Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight

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esco1979 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 10:47
Quotes of the Radiance & Lore (MAJOR SPOILERS):
Since I'm very curious about the lore of this game, I decided to go thru the AGONY of using the dream needle against the Radiance. Until I saw what should be all of its dialogue (I spent a good 2 hours total hitting him with it and didn't see any others). It says some.... interesting stuff:

1)ANCIENT ENEMY
2)I DO NOT FEAR YOU
3)THE LIGHT CANNOT BE CONSUMED
4)LET ME BE FREE
5)DAWN WILL BREAK
6)I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN

Yes, they are in all caps like that.

This, coupled with what the Seer says when your dream needle hits 2400+, followed by the Wyrm (who is also the king; according to the seer) trying to seal the radiance, followed by your character being a creature of pure darkness from the void leads me to believe that the real bad guy.... is you.

Yes, the Radiance is responsible for the plague... but that only started after the king tried to usurp it as god and people started following him. It tried to creep back into the bug's minds to let them know, "Yes I do exist, yes I did create you all and yes I am your true god." And was blocked out because of people's blind faith in a king... their mind resisting this truth resulted in some nasty side effects inflicted on them (there is even an entry about an enemy that says that maybe the cause of the plague and the effect it had was something inside the bug's themselves). Possibly even being an intended punishment by the radiance for their in-graciousness towards it or even for their use of the soul in magic which it may NOT have been ok with. The soul seeming to be the light variant of magic, which would be something I'd assume would be the Radiance's power. While shade magic is of the abyss; the counterpart and enemy of the Radiance.

This leads to the king turning to the Radiance's ancient enemy: the creatures of darkness from the void. He uses the hollow knight as a vessel and convinces 3 others to act as keys to the place where the Hollow Knight will be locked away with the Radiance within (one of whom even takes steps so that she can be awakened eventually and ensure that the hero can reach the hollow knight and either repeat the cycle or slay the Radiance; either of which would be a winning scenario for the king). After doing this, he promptly seals off the away to the abyss too.

Which leaves one big question: where is the king? We can guess that the reason our character does what does is because of the mask he wears. Which was probably made by the Mask Maker upon the king's request and then placed onto countless Siblings from the Abyss. In the hopes that one of them would as I said above succeed in either renewing the seal or destroying the Radiance. Obviously by the # of corpses in the abyss, countless #'s of them fail for what seems like a LONG time before our character comes along.

Anyway, what does everybody else here think about this whole mess?
最後修改者:esco1979; 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 11:02
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esco1979 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 10:50 
There is one final VERY big question that comes up: who is the mushroom? His achievement CLEARLY says "uncover the true mastermind." Which is pretty ominous and infers that he set all of this in motion. Could he be the wyrm/king in his newest form? Or some other cosmic entity? Are there any clues in game about him because I didn't see any.
Kyutaru 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 10:55 
The Radiance may be a metaphor for emotions and you're struggling with it yourself. You're the personification of calm logic, no mind, no emotions, no fear. Just cool, clear thought and action.
Vladimir 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 11:53 
On the other hand, there are major hints that before the King came, bugs did not have conscious thought and individuality, and they lived as a hivemind of sorts. In particular, there are comparisons of the bee hive with Radiance. Therefore it is kinda arguable whether getting rid of Radiance is a bad thing. Sure, it was responsible for creation of bugs (although, if you read closely, we know for sure that it was responsible for creation of the moths clan which the Seer belongs to, it is not actually stated that *all* bugs were created by it), but on the other hand it prevented the bugs from having true consciousness.
アゼム 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 11:58 
引用自 esco1979
There is one final VERY big question that comes up: who is the mushroom? His achievement CLEARLY says "uncover the true mastermind." Which is pretty ominous and infers that he set all of this in motion. Could he be the wyrm/king in his newest form? Or some other cosmic entity? Are there any clues in game about him because I didn't see any.
The Avatar of the game devs. Capable of making and unmaking the world at a whim.
アゼム 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 12:00 
Yeah but is allowing the Radiance to infect the minds of everyone and destroying everything much better? You could say that the vessels were created with something very bad, to cover up something even worse. But I wouldn't say that the actions of the character are bad.

It may not have started this way in the past, but at this point it's safe to say the Radiance is very malicious
最後修改者:アゼム; 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 12:00
esco1979 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 12:49 
引用自 Kein Zantezuken
引用自 esco1979
that the real bad guy.... is you.

Not really.
See:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/367520/discussions/0/135510194252617336/#c135510669601393335
and
https://steamcommunity.com/app/367520/discussions/0/135510194252617336/#c135510669601665162

You've skipped a lot of crucial info

Yes, I read thru that thread. It's got some good stuff in it and I like a good number of your theories. But I still haven't seen any concrete evidence that the Radiance originally robbed bugs of intellect (as in before the king came along). I don't remember seeing any text that clearly stated that the radiance did this. If I missed something in game though, by all means feel free to show me a pic.

If anything, it could be that the king just chose to enlighten bug kind on technology and things that the Radiance never taught them. That could be what was meant by "minds expanded."
ChonkyRat 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 2:24 
引用自 esco1979
There is one final VERY big question that comes up: who is the mushroom? His achievement CLEARLY says "uncover the true mastermind." Which is pretty ominous and infers that he set all of this in motion. Could he be the wyrm/king in his newest form? Or some other cosmic entity? Are there any clues in game about him because I didn't see any.

it doesnt infer, it implies.

we infer it.
Vladimir 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 4:46 
引用自 esco1979
There is one final VERY big question that comes up: who is the mushroom? His achievement CLEARLY says "uncover the true mastermind." Which is pretty ominous and infers that he set all of this in motion. Could he be the wyrm/king in his newest form? Or some other cosmic entity? Are there any clues in game about him because I didn't see any.
I may also happen that he is a just a joke character after all)
Nazara 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 4:56 
I agree with your thoughts and opinions Esco and have shared them myself for awhile. We are the bad guy. We betrayed our merciful goddess for the Pale Light!

Radiance did not give us / took away our sentience so that we did not have to worry about choices. She protected us from the burden of independence. How did we repay her? By casting her aside for the Pale Light. By forgetting the mercy she showed us. By letting her light rot away inside a prison while we stand by with our "consciousness".

Kill the heretics! Protect the light! Destroy the void!
Kyutaru 2017 年 3 月 7 日 上午 7:27 
引用自 esco1979
There is one final VERY big question that comes up: who is the mushroom? His achievement CLEARLY says "uncover the true mastermind." Which is pretty ominous and infers that he set all of this in motion. Could he be the wyrm/king in his newest form? Or some other cosmic entity? Are there any clues in game about him because I didn't see any.

it doesnt infer, it implies.

we infer it.
+1
esco1979 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:11 
it doesnt infer, it implies.

we infer it.

There isn't a word in the English language for how little I care. Go play grammar nazi somewhere else. Lol

引用自 RAWR
I agree with your thoughts and opinions Esco and have shared them myself for awhile. We are the bad guy. We betrayed our merciful goddess for the Pale Light!

Radiance did not give us / took away our sentience so that we did not have to worry about choices. She protected us from the burden of independence. How did we repay her? By casting her aside for the Pale Light. By forgetting the mercy she showed us. By letting her light rot away inside a prison while we stand by with our "consciousness".

Kill the heretics! Protect the light! Destroy the void!

Lol I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic.

There is one point I do want to address in your post: the part where you say she took away the bug's sentience. I mentioned this bit to Kain above too because I don't remember there being ANYTHING in the game that says she originally did that. More like when she created them she didn't give them much intellect overall (like you also mentioned). Perhaps the goal was to let them evolve naturally over time? Who knows. And not that it matters. Once the Pale king showed up, he changed everything.

The void also brings up a LOT of questions. I wonder if it's something the Pale king engineered too? Seeing as how there seem to be pearls lying around shattered below that seem to be the source of the dark energy (while you use the dream nail on one you can see what appears to be others lying around in the background here and there too I believe). Or if the void is just what existed before even the Radiance came and brought forth life which I doubt because the creatures there seem to be remnants/memories of the dead. So unless they are from life that existed before the bugs this wouldn't make sense as there would have been nothing there to die before.

引用自 DPX-Infinity
Sure, it was responsible for creation of bugs (although, if you read closely, we know for sure that it was responsible for creation of the moths clan which the Seer belongs to, it is not actually stated that *all* bugs were created by it)

I remember there being something else in game referring to the Radiance creating bug kind. But I'm not 100% sure on this. I'll keep my eyes open the next time I play thru it. :)

BTW as for the Mushroom, yeah I was thinking the same thing at first. This thing is an easter egg, a joke character. Not related to the story at all. Then I saw the achievement name.... the true mastermind. It can't be called that for no reason. Someone else above said he is the avatar of the creators, which at first sounded like a very plausible explanation. Except as far as I know, I've NEVER seen them use him anywhere else as a mascot. So I'm not 100% convinced that was their intent with him either.
最後修改者:esco1979; 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:15
Kein Zantezuken 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:19 
Only moth tribe were descendants of Radiance. At least that much confirmed.
esco1979 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 1:21 
引用自 Kein Zantezuken
Only moth tribe were descendants of Radiance. At least that much confirmed.

Source?
Nazara 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 4:59 
I think Kein meant to say that only Moths have been confirmed as coming from Radiance. However, I remember an excerpt that says all bugs came from Radiance.. have to look it up.
最後修改者:Nazara; 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 4:59
Mister Veeg 2017 年 3 月 7 日 下午 5:03 
I still go for the whole "Wyrm immortality gambit gone terribly wrong/right" type of theory. Based on the one dream nail dialogue in the Fungal Core and the entire spiel of "No price too great, no mind to break, no will to bend" during the lil' flashback.
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張貼日期: 2017 年 3 月 6 日 下午 10:47
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