There needs to be a checkpoint between The Hollow Knight and the Radiance

[Titan]

Constantly needing to refight the hollow knight, whilst easy, is a total waste of the player's time.

[Darc Vader]

Mechanically, I agree that that would be nice, but I get why there isn't one there from a story point of view.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Darc Vader:

Mechanically, I agree that that would be nice, but I get why there isn't one there from a story point of view.

I understand story wise as well, but quality of life for the player trumps that imo. Getting stuck on the Radiance is made infinitely more frustrating by not being able to just jump back into the fight.

[HexaDecimatoR]

The Hollow Knight takes less than two minutes to beat when you have all the nail upgrades and spells. It's not that bad of a fight to quickly get through, and I'm sure I could get it done quicker if my charm setup wasn't specifcally for The Radiance.

[Titan]

Originally posted by McCramer:

The Hollow Knight takes less than two minutes to beat when you have all the nail upgrades and spells. It's not that bad of a fight to quickly get through, and I'm sure I could get it done quicker if my charm setup wasn't specifcally for The Radiance.

I have the semi-final nail upgrade (can't be asked finding grubs to get that piece of pale ore from the grubfather). And it is quick in real-time, you're right. But it certainly feels longer than it actually takes. Even the real time of a minute or two is wasted time you could be jumping back into fighting the radiance with.

[wolfanddragon7101]

Trust me when I say I agree with you because the Radiance was hard enough in it's first phase and when I finally pushed through to the second phase I was killed and then sent back to the beginning. And I agree that a checkpoint would be awesome but then it would take away that challange that the Radiance has. It's meant to be a true final confrontation, like doing the ending of a story on loop so a checkpoint wouldn't make any sense despite being wanted. No flames please just responding

[Titan]

Originally posted by wolfanddragon7101:

Trust me when I say I agree with you because the Radiance was hard enough in it's first phase and when I finally pushed through to the second phase I was killed and then sent back to the beginning. And I agree that a checkpoint would be awesome but then it would take away that challange that the Radiance has. It's meant to be a true final confrontation, like doing the ending of a story on loop so a checkpoint wouldn't make any sense despite being wanted. No flames please just responding

I understand where you're coming from (from a story perspective). But I don't really understand, how would it take away the challenge of the fight itself? You automatically heal between the hollow knight and the radiance, hollow knight is an easy fight. It's just a stretch of time. I don't see how it would make the Radiance itself any less difficult?

[Darthzz]

There is indeed a difference between tedium and challenge. Having to refight the hollow knight over and over isn't a challenge, just tedium. He's not even difficult, he just prolongs getting back to the Radiance more than even necessary.

[wolfanddragon7101]

I mean think of it this way, if you could charge straight in with full health from a checkpoint in the boss fight it would have made the boss a heck of a lot easier to deal with. But at the same time team cherry practically, if not literally, made 2D sidescroller Darksouls and both metroidvainias and dark souls/bloodbourne are wrapped in tedium and anger inducing fights. Both games tend to bring out the rage that gamers feel and, I'm not dissing anyone here, the did it and to be fair it's funny when you look back at it. But again I see your point and it is tedious beyond all worth. My mouse is now scarred because of rage. T_T

[Titan]

But you go back into the boss with full health anyway. Your health regenerates when you enter the Radiance fight.

Also, this game is not even remotely comparable to DS so I don't exactly see your point.

[Darc Vader]

The downsides of having a checkpoint would be that you would a)not be able to leave and do other things, and b)you would have to start the fight with no soul every time but the first.

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by wolfanddragon7101:

I mean think of it this way, if you could charge straight in with full health from a checkpoint in the boss fight it would have made the boss a heck of a lot easier to deal with. But at the same time team cherry practically, if not literally, made 2D sidescroller Darksouls and both metroidvainias and dark souls/bloodbourne are wrapped in tedium and anger inducing fights. Both games tend to bring out the rage that gamers feel and, I'm not dissing anyone here, the did it and to be fair it's funny when you look back at it. But again I see your point and it is tedious beyond all worth. My mouse is now scarred because of rage. T_T

The tedium of those games was honestly the worst part of them. You can still have a hard boss while also being able to try again really quickly, as proven by games like Cuphead.

Originally posted by TitanicTitan:

But you go back into the boss with full health anyway. Your health regenerates when you enter the Radiance fight.

Also, this game is not even remotely comparable to DS so I don't exactly see your point.

It takes some clear inspirations from Dark Souls, but it's not a "soulslike".

[wolfanddragon7101]

I mean in difficulty and having to find your shade when I compare to Dark Souls, opinion may vary. However, i have only barely scratched the surface of dark souls 2 cause I never got the chance to continue playing. But dark souls aside, my point being, and I don't speak for them just my opinion, Team cherry didn't want it to be easy they wanted to make a great game driven by exploration and growth as the character. and metroidvainias have a record of being tedious and difficult.

[Titan]

I mean, difficulty isn't the problem. The Hollow Knight is much too easy. It's just tedious to refight him every time.

And no other part of Hollow Knight suffers from this problem, it's just an odd design choice in an otherwise nearly perfect game.

[wolfanddragon7101]

I know that if they took out that fight and just replaced it with hollow knight on the ground vulnerable to dream nail then it would be a lot faster. I honestly don't have a way to respond anymore.

[Darthzz]

Originally posted by wolfanddragon7101:

I know that if they took out that fight and just replaced it with hollow knight on the ground vulnerable to dream nail then it would be a lot faster. I honestly don't have a way to respond anymore.

That would work honestly. And incase you wanted to fight the hollow knight again, maybe he would be back in the state where you could fight him again after you beat the Radiance.