Please, make an easier difficulty

[fiftydwarves]

Dear developers, you managed to create a really interesting game that pulls you in and makes you really want to beat it. This is cool. The boss fights in it are challenging and interesting. This is also cool. The problem is, you don't value my time and my emotions, and this is not cool at all.

Being a person with badish reflexes, it takes me, say, 10+ attempts to beat a boss. And the thing I really don't enjoy is to trudge to them for several minutes and be forced to fight several enemies along the way to get another chance, which I'll most likely blow out of sheer frustration.

I admire your resolve in making a difficult game, but there's difficulty and then there's difficulty. If you look at Dark Souls 3, you will notice that it is hard, yes, but also that it tries its best to not be frustrating. Every bossfight has a savepoint close by, and you can just run past all the enemies to get to the bossfight from it, if you so desire. If not, by all means, you can fight them. But there's no such choice in Hollow Knight.

It takes around 1:30 to get to Brooding Mawlek from the nearest bench. It takes even more, plus several fights you'll most likely lose your health in, to get to the Soul Master. Just... why?

Please, make an option to enable an easier difficulty, where you could fight the bosses again immediately after losing, and where you wouldn't have to navigate half a map to get to hard platforming bits (I'm assuming there will be some hard platforming in the future). More enjoyment, less frustration. Cheers.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Clockwork:

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

Second: the checkpoimts are the benchs, and ofc you have to return to the boss if you fail, a checkpoint in front of a boss would be so artificial would take away from the point of thinking and carefully playing each fight since everyone would just ran into the boss until they for some planet alignment win, would take away the sense of preparing, would take away the psicological punishment of losing, would take away the risk of having made that travel for nothing, would take away the thought playthrough some players do in order to not having to repeat the travel.

I also feel that the distance of the benches adds some weight to losing.

If you just *bam* right outside the boss room the game would lose some of the gravatus. what would even be the penalty if a bench was right outside a boss room?

Yeah, thats what im trying to explain, you would just start up right in front of your shade, kill it and done, and as i said people would just junp mindlessly because they dont have anything to lose

[Mighty Manaty]

You could go the Dark Souls route. There is no difficulty mode, but there are multiple ways integrated in the game to adapt to different skill levels:

Playing a ranged character is much easier than a melee one. Armored melee with blocking is easier then light armor with evasion and parrying.

When a boss fight is too hard/frustrating players can summon other players or phantoms.

Some aspects of Hollow Knight already work in that direction. The weapon upgrade and charm system are good examples.

I don't see, why tweaking the difficulty, especially with methods similar to the above mentioned ones, would worsen the game.
Almost nobody would be complaining, if a harder difficutly was added. If that was good to implement, however, the same would have to apply to an easier one.

[TheBrightKing]

I dont see the summon thing working here, summoning other players as hollows when you have the void heart would make sense, but something else or without the need of the void heart is just not lore friendly and would cause the chosen one effect, where two chosen ones meet in a lore unfriendly multiplayer mode, that just shows how forced it is that mode.

Nor i see ranged or heavy classes, if you cant beat something change charms, or search for some that may be useful.

Adding difficulty option would just harm greatly the game, it has built a world, and if you go to another place irl you dont have a "choose difficulty" option, it would just destroy the great inmersion it has created.

Also, the world is build like that, the world is not going to adapt to you, you have to adapt to it, and adding other difficulty options would just adapt the world to the less skilled players, and that would harm the game.

[fiftydwarves]

1. I don't see how making the game more accessible to the less skilled players would harm it. FFS if I wanted to 'improve myself', I'd bloody learn a language or learn to play piano. I came here to have fun, not to grind the path to the boss again and again.

2. There was a suggestion to make a 'spawn at bosses' toggle and bury it in the options. So your precious immersion (which is laughable, one choice in the beginning would ruin an immersion for you and make your game unplayable?) would be fine.

3. I don't think that ALMOST nobody would be complaining if the lesser difficulty is added. I think NOBODY would be complaining, despite the heavy presence of hardcore kids on this block protecting their ability to git good. Having a difficulty choice is the most natural thing in the world. Also, hell, the developers could throw in a hard mode where you respawn at the maximum distance to the boss and have to go to them for 5+ minuites. That would add some weight to your losing alright.

4. Sadly, all the ways that modify the game heavily are absolutely unrealistic. So that 'spawn at bosses' toggle seems like the most reasonable option.

[TheBrightKing]

1. I see it, part of the charm is that you are on a dangerous world and you have to adapt to it, adding a difficulty option would adapt the world to the player instead of making you adapt to the world. It would erase completely the feeling of being powerless at the start and the feeling of the world being dangerous.
If you are not having fun then dont play, but dont pretend your opinion is the best for everyone. The game is accessible for everyone since its fair, your lack of patience, will, practice and preparation is no one elses fault. The game is accessible for the less skilled players if they are willing to improve instead of going to the forums because some random boss damaged his tiny ego.

2. Are you kidding me? Are you truly serous? Losing against a boss is losing all your money and having to walk back; thats the RISK you take, if you spawn in front of it youll get all your money back right before spawning and youll have NO handocap for dying against a boss; oh my gash this guy is serious, no thanks, a game based in a dangerous and harsh world transformed into a cakewalk? There is no way this can happen.

3. Please stop with this right now "hardcore kids" this is the moment when you cross the line and start disrespecting everyone with different opinions because your arguments are sinking? The benches are the checkpoints, and they are placed where in a world like this they should be, the bosses live in a place theyve chosen, sometimes they are near, sometimes they arent, its part of the concept, the inmersion, the fun and the risk. No; we dont want a difficult mode with more distances between benches and bosses, we want the game as it is now, harsh but fair, no easy no difficult mode, no adaptations of the world for different players, the players shall adapt to it, thats part of the fun.

4 No its not the most reasonable option, in fact its the less reasonable option, no risk no nothing, the boss fights that are supposed to be challenging transformed in the easiest part of the game, what a joke.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by PissedGroundhog:

@fiftydwarves is asking for an easy option. Why all the debats about this?

The devs are the only one able to answer if an easy level if possible. All of your opinions on the subject weight very little in the "maybe possible" senario. Devs are the only one being able to answer this question.

I don't understand how an option in the menu for "easy" will ruin the experience since we know "normal" mode are the intended way to play.

This game is difficult and as a result, may draw people away from it. I don't see it a problem to allow more people to play it at a lower difficulty. This can only result in more sale. I want a sequel to this game if possible but it won't happen with 50k copies sold to this date (source steamspy).

I myself have a busy life and I respect @fiftydwarves request to being able to enjoy the game and not have to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ "git gud" at it. This is the most short sited answer anybody can give and you clearly have a very narrow visions and point of view of the subject.

Nier Automata (AAA) have a 'auto mode' for chris sake. What is the problem with that beside bringing more people to enjoy the game? Does it break your experience if you play normal or hard that someone else is playing at easy? How is this affecting your lives?

Now final point, this is JUST A GAME.... Stop having a heart attack every time someone ask for something you don't see fit. It doesn't mean it will be done (again, devs only response, none of you in this tread) and it is only a request. If your life depend on the 'difficulty level' of a GAME which is made to HAVE FUN and not proof your worth, you will ALWAYS be unhappy.

fiftydwarves I support your request 100%.

So you only understand videogames as products with no value besides that, okey its clear

Everyone can enjoy this game, the problem is that the game already is accessible for everyone, for everyone willing to improve instead of waiting for someone else like the devs to solve it for them.

The game is built to be thought, thats why theres no difficulty option: because its intended for the player to adapt to the world, not the world adapting to the player.

You seem to fail to ubderstand this, and thats a positive this game has, what hes asking for is a way to make the bosses, that are supposed to be challenging, the easiest part of the game.

As i said everyone can enjoy this game, everyone who wants to hone their skills and have a good time doing so.

Finally let me say that that "accessible for less skilled players" joke its just that, everyone starts this game being "less skilled" but you learn, thats part of the beauty of that world, you have to if you want to survive.

[fiftydwarves]

Originally posted by Mr.Striker:

3. Please stop with this right now "hardcore kids" this is the moment when you cross the line and start disrespecting everyone with different opinions because your arguments are sinking?

Figurative, not literal. But you're absolutely right, I can't for a second respect a 'Ugghhh, this game works for me, so it shouldn't work for other people even if it requires just minor tweaks and wouldn't detract from my experience' opinion. Options are options. Choice is always good. It's like coming into McDonalds, seeing that there's only one item on the menu and defending it, because all hardcore eaters eat only cheeseburgers.

Are you saying you're so weak-willed you'll enable it yourself given a chance, and it'll ruin the game for you? No one forces you to use options. No one forces you to go to the settings and enable something that's disabled by default. Why does having an option bothers you? Are you a dictator in the making or something?

[4thQueen]

By the same coin, should you not respect the developer's intent? If they want players to do things a certain way, ie: not make their game a cakewalk, is that so bad? Should all games be made available for all people? I think it's fine if a game doesn't appeal to everyone. I don't expect Kirby games to be difficult, and I don't expect Dark Souls games to be easy. Yet I can enjoy both.

Perhaps you should try to experience the game the developers want you to experience. And if you decide you don't like that experience, that is fine as well.

[fiftydwarves]

Originally posted by 4thQueen:

By the same coin, should you not respect the developer's intent? If they want players to do things a certain way, ie: not make their game a cakewalk, is that so bad? Should all games be made available for all people? I think it's fine if a game doesn't appeal to everyone. I don't expect Kirby games to be difficult, and I don't expect Dark Souls games to be easy. Yet I can enjoy both.

Perhaps you should try to experience the game the developers want you to experience. And if you decide you don't like that experience, that is fine as well.

Well, I respect that. But the thing is, for quite a lenghty bit this game pretends to be something else. The first bosses are easy. The bench is right in front of the Hornet boss battle. And then SUDDENLY you have to traverse half a level to get to the boss. But it isn't marketed as a game for hardcore players only. If it was, I wouldn't buy it in the first place. If they teased this mechanic in the first two hours, I'd have refunded. But it just appears after about twelve hours and is like, yeah, I live with you now. Um, no?

The thing is, if the developers are adamant about their vision - sure, whatever, I had a bit of fun with HK and I'm grateful all the same. If not, this tweak is really minor, so it won't be too hard to implement.

But it's for them to decide, and not for us. So I'm assuming they're open-minded about it.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by 4thQueen:

By the same coin, should you not respect the developer's intent? If they want players to do things a certain way, ie: not make their game a cakewalk, is that so bad? Should all games be made available for all people? I think it's fine if a game doesn't appeal to everyone. I don't expect Kirby games to be difficult, and I don't expect Dark Souls games to be easy. Yet I can enjoy both.

Perhaps you should try to experience the game the developers want you to experience. And if you decide you don't like that experience, that is fine as well.

Well, the main issue at least that I have (and have pointed out multiple times in this and other threads) is that as Jim Sterling so succinctly put it in regards to another game -- this game shows of disrespect toward the player’s time. You say to respect the devs' intent but in my opinion they don't really respect us (or at least, a good subset of us).
Sure they claim the Dark Souls influence right off the bat, but that doesn't excuse many many extra hours of play time that's really just padding. I did after 23 hours -- /23 hours in an exploration platformer game/ with no where being close to done -- give up, ironically at probably the closest boss to a bench, because the ghost spawns right in the room and you can't kill it before the boss starts attacking. Which means you actually take hits from the boss's attacks because of the ghost -- I can't fathom how anyone could consider this 'good gameplay'. It's pure BS and it's not the only spot it happens.
And tha'ts what it boils down to I think -- not the difficulty per se but just the sheer slog. A hard jumping puzzle is a good thing -- a hard jumping puzzle where you have limited tries before you have to waste a minute to try again is NOT (especially in ones where you can easily get hit and fall into spikes, losing two hearts in one go). A difficult boss is fine....a difficult boss that's harder because you died? That's ass backwards.

[4thQueen]

Originally posted by fiftydwarves:

But it just appears after about twelve hours and is like, yeah, I live with you now. Um, no?

You are now arguing against a difficulty curve. Also, I'm having a very hard time thinking of any boss that isn't thirty seconds away from a bench.

Originally posted by Melodia:

Well, the main issue at least that I have (and have pointed out multiple times in this and other threads) is that as Jim Sterling so succinctly put it in regards to another game -- this game shows of disrespect toward the player’s time. You say to respect the devs' intent but in my opinion they don't really respect us (or at least, a good subset of us).
Sure they claim the Dark Souls influence right off the bat, but that doesn't excuse many many extra hours of play time that's really just padding. I did after 23 hours -- /23 hours in an exploration platformer game/ with no where being close to done -- give up, ironically at probably the closest boss to a bench, because the ghost spawns right in the room and you can't kill it before the boss starts attacking. Which means you actually take hits from the boss's attacks because of the ghost -- I can't fathom how anyone could consider this 'good gameplay'. It's pure BS and it's not the only spot it happens.
And tha'ts what it boils down to I think -- not the difficulty per se but just the sheer slog. A hard jumping puzzle is a good thing -- a hard jumping puzzle where you have limited tries before you have to waste a minute to try again is NOT (especially in ones where you can easily get hit and fall into spikes, losing two hearts in one go). A difficult boss is fine....a difficult boss that's harder because you died? That's ass backwards.

An exploration-focused game intends for you to explore. Though I do agree with you on that boss, the Crystal Husk refight having the Shade spawn in the back of the room is kinda dumb. Fortunately, there is an easy workaround to just get some soul and Vengeful Spirit it from across the room. I suspect it is an oversight from the devs, and hope they patch that out sometime.

As to the White Palace... equip Hiveblood. Equip Grubbersong. Equip Deep Focus. There's a bench right there, the game gives you all the tools to have a very easy time of it.

[cyb-009]

The difficulty (generally) feels ok to me (not judging, some bosses are bastards) but the "fight your way to the boss again and again"thing is getting pretty stale right now and I have pratically all charms,masks and orbs havin gone searching for them as I was searching for dream essence for the nail to complete the last charm.
Some non-saving respawn point near outside the boss room would be great.
I like it how games often use save spots to signal that something bad is coming up.
It heightens the tension in my opinion.

[Altrias]

The game already have difficulty option. It is called "Steel Soul Mode" where your death is permanent, and you have to start the game from the beginnig. So, actually you were playing on the easy mode all that time.

[TheBrightKing]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by 4thQueen:

By the same coin, should you not respect the developer's intent? If they want players to do things a certain way, ie: not make their game a cakewalk, is that so bad? Should all games be made available for all people? I think it's fine if a game doesn't appeal to everyone. I don't expect Kirby games to be difficult, and I don't expect Dark Souls games to be easy. Yet I can enjoy both.

Perhaps you should try to experience the game the developers want you to experience. And if you decide you don't like that experience, that is fine as well.

Well, the main issue at least that I have (and have pointed out multiple times in this and other threads) is that as Jim Sterling so succinctly put it in regards to another game -- this game shows of disrespect toward the player’s time. You say to respect the devs' intent but in my opinion they don't really respect us (or at least, a good subset of us).
Sure they claim the Dark Souls influence right off the bat, but that doesn't excuse many many extra hours of play time that's really just padding. I did after 23 hours -- /23 hours in an exploration platformer game/ with no where being close to done -- give up, ironically at probably the closest boss to a bench, because the ghost spawns right in the room and you can't kill it before the boss starts attacking. Which means you actually take hits from the boss's attacks because of the ghost -- I can't fathom how anyone could consider this 'good gameplay'. It's pure BS and it's not the only spot it happens.
And tha'ts what it boils down to I think -- not the difficulty per se but just the sheer slog. A hard jumping puzzle is a good thing -- a hard jumping puzzle where you have limited tries before you have to waste a minute to try again is NOT (especially in ones where you can easily get hit and fall into spikes, losing two hearts in one go). A difficult boss is fine....a difficult boss that's harder because you died? That's ass backwards.

The shade thing is made to punish you when dying, whats the point on spawning a new enemy if it would not attack you? The shade is not dangerous when alone, but it is when there are other enemies around, and its intended that way. Ill give you a tip: dont go like crazy for the shade, hit it until the boss notices you, watch for the boss and when you see an opening finish the shade.

Also the disrespect for the players time is dumb imo since some people like me enjoyed the travels as an essential part of the game, they dont take so much time, and they add a sense of being on a true world. By that logic any game is disrespecting players time if you dont enjoy it, if i dont enjoy dark souls boss fights then their devs are disrespecting my time? The backtracking and exploration is..... optional, yes optional, you can or can not do it to complete the game, it would be harder but you can choose to not do it; its your choice, you are disrespecting your time and blaming the devs...

[Hariwulf]

You people are the cancer. Really. Pathetic disgusting arrogant idiots.
To OP: Fanboys are good to hurt the games they like more than those they hate.
Enjoy the irony. And maybe wait a bit before purchase to see some YouTube videos...it spoils a bit, but gives an idea.