So about the Grimm (SPOILERS)

[Xavi-Da-Imp]

Since the last battle against the Nightmare King is looking awfully like the engagement with the Radiance what do you think is this DLC about?

Personally I think it is the same type of creature - a god like being with the power to influence the dreams of other, but instead useing the dreams of light and unity like the Radiance did, Grimm was lurking in shadows and nightmares. That could sugest that there are more creatures like Radiance and Grimm in the world... whatever the hell it suppose to be.

What are your thoughts about the plot for this DLC?

[Exray]

For me he is more like a passiva demon that collects the "Demon essence...?" The red essence.

[jyakimow]

I had a theory that the scarlet light, the 'nightmare flame', is a type of Dream Essence related to fear, dread, and nightmares. Grimm's journal entry mentions that the realm of dreams was split in two long ago - presumably, one realm is the dream realm that the Knight can visit with the dream nail, while the other is the realm of Nightmares.

Grimm comes to fallen kingdoms and consumes the fear of its populace that have collected in the area. Just as dream essence lingers on in the form of memories and ghosts and dream roots, the nightmare essence lingers in the form of the red flame, and Grimm uses it as a source of power.

As to Grimm's own origins, that's a good question. The Grimm we meet in Dirtmouth seems to be a vessel or avatar for the Nightmare King entity, similar to how the Hollow Knight contains the Radiance. Perhaps Grimm/Nightmare King was once a being like the Seer, who watched over the Nightmare Realm and became more powerful over time. Grimm might even be a Wyrm-born bug like the Pale King, watching over a 'kingdom' of grimmkin. We know that the phenomenon of Wyrms giving rise to bug kingdoms is not unique.

Or you could be right - he may indeed be a Radiance-tier divine entity.

[Exray]

Originally posted by jyakimow:

I had a theory that the scarlet light, the 'nightmare flame', is a type of Dream Essence related to fear, dread, and nightmares. Grimm's journal entry mentions that the realm of dreams was split in two long ago - presumably, one realm is the dream realm that the Knight can visit with the dream nail, while the other is the realm of Nightmares.

Grimm comes to fallen kingdoms and consumes the fear of its populace that have collected in the area. Just as dream essence lingers on in the form of memories and ghosts and dream roots, the nightmare essence lingers in the form of the red flame, and Grimm uses it as a source of power.

As to Grimm's own origins, that's a good question. The Grimm we meet in Dirtmouth seems to be a vessel or avatar for the Nightmare King entity, similar to how the Hollow Knight contains the Radiance. Perhaps Grimm/Nightmare King was once a being like the Seer, who watched over the Nightmare Realm and became more powerful over time. Grimm might even be a Wyrm-born bug like the Pale King, watching over a 'kingdom' of grimmkin. We know that the phenomenon of Wyrms giving rise to bug kingdoms is not unique.

Or you could be right - he may indeed be a Radiance-tier divine entity.

I think that the flames aren't the direct antithesis of the essence, it would be the antithesis of the dreams, ghosts, roots etc.
I think this because as far as I know the dreams, ghots, ghost warriors, dream bosses are all made of essence.
Meanwhile the red essence could make the flames.

[rato]

There's also a special dialogue with the White Lady if you talk to her while equipping the Grimmchild charm, she talks about how sad it is what Grimm is doing to Hallownest

[Exray]

Originally posted by ye boi:

There's also a special dialogue with the White Lady if you talk to her while equipping the Grimmchild charm, she talks about how sad it is what Grimm is doing to Hallownest

Bit after all Grimm is not doing anything, he is just feeding from the terror of the infection, but maybe he is the reason why the fear in Hallownest Kingdom exists.

[rato]

And if you dream nail him, he says something about "using this vessel to prolong Grimm's heart"
Maybe he feeds on the "passion" of the dance, much like his child... I don't know

[jyakimow]

Originally posted by Exray:

I think that the flames aren't the direct antithesis of the essence, it would be the antithesis of the dreams, ghosts, roots etc.
I think this because as far as I know the dreams, ghots, ghost warriors, dream bosses are all made of essence.
Meanwhile the red essence could make the flames.

I agree, I think the red essence is simply a variety of essence, another 'flavor' for lack of a better word. Essence is the energy that makes dreams, and nightmares are a type of dream after all.

The dream essence we've seen so far seems connected with memories of the past, perhaps the nightmare essence is connected with fears and worries about the future, or even the awful things that are happening in the present.

[Xavi-Da-Imp]

I wonder if the Knight would banish Radiance without dealing with Grimm - could it be that he might take over her place and bring something nastier than the Plauge to Hallownest?

[Wincent, The Hollow Knight]

Hmm...
But lets agree that the fight against Nightmare king grimm is SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ DIFFICULT!
Radiance has nothing on this bastard!

[Exray]

Originally posted by IFAngryPotato:

I wonder if the Knight would banish Radiance without dealing with Grimm - could it be that he might take over her place and bring something nastier than the Plauge to Hallownest?

Probably not, Grimm searches the flames passivly, he doesn't just scare the population and then got the Red Essence, he just waits the right moment to harvest the flames.
Also Grimm is not at the same level of The Radiance, you can beat The Radiance after get a ton of help from the sibbling.

[Wincent, The Hollow Knight]

Originally posted by Exray:

Originally posted by IFAngryPotato:

I wonder if the Knight would banish Radiance without dealing with Grimm - could it be that he might take over her place and bring something nastier than the Plauge to Hallownest?

Probably not, Grimm searches the flames passivly, he doesn't just scare the population and then got the Red Essence, he just waits the right moment to harvest the flames.
Also Grimm is not at the same level of The Radiance, you can beat The Radiance after get a ton of help from the sibbling.

I would say Grimm is way above Radiance in GAMEPLAY difficulty... (or atleast Nightmare King grimm)
While in lore is Radiance probably more powerfull than Nightmare king Grimm...

Tho that is just specculation.

[Exray]

Originally posted by Hive master:

Originally posted by Exray:

Probably not, Grimm searches the flames passivly, he doesn't just scare the population and then got the Red Essence, he just waits the right moment to harvest the flames.
Also Grimm is not at the same level of The Radiance, you can beat The Radiance after get a ton of help from the sibbling.

I would say Grimm is way above Radiance in GAMEPLAY difficulty... (or atleast Nightmare King grimm)
While in lore is Radiance probably more powerfull than Nightmare king Grimm...

Tho that is just specculation.

Yeah, without all the Sibblings and the Hollow Knight, it would be impossible to defeat her.

[Nothing]

Originally posted by Exray:

Originally posted by Hive master:

I would say Grimm is way above Radiance in GAMEPLAY difficulty... (or atleast Nightmare King grimm)
While in lore is Radiance probably more powerfull than Nightmare king Grimm...

Tho that is just specculation.

Yeah, without all the Sibblings and the Hollow Knight, it would be impossible to defeat her.

I'm not sure if Grimm even fought us with his full power. After all, his "horses" say "Another world", it would seem like the Troupe traverse through dimensions. The Nightmare King only fought for not losing a grip on this certain reality, while The Radiance was fighting for her life. I think he was only "playing" with us, watching (Brumm metions that) our fights with flames and fighting us himself.

[Wincent, The Hollow Knight]

Originally posted by kacper.cichy:

Originally posted by Exray:

Yeah, without all the Sibblings and the Hollow Knight, it would be impossible to defeat her.

I'm not sure if Grimm even fought us with his full power. After all, his "horses" say "Another world", it would seem like the Troupe traverse through dimensions. The Nightmare King only fought for not losing a grip on this certain reality, while The Radiance was fighting for her life. I think he was only "playing" with us, watching (Brumm metions that) our fights with flames and fighting us himself.

If this is Grimm just playing with us, do I REALLY not want to see him being serious.
(HE IS SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FAST!)

[Nothing]

Originally posted by Hive master:

Originally posted by kacper.cichy:

I'm not sure if Grimm even fought us with his full power. After all, his "horses" say "Another world", it would seem like the Troupe traverse through dimensions. The Nightmare King only fought for not losing a grip on this certain reality, while The Radiance was fighting for her life. I think he was only "playing" with us, watching (Brumm metions that) our fights with flames and fighting us himself.

If this is Grimm just playing with us, do I REALLY not want to see him being serious.
(HE IS SO ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ FAST!)

I mean, that's just my theory, but he himself says that "they didn't have such a performance for a long time" about the crowd in the first fight. The second fight also has the crowd, do you think that since Grimm is their master they would just stare at his demise if the fight was serious?