Hitting a massive difficulty curve

[Gold♥Shield]

Seems like once I got my Mantis Claw and Crystal Heart ability, I was able to move around the map a lot easier and explore new areas, but I found myself moving constantly to new areas without completing any. It seemed I was always missing some skill that I needed to progress, so I finally found my way to the Ancient Basin and found the Monarch Wings. However, now that I can access previously unreachable areas, I'm finding bosses that are killing me extremely fast. The Dreamers also seem a bit ridiculous as well.

So far I've upgraded my nail to the spiral and I only have two spells. The charge attacks seem to be useless in every boss fight since the boss don't relent or even give you a moment to heal. I've also purchased everything there is to buy from both the merchant in Dirtmouth and the charm grub (with the exception of the final notch thing - need four more charms).

At the moment, it feels like I'm just wandering aimlessly between bosses that I feel I'm not ready to fight yet. Are there any areas I should be completing before others? Or should I just go back and revisit some of the older completed areas? The game was a blast to play up until this point.

[arejang]

Give us a name of a boss you're having trouble with. Some of them are pretty crazy.

[Gold♥Shield]

Dream version of that infected hallow knight (ancient basin). Dream version of the first boss you fight. The Mantis Lords. Crystal Guardian 2.0 (which I've seen many people complain about him).

I get the feeling like I should have more nail upgrades by now or a charm that helps my defense. I need to swap some charms around because right now, they aren't really tailored to helping me fight bosses. I have one that helps me focus soul faster for quicker healing and I'm sure that will help immensely with the bosses that have quicker attacks, but I can't really find any opening to heal with the constant pressure on me. That hallow knight boss has those orange blobs constantly spawning on top of me so I can't heal and the Guardian/first boss attack so frequently that I also have no spot to heal. Unless the idea is to damage them enough to stagger and then heal, then I guess it's just a matter of needing to learn their attacks a bit better.

[RinkakuRei]

For charge attacks: while there aren't many times for stopping to heal, the nail arts (I'm assuming nail arts is what you meant by charge attacks) can charge without requiring you to stand still so you can avoid attacks, though frankly it's not useful for half of the bosses indeed, there are some where it's very helpful though.

There are a lot of secret charms to pick up that will help you in the boss fights, but the main helper in boss fights is pattern recognition which means you should try the boss a few times and eventually you will get it right, this is especially true for a boss such as the Nightmare King.

EDIT based on your previous comment:

Dream fights are usually done by training on them, that's one of the reasons why you don't die for real in them, you will be healed to full health if you enter a dream, and if you can't use healing well, then I suggest using Joni's Blessing charm.

While this is my opinion, my must have charms are: Quick Slash and Fragile/Unbreakable Strength, honorable mention for Shaman Stone,Quick Focus and Dreamshield.

There is only one more nail upgrade at the Nailsmith which will bring your nail damage up from 17 to 21.

Mantis Lords: Very simple pattern, try them out a few times, they only have 3 types of attack that you just have to walk and jump out from, for example: their rush should be jumped then you should hit their back, the downward strike just requires you to move out of it's way then hit them when they land, and the disc ability depends on if the mantis is low or high on the wall, this will tell you if the disc is coming from below or above you so you know when to jump.

Spells: This is very important if you're close to dying and likely have no time to heal or if you use Joni's Blessing. My favourite spell is the Desolate Dive/Descending Dark, which grants you invincibility frames so you can spam it without being hit, beware of the initial jump your character performs while using this spell as you can get hit at that time, but as the dive happens you're invulnerable. Descending Dark does 60 damage if you get all three damage ticks in and being able to do 3-6 at once while being invulnerable can be a changer, especially for the Crystal Guardian 2.0 which you can face tank with this and some melee. Flukenest used with the Vengeful Spirit/Shade Soul is also devastating as it does way more damage than Descending Dark.

There's a chance you're lacking some Notches as well, your character can get a total of 11 Notches, that's 8 Notches you can find added to your default 3. You can also pick up 4 Health Masks throughout the game (that's 16 shards) and 3 Vessels, which in total double your Soul capacity, if you think it's required then you can check out the wiki which has all charm/fragment locations listed.

Lost Kin: The safest time to heal in that fight without Quick Focus would be when he's staggered (knocked out), you have to destroy one of those flying things when he's staggered though, this will allow you one heal, two if you're lucky with the orange ghost spawn. I personally use Joni's Blessing to beat him because as you stated there aren't many safe occasions to heal.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Originally posted by Gold♥Shield:

The charge attacks seem to be useless in every boss fight since the boss don't relent or even give you a moment to heal.

You can move around normally while charging Nail Arts.

And don't worry, it gets harder. Much harder. I used the Defender's Crest charm to eventually defeat the Lost Kin because it pops those annoying balloons, but that doesn't cut out the experience, testing, and reflexes needed. And I didn't beat Lost Kin until getting a certain other upgrade which you need something else in the Kingdom's Edge to reach, which makes it easier to avoid attacks.

Also, like, the Mantis Lords are pure reaction. I'll admit to dying to them twice, but at the same time it was always like "I shouldn't be taking any damage from these guys" and I got impatient because of that.

Joni's Blessing was something I used for a few bosses, but I actually dropped it starting with the Lost Kin fight. I shouldn't be getting hit so much that it's actually worth it over other charms unless the boss is specifically really fast with not much health (which there aren't that many of).

[Sshado]

Keep in mind that the dream bosses are meant to be done much later in the game. You should have basically everything cleared before you worry about them.

Also for the late game bosses you should not be taking damage from their hits. Typically the only way to heal is to use Quick Focus + Deep Focus + Shape Of Unn or some combination of those charms. You also can't just heal whenever... sometimes you may have to wait for a specific attack animation on the boss. It may take up to 30 seconds to find a safe point to heal during a boss fight.

So with that in mind you have to either go full heals approach *or* find a new tactic. Here's some options which rely on you primarily avoiding attacks:

Shaman's Stone + Flukenest => creates a super high damage burst attack that you can spam on slow/big enemies. It will do around 220+ damage if you land all of the flukes. This is the equivalent of 12 nail strikes at level 3 (spiral) upgrade.

Stalwart Shell + Joni's Blessing + Lifeblood Core => Sets your health bar to 150% + 1, so 6 masks will turn into 10 *blue* spirit masks. Lifeblood Core adds 4 more spirit masks. That's 14 hits you can take, and Stalwart Shell extends invulnerability. This means that any time you get hurt you can spam attack the boss for lots of damage and extra soul.

Quick Slashes + Mark Of Pride + Long Nail + Sprintmaster => This gives you huge range and fast attacks with mobility. You play like a warrior. You must avoid the boss's attacks at all costs. This build looks like an aggressive one but you must play passively and look for openings. This just allows you to exploit openings you normally can't do ... like down-slashing the boss while you jump over their head. If you add up these exploited opportunities over a 60 second fight then it turns out to be a ton of damage.

Things you could do instead:
Do you have all dream warriors beaten?
Upgraded each of your skills to their super version?
Beaten the first round in colloseum?
Do you have all your charm notches? 9+ is really important. Ideally 10 or 11.


TL;DR ... yes it is difficult but you need to take the right approach for each boss. Each one requires different charm interactions to deal with attack patterns.

[Gold♥Shield]

It appears I just need to explore some more. I haven't found the coloseum yet and I didn't know the spells could be upgraded.

I'll explore around a bit more before trying again. Also, I've played many games (Demon's/Dark souls) where reflexes and learning enemy movements are key to winning so I'm not running in thinking I can button mash my way to victory. For whatever reason, the controls don't feel as smooth as they do in other games and for that reason, I find myself getting hit more than I should and/or getting impatient in certain fights. I'll admit, I only fought the Mantis Lords a few times and I haven't been back in a while.

Thanks for the advice thus far. I know I need to test out some new charms as I haven't changed my setup in a long time. I guess now would be a good time to get rid of some of the charms like the geo collector one now that I seem to have purchased everything from the shops.

[Sshado]

It sounds like you hit the same difficulty wall that I did around mid-game. There's just a metric ton of incremental upgrades hiding all over that need to be gathered up before you climb over it. It's worth it though... you get to be pretty dang strong.

The mantis lords are definitely one of the more mechanical bosses by the way. There's going to be bosses that are like them but even harder though, so don't rush it. Just go back and try a few times when you feel like it in-between upgrade gathering. It took me probably 25 fights to finally beat them myself... it was the first time I had to deal with focusing on the fight as an endurance challenge instead of a duel. In the end they just try to wear you out and force you to heal, which will get you killed unless you are so patient.

I hope you have a great time :)

Regarding squishy controls:

Have you experimented with the Dashmaster, Sprintmaster, and Steady Body charms yet? I actually have to take them off or on for certain bosses depending if I need squishy movement or snappy movement.

Also as a Dark Souls player you're going to want to get the Shade Cloak as soon as possible so that your dash gets many i-frames. I found this to be the game changer for me and I rush for it now whenever I start a run.


Edit: Geo collector charms are still nice while you're exploring. You *do* still need the money for late game.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Originally posted by Gold♥Shield:

Also, I've played many games (Demon's/Dark souls) where reflexes and learning enemy movements are key to winning so I'm not running in thinking I can button mash my way to victory

Ehm... Dark Souls is kinda slow. I never made it to the hardest bosses in those games because I got impatient with it, but I've still played dozens of hours of the first one and a fair bit of the second. That teaches patience, not reflexes.

I play fighting games.

[Za]

Every enemy and Boss has a pattern. When you fight a boss for the first time sometimes it's best to assume you're scouting it out and probably going to die. So far I've beat every boss on at most the 3rd attempt except the Flukeworm and Mantis Lords thing which I'm skipping until more upgrade (not bragging) by just observing.

The Teleporting bosses are by and far the most frustrating but just don't give up! And as you've heard plenty of bosses are meant to be fought much later game.

Also don't feel shamed into playing "blind' and look up a decent guide to finding out what to do next even as just a hint helps.

[Epic_Caesura]

The game gives you a ton of freedom to access areas well before you're powerful enough to beat them. If a boss or section stomps you, leave it for now and come back later. Somewhere out there, there's an easier area where you can level up a bit.

[Shichiya]

Lost kin is actually pretty easy assuming you have 2 required charm
Defender crest + Spore shroom
Once you've stunned the lost kin,you can just straight up healing as the yellow bubble can't touch you,they will be destroyed instantly by the smoke emitted

[Gold♥Shield]

I don't think I have a lot of the charms needed to fight some of these bosses. As I said before, when I would find a new place, I would wander around and explore only to find myself ending up in a completely new place. I'm slowly going back and finishing all the older places I skimmed through and I've already found a sizable chunk of charms and new abilities.

I've been wondering though. The Wanderer's Compass charm, is it needed to complete your map or just to find out where you are? Also, I've seen people recommend getting the unbreakable charms, but I've only found the fragile ones. Where do I go to get the unbreakable ones?

[Dadik]

The fragile charms can be "upgraded" into unbreakable for a lot of geo.
You can upgrade them by putting them on and talking to Divine in the smaller tent after you summon the Grimm Troupe.

[Gold♥Shield]

Guess I'm not to that point just yet.

[Dadik]

Also, no, the compass charm isn't needed to complete the map, just the quill which updates your map on every bench.
It's really only there for people who have bad memory/are bad at reading maps.