]

Originally posted by Obluda:

What reward would a being devoid of will, mind, feeling, desire etc... even be able to enjoy? Honestly, I think the first ending is the best. It fits perfectly thematically. The chosen vessel was a failure, and only the failed vessel is able to -presumably - succeed in containing the Radiance because only the failed vessel is truly empty (which seems to fit with the pseudo-Buddhist themes running through the game). I don't think Dream No More is a bad ending by any means, but if I had to pick one for the game to have, it would be the so-called default 'bad' ending.

The main character isn’t hollow as well at the beginning, only after acquiring the void heart.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

Originally posted by Obluda:

What reward would a being devoid of will, mind, feeling, desire etc... even be able to enjoy? Honestly, I think the first ending is the best. It fits perfectly thematically. The chosen vessel was a failure, and only the failed vessel is able to -presumably - succeed in containing the Radiance because only the failed vessel is truly empty (which seems to fit with the pseudo-Buddhist themes running through the game). I don't think Dream No More is a bad ending by any means, but if I had to pick one for the game to have, it would be the so-called default 'bad' ending.

The main character isn’t hollow as well at the beginning, only after acquiring the void heart.

No, the white lady explicitly states he actually IS hollow at the beginning, if he gets tarnished throughout the journey it's upon adquiring the void heart, when the lady doesn't tell you you are pure anymore.

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

But, is there anything considered evil in hallownest in the first place?

The plague and the source of it.

They aren't considered evil explicitly, the pale light of the king could also be considered evil (for all the vessels discarded and the sacrifices imposed upon others) but the bugs adored him. There were some that considered the light good and took it upon themselves, the traitor lord and the moss prophet are some examples. (The bees in the hive seem to work perfectly in a hivemind like that one) Others rejected the pale light of the king: the greenpath inhabitants and Bardoon for example (the last one rejected both lights).

Also, it can be argued that the cause of the infection is the attempt of the king to take control of the kingdom from the radiance by making her tribe and other tribes forget her.

The main purpose of the vessel is not to end all evil but to trap the old light that was causing the infection as a possible revenge for the king and his kingdom. It was an invention of the king to trap his enemy, not a hero created to end the evil in the world.

[Aval4nche]

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

The main character isn’t hollow as well at the beginning, only after acquiring the void heart.

No, the white lady explicitly states he actually IS hollow at the beginning, if he gets tarnished throughout the journey it's upon adquiring the void heart, when the lady doesn't tell you you are pure anymore.

Originally posted by Aval4nche:

The plague and the source of it.

They aren't considered evil explicitly, the pale light of the king could also be considered evil (for all the vessels discarded and the sacrifices imposed upon others) but the bugs adored him. There were some that considered the light good and took it upon themselves, the traitor lord and the moss prophet are some examples. (The bees in the hive seem to work perfectly in a hivemind like that one) Others rejected the pale light of the king: the greenpath inhabitants and Bardoon for example (the last one rejected both lights).

Also, it can be argued that the cause of the infection is the attempt of the king to take control of the kingdom from the radiance by making her tribe and other tribes forget her.

The main purpose of the vessel is not to end all evil but to trap the old light that was causing the infection as a possible revenge for the king and his kingdom. It was an invention of the king to trap his enemy, not a hero created to end the evil in the world.

I didn’t mean all evil but just the Radiance.

[J-12]

This whole thing is super-unclear and figurative-litteral means are very mixed up.
For example, i still dont get what Radiance did to рiss-off king that much. Couldnt they be more diplomatical about it?
Second, i get that the memory of her somehow crawled in heads of lesser bugs, trough shared stories maybe, and then when they tried to forget it and failed it caused actual bacteria/parasite? I dont get it. I would understand if Radiance did something realy scary and stories of her would scar bugs mental health for life, but not this.

[Ellixer]

As I understand it, the Pale King brought Independence and Sentience to the bugs of Hallownest, so one could also argue that he liberated them from the Radiance, with the bugs swapping a God for a Monarch (though they treat him like a God anyway so small difference, really). The cause of the infection is indeed in retaliation to the Radiance being abandoned and forgotten, but I find it difficult to consider it justified from the information we were given (but to be fair, almost everyone we ran into lived under his reign, so we only have the Seer to speak for the Radiance). I think most of us can agree that Independence and Sentience is a worthy thing to achieve and the Radiance seems to me to be lashing out due to her loss of power over those she consider her subjects, who all seem to appreciate what the Pale King brought them. The Bees and mushrooms seem to function as a hive mind (though I'm pretty sure they don't worship the Radiance), but the bugs of Hallownest enjoyed being freed from the Radiance and at this stage it's almost certain that she doesn't have their benefits in mind.

Whatever the case, I think everyone can agree that evil or not, the Radiance is certainly a destructive force that needed to be stopped. The Seer regretted abandoning her people's former deity and the Traitor Lord seems functional despite the infection, but it's impossible to miss the mental degradation of everyone else (Myla is a prime example).

The Pale King for his part took some drastic actions, and for many he crossed the line a long time ago. However, as far as we know, no one begrudged him for this, at least no one outright cast him as a straight up villain (though in the Hollow Knight's case, his apparent lack of resentment is tragic in its own way). The difference is, the Radiance seems to be the aggressor. She drove the residents insane out of vindictiveness. The Pale King seems to have tried to defend his subjects and aside from the sacrifices made I can think of no evidence suggesting that he was a poor monarch to his kingdom. All evidence present indicate that the bugs of Hallownest chose their path willingly and the Radiance is simply unhappy with their choice.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Evil Eye:

This whole thing is super-unclear and figurative-litteral means are very mixed up.
For example, i still dont get what Radiance did to рiss-off king that much. Couldnt they be more diplomatical about it?
Second, i get that the memory of her somehow crawled in heads of lesser bugs, trough shared stories maybe, and then when they tried to forget it and failed it caused actual bacteria/parasite? I dont get it. I would understand if Radiance did something realy scary and stories of her would scar bugs mental health for life, but not this.

The king came and made others forget the radiance, we don't know if the radiance actually did anything or it was just the king who decided he wanted to rule the kingdom alone or something... (probably the second one since radiance's power implied base instincts while the king's power was more of advanced thinking and probably free will, they were opposites, they would end up clashing sooner or later)

No, i think it's the actual power of the radiance what causes the infection directly, no parasite is known, just fragile minds. Maybe it's a parasite or something but we don't have anything pointing at that direction. It would be pretty strange since it's implied several times that the infection connects everyone's mind to a hivemind.

[J-12]

Those are very nice and belivable theories, but it would be even nicer if developers droped us some canonical explanation.