"Marks" for the map.

[laiken]

This isn't something that i certainly want but a lot of people seem to want something like this so i'm making this thread so that maybe the devs could see it:

-UNLOCK:
The waypoints or pins should be unlocked by default. You should be able to go to the map shop and buy one for 100-300 geo.
-PRICE:
The first mark you buy should cost 100 geo. The second one 120, then 150, 175, 200, 250 and the last one 300 geo. However, you should only be able to buy 7 or 8 of them, and you should need to go to their locations and break them to retrieve and reuse them.
-HOW IT CAN BE REPLICATED:
You can download a completed map of the area (kinda like cheating) and mark the locations in any drawing program.
I would love to hear your opinions and your own ideas. What do you think about this idea?

[PizzaSHARK]

The player shouldn't have to buy functions that should be part of the default map.

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

The player shouldn't have to buy functions that should be part of the default map.

Except what you consider "functions that should be part of the default map" is not the same as that of others. I for one am quite satisfied with the current map system, but I grew up with games where personal note-taking was the norm. Kinda makes me feel that people who've only played newer games are spoiled lucky that more and more games have ways to take notes in-game.

I feel like I should also point out to the people complaining about how you have to buy "pins" for features to show up on maps that this is not a new feature in games - it's been used in many other games before as well (e.g. Ori and the Blind Forest is one that immediately comes to mind with hp/energy cell locations as some of the last upgrades along a branch in the ability tree). You may argue it's bad game design, but it's pretty normal and is not a make-or-break game design choice.

An alternative to adding adjustable marks as in-game "notes" is to have the revealing of the map be split up into more parts of rooms, so that if you don't visit the left side of a room (and it has a collectible) it doesn't reveal that part of the room in the map and only shows the right half that you did enter. Making this change would help direct back-tracking since it makes clear if you've fully cleared out rooms instead of the current system, where barely entering a room and turning back reveals the whole room. Care would have to be taken to not leave unexplored empty parts of rooms as empty patches on the map of course, since that could also lead to useless back-tracking. I think the way Ori and the Blind Forest splits up its map into parts of rooms is the reason why I've not heard any complaints about the map system in that game.

[PizzaSHARK]

And people who think Hollow Knight's map is fine are people who probably didn't play the classic Metroidvanias and so don't know how a metroidvania map is supposed to function.

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

And people who think Hollow Knight's map is fine are people who probably didn't play the classic Metroidvanias and so don't know how a metroidvania map is supposed to function.

I've had friends who've played classic Metroid and classic Castlevania games. They've played Hollow Knight and have absolutely no problem with the map system in the game (except for the slight weirdness of having to buy the map of each area to get a map of that area). So sorry to say, your argument doesn't really work out there either.

[Damos]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

And people who think Hollow Knight's map is fine are people who probably didn't play the classic Metroidvanias and so don't know how a metroidvania map is supposed to function.

You gotta stop thinking your subjective opinions are facts and that anyone who doesn't share them must be inexperienced or less competent than you, seriously man. No one will take you seriously if you don't change that.

I think the map mechanic of HK is one of its biggest strength and I've played all the classics metroidvanias and also most of the recent ones, so there goes your theory.

Also, there is no such thing as one single way a metroidvania map is supposed to function, this is completely absurd. Depending of the size and density of your world, depending if you're aiming for open-world sense of exploration or high paced relative linearity, each metroidvania will have different needs for its map to compliment his philosophy.

Nothing is written in stones, this is art, not an instruction manual for an Ikea table!

[JapanGamer29]

I think the Normal game should be left as it is. Personally, I'd like to see an Easy mode, possibly with an unlocked, marked map, no geo-loss on death and toned down boss fights. The player could wear a chicken-hat, just like in MGSV.

[PizzaSHARK]

Originally posted by Damos:

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

And people who think Hollow Knight's map is fine are people who probably didn't play the classic Metroidvanias and so don't know how a metroidvania map is supposed to function.

You gotta stop thinking your subjective opinions are facts and that anyone who doesn't share them must be inexperienced or less competent than you, seriously man. No one will take you seriously if you don't change that.

I think the map mechanic of HK is one of its biggest strength and I've played all the classics metroidvanias and also most of the recent ones, so there goes your theory.

Also, there is no such thing as one single way a metroidvania map is supposed to function, this is completely absurd. Depending of the size and density of your world, depending if you're aiming for open-world sense of exploration or high paced relative linearity, each metroidvania will have different needs for its map to compliment his philosophy.

Nothing is written in stones, this is art, not an instruction manual for an Ikea table!

Except there are reasons for the maps in those other games being the way they are. The design decision to make the map the way it is in HK is pure amateur hour design, full stop. There is no other, rational explanation for it.

You would still have that same sense of wonder and exploration with a functional map and compass. Dracula's castle and Zebes are no less interesting to explore and no less immersive because they have functional, useful maps. Your argument is garbage.

[wataniyob]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

<snip>
Your argument is garbage.

And have you thought that some people might actually find the map system in this game more fun than the map in those older games? Or are those opinions "garbage" as well?

[Smug Hatterene]

By the point that you first find Cornifer, you should have a few hundred Geo. Buying the map componants isn't too much of a hassle.

[Damos]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

The design decision to make the map the way it is in HK is pure amateur hour design, full stop. There is no other, rational explanation for it.Your argument is garbage.

How ironic coming from you... I think you have a LOT to learn about "rational explanation" and "argument". And game design obviously, but that's not the priority atm.

Toasty and wataniyob, you both wrote some interesting stuff I want to reply to. I'll do that later when the air gets more breathable.

[laiken]

Originally posted by PizzaSHARK! 🙃:

And people who think Hollow Knight's map is fine are people who probably didn't play the classic Metroidvanias and so don't know how a metroidvania map is supposed to function.

We understand that this is just an opinion but you shouldn't make it sound like a fact. For me, it shouldn't be a part of the default map but i stated it as just an idea. If you get mad at people saying that you shouldn't state opinions as facts, you need to change that behavior pretty soon. I made this so you could post your opinions, not for you to turn this title into another fight. Please leave the title if you're going to start a fight. We've seen enough already.

I could've just said "your opinion is garbage" but i know that will be the word that will start a fight.

[Kriss]

It's part of the game...

Like in every game which involve money, it's an issue at the beginning... And in this game we're talking about the may be two first hours...
I didn't have that much money issues in the game.

The mapping system is fun and trying to find this fracking cockroach can be ennoying at time, but so sastisfying when you find this little mofo... I find the mapping system refreshing even if it's not cosy...

The only thing I can complain about is the fact that you can't buy any custom pin to point thing you don't want to forget their...