Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight

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Kaice Aug 5, 2017 @ 4:03pm
Steel Soul SUCKS
5h into the game in steel soul mode, goes into the palace thats unlocked after 200 essence, remembers its just a bunch of ghosts that offer free essence, dream slash one of the ghost some random ghost with swords starts flying all over the place, kills me in 4 hits. Never playing steel soul again.
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Showing 16-25 of 25 comments
Evoxrus XV Aug 6, 2017 @ 10:35am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I don't know how ppl go through the game 100% in steel soul mode, most of the bosses are ridiculously OP and it's hard to focus when your enemy can teleport without restrictions. The game really doesn't help you to learn the gameplay either.
Simple, abuse the bench mechanic. Fighting a boss and you are on your last mask? Nope out of there, quit the game and then re-load and you are now in the safety of your bench with full mask health.
Last edited by Evoxrus XV; Aug 6, 2017 @ 10:35am
Shucks Aug 6, 2017 @ 10:38am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I don't know how ppl go through the game 100% in steel soul mode, most of the bosses are ridiculously OP and it's hard to focus when your enemy can teleport without restrictions. The game really doesn't help you to learn the gameplay either.

Honestly the game is 100% fair and gives you so much room to recover and not die. Not many games full out give 2-3 easy heal points per boss fight like HollowKnight does but most people don't use that time to heal instead they hit the boss.

You can easily beat most bosses without getting hit (except for maybe lost kin, radiance, new dream bosses, and the soul dream boss unless you're really good). Like most games you learn through experience or trial and error.
Omegatherion Aug 6, 2017 @ 10:50am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I don't know how ppl go through the game 100% in steel soul mode, most of the bosses are ridiculously OP and it's hard to focus when your enemy can teleport without restrictions. The game really doesn't help you to learn the gameplay either.

I did Steel Soul 100% and i only exited to the menu once against the Crystal Guardian. Actually it is not as hard as it seems at first.
You have to know the game well, though. Just do whatever is to do in an "optimal" order. Save the tougher areas and bosses for later, when you already have a couple of Health/Nail-Upgrades and stronger Spells.
Make yure you get all the upgrades ASAP. As you can sell Rancid Eggs for a nice amount of money, you can even buy all the stuff from Sly and Salubra earlier.
Use optimal Charm-Combos for the bosses. If not sure, you might reference to a guide for that part.
And most of all: Get used to the physics of the game before! If you are able to control your character properly, you can avoid a lot of damage and use your Soul for Spells instead of wasting it on healing. Most of the bosses are a cakewalk when you are able to spam your magic.
Rei Scarlette Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:08am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
My problem with spells is that each time I try to depend on them I usually fail too early. For example the descending dark spell is good but only against non-flying enemies. The shade soul was only useful in the colosseum(primal aspids...). When I try to use the abyss shriek against flying enemies I usually die. For example this article: http://hollowknight.wikia.com/wiki/Abyss_Shriek says that the spell has 120 DMG with the shaman stone, but when I've tried to use 4-5 of that on bosses with 300-350 HP they always survived. So, the only two tactics working for me was either tank the damage with high dmg output charms or be super cautious and concentrate on healing.

Then it seems like you must not be hitting the enemy with the full spell. As the page you just linked stated, Abyss Shriek hits 4 times, for a total of 120 damage with the Shaman Stone. If you use it but happen to be in a poor position for it, then it will be a lot weaker as not all 4 hits will take effect on the enemy. All of the damage and HP values listed on the wiki are accurate.

And no, the game doesn't really take super reflexes either. My first 30 or so hours in this game were on a laptop with really poor specs, and all of my inputs had literally a half-second delay on them. I was still able to beat the Failed Champion who attacks extremely quickly and is very aggressive. You just need to not be reckless in your attack strategy against bosses, which is kind of what you said at the end there, but you don't really have to go full-defensive.
Last edited by Rei Scarlette; Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:14am
Omegatherion Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:22am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
So, it requires precise planning and most importantly: super reflexes, right? Before this game, I thought I've good reflexes...

Of course it does. It is supposed to be a challenge after all.
Yes, it is not something for everyone. When i first played through HK, i also had some trouble with bosses and tough areas (don´t even speak about the colloseum), so that i did not even want to try Steelsoul, for the same reasons as you.

As for the reflexes. You don´t need supernatural reflexes to take on the challenges of this game. Just learning the patterns from the bosses helps immensely. You don´t need your reflexes as much, if you are prepared for what your enemies might throw at you.
For example the Brooding Mawlek boss. This guy literally destroyed me like 5 or 6 times before i quit the game. The next day i tried again, now learning to use my abilities better, memorizing the patterns and i easily killed this thing in two more tries.
This game is more about learning and memorizing. It isdifficult at first and some patterns are more difficult to learn and predict, but once you get the hang of a boss, you can just breeze through it like it was nothing.

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
My problem with spells is that each time I try to depend on them I usually fail too early. For example the descending dark spell is good but only against non-flying enemies. The shade soul was only useful in the colosseum(primal aspids...). When I try to use the abyss shriek against flying enemies I usually die. For example this article: http://hollowknight.wikia.com/wiki/Abyss_Shriek says that the spell has 120 DMG with the shaman stone, but when I've tried to use 4-5 of that on bosses with 300-350 HP they always survived.

Getting your spells of at the right time can be tricky at first, because you have take the movement of your enemies into account. I only started using magic on later playthroughs and barely used it at all the first time around, because of that. Don´t know about the boss issue, though. I never experienced something like that.

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
So, the only two tactics working for me was either tank the damage with high dmg output charms or be super cautious and concentrate on healing.

That is exactly what got me through the first time. As stupid as it sounds, but being cautious gives you even more time to practice the bossfights, because they take longer. And practice is what you need, if you want to take on the challenge that is Steelsoul.
Rei Scarlette Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:39am 
It's not enough to just be under the enemy, they need to also not move out of the spell's hit-zone until all four hits have happened. I'm not sure if you already knew that, but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case, because a lot of enemies can get pushed away by the first hit. And if you get hit before the spell finishes, that just ends it right away as well. If you already know all that, and you're still not having any luck with the spells, I'm not sure what else could be going wrong. I'd have to see it happening to have better input on that unfortunately. Sorry if that was not much help.

Failed Champion is much easier once you learn his moveset and understand how to dodge him properly. Once you've got that down you can gain a lot of momentum in the fight and defeat him much more easily. I struggled with him for quite a while, but eventually everything just clicked and I managed to do it, and I only got hit once that time. And like I said this was on my old laptop with a half-second delay on inputs, so I'm sure you can do it if you keep working at it.

About the reflex thing, I don't know what else to tell you then, honestly. I literally just said I completed the vast majority of the game with a half-second input delay. The best reflexes in the world won't do anything for you if you're a whole half-second behind no matter what you do, it's not a matter of needing insane reflexes at all.

Edit: changed a couple things for spelling and more detail
Last edited by Rei Scarlette; Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:45am
Rei Scarlette Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:54am 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
That would make the spell useless against all bosses since they constantly move.
...
That was my other guess but still the spell is better to be forgotten.

Actually I agree for the most part, I don't even use it. It could potentially be good in speedruns where high level players can easily predict when and where the boss will be, to use it to its full potential, but I have not watched a run of this game yet and I don't know if it is worth the time it takes to go out and obtain it. It's probably skipped.

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I know how he moves and how to dodge but it's hard to stay alert for so long since it has a lot of HP and does 2 masks dmg.

Yeah, Failed Champion is quite a pain, absolutely. I honestly don't remember how many tries it took me to defeat him, he is a lot easier now with much experience but he's like a brick wall when I first found him.

Edit: I would highly recommend the Shade Cloak for Failed Champion, if you don't already have it. I did not have it the first time around, but now I see that it could be very useful and give you a lot more room for error because you can dash through his attacks to escape.

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
With half-second delay you won't beat the soul tyrant. I feel like even 10% delay would have killed me against the dream bosses. TBH, super reflexes are not enough: one needs to bear the stress when fighting against the stronger bosses and in the colosseum because the fights are long and there are lot of places where mistakes are almost inevitable.

I actually did everything up to and including the White Palace before I finally got my better PC. Soul Tyrant has a lot of stuff going on, but the only projectiles that matter are the ones that are going to hit you. I know that sounds kinda stupid, and I don't know a better way to really describe it, but you can sort of ignore like half of them once you know how their speed and trajectory works.

You are quite correct in that some of the harder bosses can be a bit stressful though, no doubt about that. And the colosseum is among the worst places for that as well.
Last edited by Rei Scarlette; Aug 6, 2017 @ 11:57am
Shucks Aug 6, 2017 @ 12:17pm 
The upward spell does so much damage and it's actually so easy to hit depending on the boss.

The spell rips apart hornet, failed champion, radiance, the last boss, The second collesium bosses, Flukemarm, Uumuu, and majority of dream warriors (mini bosses). You can literally beat dream warriors in a few hits of that spell with the shaman stone it's stupid OP.
Rei Scarlette Aug 6, 2017 @ 12:28pm 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I've that. I've everything except the last mask, the vessel, the kingsoul and the void heart. How about sharp shadow?

If you have Sharp Shadow as well, I definitely recommend it, one of the best charms I could use against him. The damage it does is okay, but the best part about it I'd say is the extended shadow dash distance. For me, anyways, that is incredibly helpful. Failed Champion is a pretty big guy, so without it, it can be hard to dash through him. So that kinda leaves you only able to dash away in the opposite direction most of the time.

But with Sharp Shadow equipped, you can make that distance way easier, and you'll get a little free damage done to him while you're at it. Not much, but every little bit helps, right? And if you end up behind him, he can't swing at you without turning around, so he'll probably jump, which makes him just a little bit more predictable. He can still swing, but I find that he likes to turn after jumping most of the time, not on the ground usually. I hope some of that is helpful, it really made a big difference in my own fights with him.

Originally posted by Reimilia Scarlet:
How did you manage to get through phase 2?! That was the only hard part with the soul tyrant and I can't imagine how could someone get through that with an 500ms delay...

That was a big pain actually, and I had to try several times before I even got close. Doesn't help that you need to go all through phase 1 to have another shot of practicing phase 2... So first I saved up as much soul as I could in the first phase, so that I could try to be fully healed before phase 2. I also had Hiveblood equipped, because there's almost no chance to heal once phase 2 starts. I can't remember the other charms I had equipped, maybe Stalwart Shell so I don't get hit too many times in a row, Nailmaster's Glory, and Grubsong. And... Soul Catcher? I believe that makes 10 slots.

He's a huge pain because I still don't know how to tell if he's going to slam the ground right away or do a fakeout first. In the end, because of the delay, I had to assume he was always going to slam on the first attempt, and if it was a fakeout, quickly do a Desolate Dive because I already wasted my midair dash trying to dodge the fakeout. When he stops to use the projectiles, I just hoped I had a good bit of health remaining and went full offensive on him to take him out as quickly as possible. Still hard though, because even if some of the projectiles are at an angle that will miss you, you have to be pretty quick to avoid the other ones. I think it took two or three waves of this before he went down. On the third wave I spammed all the rest of my soul on Abyss Shrieks, and that's about the only time I ever put the spell to use.
Rei Scarlette Aug 6, 2017 @ 12:59pm 
Originally posted by OriginalUserName:
I've used quick focus, deep focus and mark of pride first then as I've realized that phase2 is better to be "tanked" due to the projectiles coming out of nowhere(the dives were really easy) I just put on fragile strength and he was dead in a few seconds. I'd a pure nail btw.
How can you use nail arts btw? Even with nailmasters glory I always get hit.

For Nail Arts, I never use Cyclone Slash except in very specific situations, like when the Hollow Knight is in that phase where he stabs himself multiple times (trying to rid himself of the infection?) is a good chance for it as he won't move or retaliate, and you can get the full 7 hits. I also use it for Radiance but only during certain moves - ones that come slowly and aren't near the boss's body are a good time to jump right at Radiance and use it because the boss doesn't deal contact damage.

For Great Slash and Dash Slash, I mostly hold the charge while dodging other things (like during Soul Tyrant's slamming) and let the move go as soon as they are in a vulnerable position - like using the Soul Tyrant for example again, as soon as he teleports away to start spamming projectiles, I'll follow him and hith with a Dash Slash only once, as soon as I see him reappear. For bosses like the Collector, I sort of play keep-away with them because he has a specific movement pattern (only jumping) and I turn and release a Great Slash after he lets out an attack, or as soon as he drops down, but never in the middle of his movement or he's just going to bump into me.

It's something like that, pretty much. There are a lot of bosses where I personally find the Nail Arts are just not worth using and I favor Quick Slash instead - I only keep Nailmaster's Glory around because it just takes one slot, and there is the occasional opening like that, but they're never my main source of damage.
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Date Posted: Aug 5, 2017 @ 4:03pm
Posts: 25