Hollow Knight VS Ori and the Blind Forest

[AgentFlea]

How would you say these compare?

I heard HK is more combat focused and Ori platform based.
But I'd like a little more detail. I've looked at gameplay for hollow knight and the combat looks alright.

Not too crazy about the look either. Hollow Knights color gradient seems all meshed. Saturated with goth, black and white, and kinda plain looking by comparison.

Also don't really like HK himself. He stands and walks all... STIFF, boring-like and plain. He reminds me of this cheap flash game from back in the day:

http://flashgn.com/images/screenshots/screenshot19.jpg



One thing that does draw me in are the abilities. You seem to get plentiful interesting ones. I'm a huge metroid-vania fan so I might pick this up eventually.

Everybody is raving about it but it seems standard to me. I've played a lot of metroidvanias and I'm failing to see why this is standanding out so much. Because your typical "Its done well" and "the art style z0mg Edgar Allen Poe" lol

[Cyseal]

Well, suffice to say that Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania-game there is. It's just perfect in every way. The length is good, there are tons of secrets to discover, the story-bosses are fun to battle against, the music is amazing, the art-style is spot on and the game has Hornet. Optional bosses are more or less of a challenge, but nothing too tedious. There is no grinding involved and the hardest parts in the game are optional. The abilities are the basic double jump-dash-smash ground like in every metroidvania. Also, the controls are just perfect and work 100 % (at least with controller).

Ori is... Meh. It looks great, the music is fantastic, but it has a slew of problems that are just too much of an annoyance (the controls aren't as precise, for example). Also it's terribly short and there aren't any memorable boss fights, not to mention the lack of boss fights. Sure, it has some graphical, emotional bits that make those parts amazing, but as a whole game, it's just... Meh.

But my biggest gripe with Ori and the Blind Forest are the countless deaths that are SO unfair it's unbeliavable. There are enemies that come out from somewhere you can't see, there are bushes that damage you without the game giving you any kind of a warning about them, there are projectiles that are just pure BS and the list goes on. But, to be frank, because the saving system is what it is (I don't like it), it's "fine" for most people, since there is barely any redoing of the unfair parts if you just use the save-point often.

All in all, Hollow Knight takes the cake, the baker and the oven in the genre, while Ori the Blind Forest remains a mediocore platformer with stunning music/graphics and all that emotional hibijibi.

[Firebee]

Originally posted by Mikaelion:

Well, suffice to say that Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania-game there is. It's just perfect in every way. The length is good, there are tons of secrets to discover, the story-bosses are fun to battle against, the music is amazing, the art-style is spot on and the game has Hornet. Optional bosses are more or less of a challenge, but nothing too tedious. There is no grinding involved and the hardest parts in the game are optional. The abilities are the basic double jump-dash-smash ground like in every metroidvania. Also, the controls are just perfect and work 100 % (at least with controller).

Ori is... Meh. It looks great, the music is fantastic, but it has a slew of problems that are just too much of an annoyance (the controls aren't as precise, for example). Also it's terribly short and there aren't any memorable boss fights, not to mention the lack of boss fights. Sure, it has some graphical, emotional bits that make those parts amazing, but as a whole game, it's just... Meh.

But my biggest gripe with Ori and the Blind Forest are the countless deaths that are SO unfair it's unbeliavable. There are enemies that come out from somewhere you can't see, there are bushes that damage you without the game giving you any kind of a warning about them, there are projectiles that are just pure BS and the list goes on. But, to be frank, because the saving system is what it is (I don't like it), it's "fine" for most people, since there is barely any redoing of the unfair parts if you just use the save-point often.

All in all, Hollow Knight takes the cake, the baker and the oven in the genre, while Ori the Blind Forest remains a mediocore platformer with stunning music/graphics and all that emotional hibijibi.

Game is hard = it suck. Such logic. Heh if i compare the difficulties in HK to Ori i can say Ori is harder than HK even you play in Steel Soul you can't die instantly like Ori.
Look through the topic most people compare fighting mechanics in HK better than Ori but they just forgot. Ori is a platform game which is focus on platforming and solve puzzle and the enemies design to serve 2 purposes: platforming and solve puzzle . In HK most of the time you slice and dice the enemies while platforming only White Palace.
You suck at game doesn't mean the game is hard. Both game are awesome and best not to miss it.

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by VNFirebee:

Originally posted by Mikaelion:

Well, suffice to say that Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania-game there is. It's just perfect in every way. The length is good, there are tons of secrets to discover, the story-bosses are fun to battle against, the music is amazing, the art-style is spot on and the game has Hornet. Optional bosses are more or less of a challenge, but nothing too tedious. There is no grinding involved and the hardest parts in the game are optional. The abilities are the basic double jump-dash-smash ground like in every metroidvania. Also, the controls are just perfect and work 100 % (at least with controller).

Ori is... Meh. It looks great, the music is fantastic, but it has a slew of problems that are just too much of an annoyance (the controls aren't as precise, for example). Also it's terribly short and there aren't any memorable boss fights, not to mention the lack of boss fights. Sure, it has some graphical, emotional bits that make those parts amazing, but as a whole game, it's just... Meh.

But my biggest gripe with Ori and the Blind Forest are the countless deaths that are SO unfair it's unbeliavable. There are enemies that come out from somewhere you can't see, there are bushes that damage you without the game giving you any kind of a warning about them, there are projectiles that are just pure BS and the list goes on. But, to be frank, because the saving system is what it is (I don't like it), it's "fine" for most people, since there is barely any redoing of the unfair parts if you just use the save-point often.

All in all, Hollow Knight takes the cake, the baker and the oven in the genre, while Ori the Blind Forest remains a mediocore platformer with stunning music/graphics and all that emotional hibijibi.

Game is hard = it suck. Such logic. Heh if i compare the difficulties in HK to Ori i can say Ori is harder than HK even you play in Steel Soul you can't die instantly like Ori.
Look through the topic most people compare fighting mechanics in HK better than Ori but they just forgot. Ori is a platform game which is focus on platforming and solve puzzle and the enemies design to serve 2 purposes: platforming and solve puzzle . In HK most of the time you slice and dice the enemies while platforming only White Palace.
You suck at game doesn't mean the game is hard. Both game are awesome and best not to miss it.

Or does have its fair share of cheap platform gauntlets, which you're bound to die to several times before getting it which is pretty cheap. Also hk does have platforming in order to move around the environments. Enemies serve as an obsticle and even method to progress cretain sections.

[Cyseal]

Originally posted by VNFirebee:

Originally posted by Mikaelion:

Well, suffice to say that Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania-game there is. It's just perfect in every way. The length is good, there are tons of secrets to discover, the story-bosses are fun to battle against, the music is amazing, the art-style is spot on and the game has Hornet. Optional bosses are more or less of a challenge, but nothing too tedious. There is no grinding involved and the hardest parts in the game are optional. The abilities are the basic double jump-dash-smash ground like in every metroidvania. Also, the controls are just perfect and work 100 % (at least with controller).

Ori is... Meh. It looks great, the music is fantastic, but it has a slew of problems that are just too much of an annoyance (the controls aren't as precise, for example). Also it's terribly short and there aren't any memorable boss fights, not to mention the lack of boss fights. Sure, it has some graphical, emotional bits that make those parts amazing, but as a whole game, it's just... Meh.

But my biggest gripe with Ori and the Blind Forest are the countless deaths that are SO unfair it's unbeliavable. There are enemies that come out from somewhere you can't see, there are bushes that damage you without the game giving you any kind of a warning about them, there are projectiles that are just pure BS and the list goes on. But, to be frank, because the saving system is what it is (I don't like it), it's "fine" for most people, since there is barely any redoing of the unfair parts if you just use the save-point often.

All in all, Hollow Knight takes the cake, the baker and the oven in the genre, while Ori the Blind Forest remains a mediocore platformer with stunning music/graphics and all that emotional hibijibi.

Game is hard = it suck. Such logic. Heh if i compare the difficulties in HK to Ori i can say Ori is harder than HK even you play in Steel Soul you can't die instantly like Ori.
Look through the topic most people compare fighting mechanics in HK better than Ori but they just forgot. Ori is a platform game which is focus on platforming and solve puzzle and the enemies design to serve 2 purposes: platforming and solve puzzle . In HK most of the time you slice and dice the enemies while platforming only White Palace.
You suck at game doesn't mean the game is hard. Both game are awesome and best not to miss it.

When did I say Hollow Knight is harder or that Ori is hard or that Hollow Knight is hard...? It's pretty obvious that you didn't a) read through the post or b) you didn't understand.

The difficulty in Ori comes from the platforming, which isn't hard at all, but the unfair difficulty comes from instant deaths by a ton of different enemies that are close to impossible to dodge/counter if you're not aware it's there. That's artificial difficulty and it's just terrible game design.

Ori and the Blind Forest isn't hard by any means due to how checkpoints work. Hollow Knight isn't hard by any means if you keep trying and learn the boss's movements. Both games aren't exactly hard, some parts are close to being challenging, but still not hard. Even White Palace was a place I didn't die once and I didn't even use the Hiveblood Charm, which makes that area easy as goblin pie.

Ori's combat is tedious and, quite frankly, boring. But that's fine because the games are different; HK focuses on combat while Ori focuses on platforming. And due to that reason, it's unbeliavable how they made SO many mistakes with enemy placement and added articial difficulty to the game.

In pure metroidvania-fashion, Hollow Knight reigns supreme due to combat being meaningful, fun and just being extremely good, while Ori doesn't shine on platforming which is it's forté. And yea, not to mention the combat in Ori again.

[AgentFlea]

^Sounds like the guy above just sucks ass at Ori.

I'm actually thinking about picking up Dead Cells instead. Hollow Knights combat looks really simple, and I'm not a fan of the grid-like simplistic platforming.



Honestly, it reminds me of Samus Returns. Sure it does everything well... but the twist in setting doesn't look like it makes up for it's standard combat, platform, exploration. Same wall jump section... same corridors, regular abilities.


One thing I like about Ori is the fluidity in the platforming. Sure it's harder to control, but (git gud) it's much more satisfying than your -WALK LIKE A STIFF BORING KHAKI WEARING GUY- of the HK - Walking down the same straight blocks I've seen in tons of other games.
Even MegaMan X and 20XX have more interesting platform sections.

Just look at the fluidity in AM2R: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA8pc37e-kY&t=50m18s



^A Metroid game that has both Atmosphere, and very fluid platforming.




>The lack of color for different areas makes HK look extra boring to me too.

I love hand-drawn, but the aesthetic is just so drab. Not enough contrast between areas + the standard looking gameplay is a killer. I get that it's supposed to be atmospheric but there's not enough contrast between different areas that make [u[ exploring this world [/b]

>I'm not as interested in exploring the world - because so many sections of the game look so same-y.

This is particularly bad because I hear the story and world is a major draw.

1. So the world and movement throughout the world looks standard/a little boring to me.
2. Again, the main character moves, jumps all stiff, in a grid-like pattern AND looks like this guy:

http://www.friv2017games.org/wp-content/uploads/thumbs/custom/D/Dad-N-Me.jpg


lol

I'm probably just worn out by same-y Metroidvanias.

[Bankai9212]

Outside of the slow movement in the beginning things pick up after. Thing is after playing both hollow knight has way more color and variety to it compared to ori. Visually ori is great but hollow knight stands out more. Combat starts out basic but the bosses and charms allow you to tweak your character in interesting ways. Plus in ori once you get the kick ability you use that for the rest of the game even with the triple/double jump unlocked.

[Cyseal]

Originally posted by Aegis:

^Sounds like the guy above just sucks ass at Ori.

Considering I died 13 times in Ori, I daresay that is major bullcrap what you're implying. And that's quite accurate, since it does come with a death counter. Even more reason to spot the obvious unfair parts in the game, which are plenty.

[AgentFlea]

Originally posted by Mikaelion:

Originally posted by Aegis:

^Sounds like the guy above just sucks ass at Ori.

Considering I died 13 times in Ori, I daresay that is major bullcrap what you're implying. And that's quite accurate, since it does come with a death counter. Even more reason to spot the obvious unfair parts in the game, which are plenty.

I just found your bitterness towards Ori pretty funny that's all. I've never heard someone sound so salty about freaking Ori, of all games lol. It ALMOST sounded like you were personally offended by it.

Plus I've never heard that complaint about Ori either, and I'm well into the game and haven't experienced any of the unfair poorly designed sections you're talking about so... :)



Picking up DeadCells instead.

I really hope Hollow Knight 1.5 or HK2 can change up the formula at least a little bit. Expand the world other than the same bug/dark look throughout the whole game.

The whole genre needs to evolve

[Bankai9212]

Originally posted by Aegis:

Originally posted by Mikaelion:

Considering I died 13 times in Ori, I daresay that is major bullcrap what you're implying. And that's quite accurate, since it does come with a death counter. Even more reason to spot the obvious unfair parts in the game, which are plenty.

I just found your bitterness towards Ori pretty funny that's all. I've never heard someone sound so salty about freaking Ori, of all games lol. It ALMOST sounded like you were personally offended by it.

Plus I've never heard that complaint about Ori either, and I'm well into the game and haven't experienced any of the unfair poorly designed sections you're talking about so... :)



Picking up DeadCells instead.

I really hope Hollow Knight 1.5 or HK2 can change up the formula at least a little bit. Expand the world other than the same bug/dark look throughout the whole game.

The whole genre needs to evolve

Name another game that use bugs as a bar or setting. Again the game isn't dark there's a good amount of variety to the game. How would you evolve it?

[AgentFlea]

Did you read my previous post?

The unique setting/aesthetic wasn't enough to draw me in
If I loved the world/aesthetic, then I would (like most people I'm sure) would overlook the very traditional gameplay.


Most people highlight the world as a standout.
I don't find the world interesting - bugs, same dark black/blue color grading - LACK OF COLOR
It looks cool at first, and it's definitely unique. But as I saw more gameplay it all just looked the same. Going down the same style corridors with minimal changes.

I expect a game as vast as this to be way more distinct in it's areas than it is. As well as changing up the colors/themes to contrast the dark/gothic tone.

You call that variety? Check out: Axiom Verge, Super Metroid, or especially Dust: Elysian Tail
Hell even Terraria's underground Biomes have more distinct textures and colors
that really makes it feel like a different place
The "dark, underground aesthetic" excuse can only work so far too.
Just check out this image: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f_04bBmIrF0/maxresdefault.jpg

The colors+tile textures in Terraria's underground alone are vastly different than most different sections in Hollow Knight.

I get that HK's world isn't supposed to be vibrant and lively, but still.

>The changes in backgrounds, and details of the areas don't make up for the lack of color and level-designs.

They look awesome too! The areas do look great. But the world overall just blend together too well. They must underestimate how effective contrast can be.

BUT! The Lake and Greenpath almost do this. Having added color and textures/backgrounds give it a much different look. I just wish they would have gone further with colored, more distinct places like that.

I've seen plenty of gameplay and most people wouldn't disagree that it's pretty standard as far as MetroidVania gameplay goes. It's just done really really really well.


^See Cuphead - Standard as hell gameplay, done very well. Carried by the aesthetic.
If you're "meh" about the art, then you probably won't be sold on it's gameplay

[Bankai9212]

But there are different tones and themes not just dark as you describe it. It blending together makes sense everything in the world has a purpose and feeds into each other. It's fine if you don't like how it's presented but to say environments have no variety is false. Also you never answered the last question about evolving the genre.

[Fracastador]

For the record, with regards to the "sameness" in hollow knight's areas, while this IS technically a valid complaint according to the in-depth reviews I have seen, I personally didn't notice, and I have read people who DO share this complaint with you mentioning that they only noticed it after they looked at the game in hindsight, and that it didn't seem to effect them during their initial playthrough.
Why that is, I cannot directly say, as I am lacking in understanding with that aspect of the aesthetics, but I imagine it's intentionally implemented.

[Firebee]

Originally posted by Bankai9212:

Outside of the slow movement in the beginning things pick up after. Thing is after playing both hollow knight has way more color and variety to it compared to ori. Visually ori is great but hollow knight stands out more. Combat starts out basic but the bosses and charms allow you to tweak your character in interesting ways. Plus in ori once you get the kick ability you use that for the rest of the game even with the triple/double jump unlocked.

It seem you're trying to defend Hollow Knight. Hollow Knight's art is simple it not detail and stunning like Ori if you say about the color in the game Ori has way more. While move around the map you can easily notice the world is changing around you. In Hollow Knight i hardly notice that except when i move to some area like Green Path or Crystal Peak. Anyway it seem you prefer Hollow Knight's art so i don't argue with it. Combat in Hollow Knight it simple bosses well they have different move pattern and attack pattern but that doesn't make me feel difficult to fight them. Charm build nah pretty much that you can easy cheese them with spell build after you get Howling Abyss and Abyss Shriek and in late game you can easily cut down any foe with few hit and art. About the Nail Arts and Spells pretty basic you don't need hit multiple correct buttons to perform the arts or cast the spell.
About platforming Hollow Knight's platforming pretty simple and easy to learn: wall jump, double jump, etc and nail bounce easy to learn and easy to perform. While in Ori most of ability you need to learn it and the devs place the learning phase and testing phase very well. Also you say after get bash ability you ignore the other ability for the rest of the game. Wrong, Ori use bash most of the time to solve puzzle and move but you need to use other abilities to reach some area or combine multiple abilities together to move through some area that don't have any objects to bash on.

[arejang]

The long and short of it is this: both games are great games. I want to support more of like games when possible.

Each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Neither is only pros with no cons.

I personally found HK more immersive, but there is something to be said about asking this question in an HK forum. Obviously most of us will have a bias.

I will promise you this. If you give HK a try with the mindset that you already hate it, then you're not likely to get a good experience from it. You need to be willing to give it a chance and appreciate the things it does well when you come across them to really enjoy the game.

Between ori and HK, HK has more content, so more bang for your buck, but there are more things to appreciate in a game than just content.

If you already made up your mind that HK isn't your game, then just move on. I strongly recommend this game to those who enjoy exploration and the style of narrative this game offers, but it's not a game for everyone, just like football isn't a sport everyone enjoys watching or sauerkraut isn't food everyone enjoys eating. Nothing wrong with that, but also not much point trying to convince someone who has made up their mind already.

[AgentFlea]

HK is still in my crosshairs. I'm just skipping it for now.
Just trying to explain why I'm such on the fence about it. I usually pick these kinds of games up no questions asked. Plus it's adding different opinions about it. Since everyone is so crazy about it, I figured I'd carefully explain why it's not drawing me in as much ^^