Bitterblack Theory[Spoilers]

[Level 9 Hamslayer]

First, let's get some things in mind, the community on a whole, or at least the loudest part, didn't like the vanila story. Second, a lot of people wanted to romance their pawns. But couldn't

So you get to Daimon and during the fight, or some time around there, I've really got into the endless cycle, it is revealed that Ashe (Daimon uncursed/Arisen form) Romanced his pawn [Keeps second point in mind] So when he gets to his choice against the red dragon, He says he doesn't want to choose and that can go to Hell. [First point]

So what if Daimon represents the community? At least the second form.
"Slave to a broken order Dare you to look apon the truth?" This is when other people share their opinion, at how bad the story was and the things they didn't like [Second point].
Second Daimon Form gets multiple abilities and such that would represent the endgame of the player And how hard he is to kill? How people min max/ build their characters to be demigods.

Once you kill First Daimon, he thanks you and "moves" on or whatever cursed Arisen do. So when you eventually beat daimon 2 instead of Ashes a "default" Arisen "moves" on, while unconscious. This represents as people kill Daimon, time passes, and the player, accepts the game for what it is, flaws and all, and realizes that even after the story, its a great game, which they depart (thankingly to the Arisen) and are happy or they just move on to another game and are no longer "cursed" because they don't care.

When I had originally came up with this theory, I had a LOT of details, like dialog and more analysis to things, as I remember them, I will update this theory.

[Snowskeeper]

I really doubt that was the intent. Most people I've talked to loved the story; it was the game itself, largely unfinished as it is, that people were irritated with. And, er, I've not really met many people who wanted to romance their pawns. I've been subscribed to these forums almost since the game was launched on Steam.

Not saying you're wrong to interpret that way, since interpretation is what stories are for, but I don't think that was what the writers had in mind.

[Level 9 Hamslayer]

I haven't heard of anyone speak kindly of the story. And I found a small community of people who wanted to. I also came from the consoles which would explain why you haven't heard of these two points.In the very least for the pawn thing is that everyone in the world is rather boring and that would make a nice custom battle significant other.

Not saying they had these in mind, but when I thought of this so many things came into align with it seemed like it acould be a plausable fan theory.

[76561198358990051]

game fails to explain it in a concrete way. you can only get your own interpretation

whole thing is worse than spanish soap opera from the beginning to the end. ashe (male voice in dungeon) was neither arizen, nor pawn, he was in love with arizen (female voice in dungeon) whose pawn was oira and ashe joined them in their quest. that arizen dies even before reaching the dragon. as all others, her pawn takes form of his master which is why oira looks like ashes beloved (the one at the end in flame skirt). after that arizens death, ashe became arizen and instead of creating new pawn, he simply took oira. but, once presented with same choice as you by the dragon "fight or offer your belowed", he chose neither... after which game doesn't explain ♥♥♥♥ how ashe became daimon or what daimon is.

one most acceprable to me i read on internet is that when ashe didn't choose anything he became dragon of his own free will unlike other dragons which are created by seneshal using arizens that fail in their quest to reach him. which is why his form is different and you can still see dragon face on his stomach.

the fact that they mixed commentaries from ashe and oiras master makes whole thing even more confusing and illogical. they mix timelines and then there is a question

if he says "damn the seneshal...." why in the world would he create dungeon luring others that have same fate as he had and this is the fate he was not even remotely happy with? why not take it with the seneshal?

unless,... preventing others to reach seneshal in order for seneshal to die from boredom was his brilliant master plan all along

supposedly, after you kill first form, ashe is released and what you're left of is rage... or something like that

[Go0lden_Archer]

Originally posted by wh1sper_123a:

game fails to explain it in a concrete way. you can only get your own interpretation

whole thing is worse than spanish soap opera from the beginning to the end. ashe (male voice in dungeon) was neither arizen, nor pawn, he was in love with arizen (female voice in dungeon) whose pawn was oira and ashe joined them in their quest. that arizen dies even before reaching the dragon. as all others, her pawn takes form of his master which is why oira looks like ashes beloved (the one at the end in flame skirt). after that arizens death, ashe became arizen and instead of creating new pawn, he simply took oira. but, once presented with same choice as you by the dragon "fight or offer your belowed", he chose neither... after which game doesn't explain ♥♥♥♥ how ashe became daimon or what daimon is.

one most acceprable to me i read on internet is that when ashe didn't choose anything he became dragon of his own free will unlike other dragons which are created by seneshal using arizens that fail in their quest to reach him. which is why his form is different and you can still see dragon face on his stomach.

the fact that they mixed commentaries from ashe and oiras master makes whole thing even more confusing and illogical. they mix timelines and then there is a question

if he says "damn the seneshal...." why in the world would he create dungeon luring others that have same fate as he had and this is the fate he was not even remotely happy with? why not take it with the seneshal?

unless,... preventing others to reach seneshal in order for seneshal to die from boredom was his brilliant master plan all along

supposedly, after you kill first form, ashe is released and what you're left of is rage... or something like that

From how I saw it, Olra's original master reached the dragon, killed it, and went beyond the rift to face Seneshal. But failed. When you listen to the memories (The ones on the tablet when you gathered them all) you can hear Grette voice, and then compare that voice to Dragon that offers Ashe a choise. A choise too cruel to make:
Kill me, your mentor, mother, beloved, or sacrifice your beloved.
Hence the responce Ashe gives is basically: I'll tear the whole of it asunder.

He wants to stop the cycle, but in his rage, he becomes Daimon, cursed, on the cursed Island that is atleast partially his own creation.

As for second, awakened form, what we see after defeating it, is body of unnamed person, and voices in the background, then body dissapears. Aye, I'd assume that is one of the Arisen that came there, like we did, but failed to take Daimon down, or even failed to reach him. But becase will of the Arisen is far greater then ordinary man, their spirits stayed while bodies rotted away. Some of them became what we fight, even Death, and some, filled with rage and hate (We can hear some of those voices as we walk through BBI cursing everything)
take Ashes place.

[wh1sper_123]

Originally posted by Go0lden_Archer:

Originally posted by wh1sper_123a:

game fails to explain it in a concrete way. you can only get your own interpretation

whole thing is worse than spanish soap opera from the beginning to the end. ashe (male voice in dungeon) was neither arizen, nor pawn, he was in love with arizen (female voice in dungeon) whose pawn was oira and ashe joined them in their quest. that arizen dies even before reaching the dragon. as all others, her pawn takes form of his master which is why oira looks like ashes beloved (the one at the end in flame skirt). after that arizens death, ashe became arizen and instead of creating new pawn, he simply took oira. but, once presented with same choice as you by the dragon "fight or offer your belowed", he chose neither... after which game doesn't explain ♥♥♥♥ how ashe became daimon or what daimon is.

one most acceprable to me i read on internet is that when ashe didn't choose anything he became dragon of his own free will unlike other dragons which are created by seneshal using arizens that fail in their quest to reach him. which is why his form is different and you can still see dragon face on his stomach.

the fact that they mixed commentaries from ashe and oiras master makes whole thing even more confusing and illogical. they mix timelines and then there is a question

if he says "damn the seneshal...." why in the world would he create dungeon luring others that have same fate as he had and this is the fate he was not even remotely happy with? why not take it with the seneshal?

unless,... preventing others to reach seneshal in order for seneshal to die from boredom was his brilliant master plan all along

supposedly, after you kill first form, ashe is released and what you're left of is rage... or something like that

From how I saw it, Olra's original master reached the dragon, killed it, and went beyond the rift to face Seneshal. But failed. When you listen to the memories (The ones on the tablet when you gathered them all) you can hear Grette voice, and then compare that voice to Dragon that offers Ashe a choise. A choise too cruel to make:
Kill me, your mentor, mother, beloved, or sacrifice your beloved.
Hence the responce Ashe gives is basically: I'll tear the whole of it asunder.

He wants to stop the cycle, but in his rage, he becomes Daimon, cursed, on the cursed Island that is atleast partially his own creation.

As for second, awakened form, what we see after defeating it, is body of unnamed person, and voices in the background, then body dissapears. Aye, I'd assume that is one of the Arisen that came there, like we did, but failed to take Daimon down, or even failed to reach him. But becase will of the Arisen is far greater then ordinary man, their spirits stayed while bodies rotted away. Some of them became what we fight, even Death, and some, filled with rage and hate (We can hear some of those voices as we walk through BBI cursing everything)
take Ashes place.

you make three assumptions wrong if you ask me. not saying you are really wrong. it might as well be me

- nowhere in game it says arizen needs to meet seneshal and fail to be made dragon. it just has to fail

- you take far too much from one sentence. when you read/listen to all, it is really confusing to the point like writter himself had no clue. way of someone else like you or me

- olra once fully remembering says this

"I…I died once. Here, in this place. It was scarce a fortnight after I was first lured in. Each day brought new losses. My pawn was slain, then gradually my store of curatives dwindled. I was surrounded, body battered and broken by dark and powerful magicks. As death approached, I lifted my gaze to see the stars one final time. Yet it was not death that engulfed me then, but a strange light, far brighter than any fire of the empyrean. …past that, my memory fails"

since this are her original masters memories, it means that she died on BBI and it kind of implies transformation into the dragon.

there is another popular variation. one is that fallen city is civilization destroyed by dragon which olras master failed to defeat. in this one as well, there would be no point in seneshal doing that if she met him

also, most people consider last body on the bridge to be hers although gear is wrong, ghost carries sword'n'board, body carries staff.

it is simply best to take your own interpretation you're most happy with and enjoy the fights ;)

[Go0lden_Archer]

Um. That's not the assumption, I take it from Grette's Account, #13 page on the Monument of Remembrance.

And now… I haven’t even the freedom of my own will. I followed the Arisen’s path, past the wyrm and to the halls of the world-steward… And there, my path ended. In defeat, I was remade a dragon.

To be even more specific she says this: "Past the wyrm, and to the halls of the world-steward", which we know to be Seneshal.

Thats for one. And also, if you fail before killing the dragon, you have to retry, simple as that. If you lose after jumping into the portal beyond the rift, you turn into dragon, and THEN you have to press retry.

And it was not confusing, that whole discussion wasnt, nor any of them when you actually listen to all that Olra the Pawn, Grette, and Ashe have to say.

During your encounter againt Daimon, which is cursed Ashe at the time, Olra starts talking to you. She says about the choise he had to make was to cruel.
Before that, in the 'arena-like' chamber, after sewers, before Fallen City, you encounter that mess of a dialogue, which isn't so much a mess when you actually read it, instead of listening.
Taken from #15 Monument of Remembrance:

Now, choose. Stand against me, or speak your wish.

Offer your beloved in forfeit, and I shall see your will done.

Choose? How am I to choose?

No matter my answer, the price is death. A hollow choice… Who am I to stand as arbiter of two lives? …Of two loves. What would you have me do? You brought me here. You… If this be the will of the gods… the order of the world… Then damn the lot of them! I’ll tear the whole of it asunder!

Very well… If that be your wish, I shall claim my price.

Stop! NOOOOOO!

If to be more specific it's at the begining of Ashe's responce:
"Who am I to stand as arbiter of two lives? ... Of two loves".

Plus Grette wanted him to finish her off, thus she made him Arisen. Bad idea on her part that :D

As for Olra remembering. She fully remembers herself, not the pawn, as the pawn went away with Ashe. That is obviously assumption of her words but she remembers dying, and seeying bright light. And then there she goes, instead of being dead, summoning us, for one, and slowly regaining her own consciousness.

The only real assumption I made in my last comment was about Awakened form. There's nothing concrete about it, about who and what it is, and why it's there. Barroch makes the assumption, and before that he also states that some of the things we fight are probably Arisen of the past, that came to BBI and failed along the way. I kind of agree with that statement, and follow it up all the way to the Daimon's awakened form :)

[Level 9 Hamslayer]

Originally posted by wh1sper_123a:

game fails to explain it in a concrete way. you can only get your own interpretation

whole thing is worse than spanish soap opera from the beginning to the end. ashe (male voice in dungeon) was neither arizen, nor pawn, he was in love with arizen (female voice in dungeon) whose pawn was oira and ashe joined them in their quest. that arizen dies even before reaching the dragon. as all others, her pawn takes form of his master which is why oira looks like ashes beloved (the one at the end in flame skirt). after that arizens death, ashe became arizen and instead of creating new pawn, he simply took oira. but, once presented with same choice as you by the dragon "fight or offer your belowed", he chose neither... after which game doesn't explain ♥♥♥♥ how ashe became daimon or what daimon is.

one most acceprable to me i read on internet is that when ashe didn't choose anything he became dragon of his own free will unlike other dragons which are created by seneshal using arizens that fail in their quest to reach him. which is why his form is different and you can still see dragon face on his stomach.

the fact that they mixed commentaries from ashe and oiras master makes whole thing even more confusing and illogical. they mix timelines and then there is a question

if he says "damn the seneshal...." why in the world would he create dungeon luring others that have same fate as he had and this is the fate he was not even remotely happy with? why not take it with the seneshal?

unless,... preventing others to reach seneshal in order for seneshal to die from boredom was his brilliant master plan all along

supposedly, after you kill first form, ashe is released and what you're left of is rage... or something like that

While you're fighting the living armor DPS check, it explains how he got there. Ashe damned both choices so the dragon took it and cursed him.

[wh1sper_123]

Originally posted by Go0lden_Archer:

Um. That's not the assumption, I take it from Grette's Account, #13 page on the Monument of Remembrance.

And now… I haven’t even the freedom of my own will. I followed the Arisen’s path, past the wyrm and to the halls of the world-steward… And there, my path ended. In defeat, I was remade a dragon.

To be even more specific she says this: "Past the wyrm, and to the halls of the world-steward", which we know to be Seneshal.

Thats for one. And also, if you fail before killing the dragon, you have to retry, simple as that. If you lose after jumping into the portal beyond the rift, you turn into dragon, and THEN you have to press retry.

And it was not confusing, that whole discussion wasnt, nor any of them when you actually listen to all that Olra the Pawn, Grette, and Ashe have to say.

During your encounter againt Daimon, which is cursed Ashe at the time, Olra starts talking to you. She says about the choise he had to make was to cruel.
Before that, in the 'arena-like' chamber, after sewers, before Fallen City, you encounter that mess of a dialogue, which isn't so much a mess when you actually read it, instead of listening.
Taken from #15 Monument of Remembrance:

Now, choose. Stand against me, or speak your wish.

Offer your beloved in forfeit, and I shall see your will done.

Choose? How am I to choose?

No matter my answer, the price is death. A hollow choice… Who am I to stand as arbiter of two lives? …Of two loves. What would you have me do? You brought me here. You… If this be the will of the gods… the order of the world… Then damn the lot of them! I’ll tear the whole of it asunder!

Very well… If that be your wish, I shall claim my price.

Stop! NOOOOOO!

If to be more specific it's at the begining of Ashe's responce:
"Who am I to stand as arbiter of two lives? ... Of two loves".

Plus Grette wanted him to finish her off, thus she made him Arisen. Bad idea on her part that :D

As for Olra remembering. She fully remembers herself, not the pawn, as the pawn went away with Ashe. That is obviously assumption of her words but she remembers dying, and seeying bright light. And then there she goes, instead of being dead, summoning us, for one, and slowly regaining her own consciousness.

The only real assumption I made in my last comment was about Awakened form. There's nothing concrete about it, about who and what it is, and why it's there. Barroch makes the assumption, and before that he also states that some of the things we fight are probably Arisen of the past, that came to BBI and failed along the way. I kind of agree with that statement, and follow it up all the way to the Daimon's awakened form :)

most of them true, some not. especially i forgot the one about wyrm. i pondered this long, long ago since i play this game from day 1 on ps3 release.

only problem is that you will find giant bullet holes in that plot no matter how you turn it.

also, it says "past the wyrm on my way to world-steward". this still says she has yet to reach him.

another plausible one is that fallen city was destroyed by ashe "i'll tear the world assunder"

olra cannot be herself, as there is no herself according to the game.

first memories that come back are that she was arisen herself. next batch tells you she was actually a pawn (and like all plot pawns including yours, taking masters appearance and memories after his death).

so, if she was a pawn... at the very start of the game you're told they are empty beings which means that she remembers masters fate about death.

in my older personal interpretation it was something like this. thanks to you pointing out the "past the wyrm" i remembered it as it was
- ??? (master) -> pawn olra + ashe licking ??? legs as nice doggy
- ??? dies -> olra takes her form and memories, ??? becomes dragon
- ashe seeks the wyrm in revenge and becomes arizen, takes olra as his pawn
- ashe being put to get the choice and not being careful what he wished he got his wish granted (dragon offers rule for love, no one says it couldn't grant something else) by mehod "be careful what you wish for" and olra gets taken by the dragon.

there is just three giant holes here.
- if dragon took olra... how the fsck is she now alive?
- since ashe (he says he joined them even though he was not arisen or pawn) was there if they went past the dragon, why the hell is he seeking revenge against it? did he take long bathroom break just before dragon and past everything else?
- if ??? was dragon who made ashe arisen, how the hell didn't he notice it was ????

these three made me go with simpler explanation and now i enjoy fights without pondering what it can't be solved

as i said it. there is just no right interpretation. game is just too vague. no matter how you turn it, you'll get to some conclusion of yours which is most probably correct interpretation, but this is not only one and neither it is 100% correct

this game has some of the worst plot offenders that were ever made in games. like, you being thrown to dungeon after breaking in to aelinore and stopping duke. you break out, next thing you go back to castle and you're like "yo brotha ;) " with duke again. all these plot holes really tell that game was not thought well from story aspect

this is no different than records of arisen and death. you'll think you know exactly how it is, but you in fact can't since facts are too scarce.

more or less this is like solving this equation:
15=x*y
what are exact values of x and y?

[wh1sper_123]

Originally posted by Level 2 Ham Fighter:

Originally posted by wh1sper_123a:

game fails to explain it in a concrete way. you can only get your own interpretation

whole thing is worse than spanish soap opera from the beginning to the end. ashe (male voice in dungeon) was neither arizen, nor pawn, he was in love with arizen (female voice in dungeon) whose pawn was oira and ashe joined them in their quest. that arizen dies even before reaching the dragon. as all others, her pawn takes form of his master which is why oira looks like ashes beloved (the one at the end in flame skirt). after that arizens death, ashe became arizen and instead of creating new pawn, he simply took oira. but, once presented with same choice as you by the dragon "fight or offer your belowed", he chose neither... after which game doesn't explain ♥♥♥♥ how ashe became daimon or what daimon is.

one most acceprable to me i read on internet is that when ashe didn't choose anything he became dragon of his own free will unlike other dragons which are created by seneshal using arizens that fail in their quest to reach him. which is why his form is different and you can still see dragon face on his stomach.

the fact that they mixed commentaries from ashe and oiras master makes whole thing even more confusing and illogical. they mix timelines and then there is a question

if he says "damn the seneshal...." why in the world would he create dungeon luring others that have same fate as he had and this is the fate he was not even remotely happy with? why not take it with the seneshal?

unless,... preventing others to reach seneshal in order for seneshal to die from boredom was his brilliant master plan all along

supposedly, after you kill first form, ashe is released and what you're left of is rage... or something like that

While you're fighting the living armor DPS check, it explains how he got there. Ashe damned both choices so the dragon took it and cursed him.

or more like "think before you speak" and dragon took his words "i'll tear this world assunder" as his spoken wish instead of ruling offered by dragon for the price of his beloved and gave him form in which he could do right that

[Go0lden_Archer]

Originally posted by wh1sper_123:

Originally posted by Go0lden_Archer:

Um. That's not the assumption, I take it from Grette's Account, #13 page on the Monument of Remembrance.


To be even more specific she says this: "Past the wyrm, and to the halls of the world-steward", which we know to be Seneshal.

Thats for one. And also, if you fail before killing the dragon, you have to retry, simple as that. If you lose after jumping into the portal beyond the rift, you turn into dragon, and THEN you have to press retry.

And it was not confusing, that whole discussion wasnt, nor any of them when you actually listen to all that Olra the Pawn, Grette, and Ashe have to say.

During your encounter againt Daimon, which is cursed Ashe at the time, Olra starts talking to you. She says about the choise he had to make was to cruel.
Before that, in the 'arena-like' chamber, after sewers, before Fallen City, you encounter that mess of a dialogue, which isn't so much a mess when you actually read it, instead of listening.
Taken from #15 Monument of Remembrance:

If to be more specific it's at the begining of Ashe's responce:
"Who am I to stand as arbiter of two lives? ... Of two loves".

Plus Grette wanted him to finish her off, thus she made him Arisen. Bad idea on her part that :D

As for Olra remembering. She fully remembers herself, not the pawn, as the pawn went away with Ashe. That is obviously assumption of her words but she remembers dying, and seeying bright light. And then there she goes, instead of being dead, summoning us, for one, and slowly regaining her own consciousness.

The only real assumption I made in my last comment was about Awakened form. There's nothing concrete about it, about who and what it is, and why it's there. Barroch makes the assumption, and before that he also states that some of the things we fight are probably Arisen of the past, that came to BBI and failed along the way. I kind of agree with that statement, and follow it up all the way to the Daimon's awakened form :)

most of them true, some not. especially i forgot the one about wyrm. i pondered this long, long ago since i play this game from day 1 on ps3 release.

only problem is that you will find giant bullet holes in that plot no matter how you turn it.

also, it says "past the wyrm on my way to world-steward". this still says she has yet to reach him.

another plausible one is that fallen city was destroyed by ashe "i'll tear the world assunder"

olra cannot be herself, as there is no herself according to the game.

first memories that come back are that she was arisen herself. next batch tells you she was actually a pawn (and like all plot pawns including yours, taking masters appearance and memories after his death).

so, if she was a pawn... at the very start of the game you're told they are empty beings which means that she remembers masters fate about death.

in my older personal interpretation it was something like this. thanks to you pointing out the "past the wyrm" i remembered it as it was
- ??? (master) -> pawn olra + ashe licking ??? legs as nice doggy
- ??? dies -> olra takes her form and memories, ??? becomes dragon
- ashe seeks the wyrm in revenge and becomes arizen, takes olra as his pawn
- ashe being put to get the choice and not being careful what he wished he got his wish granted (dragon offers rule for love, no one says it couldn't grant something else) by mehod "be careful what you wish for" and olra gets taken by the dragon.

there is just three giant holes here.
- if dragon took olra... how the fsck is she now alive?
- since ashe (he says he joined them even though he was not arisen or pawn) was there if they went past the dragon, why the hell is he seeking revenge against it? did he take long bathroom break just before dragon and past everything else?
- if ??? was dragon who made ashe arisen, how the hell didn't he notice it was ????

these three made me go with simpler explanation and now i enjoy fights without pondering what it can't be solved

as i said it. there is just no right interpretation. game is just too vague. no matter how you turn it, you'll get to some conclusion of yours which is most probably correct interpretation, but this is not only one and neither it is 100% correct

this game has some of the worst plot offenders that were ever made in games. like, you being thrown to dungeon after breaking in to aelinore and stopping duke. you break out, next thing you go back to castle and you're like "yo brotha ;) " with duke again. all these plot holes really tell that game was not thought well from story aspect

this is no different than records of arisen and death. you'll think you know exactly how it is, but you in fact can't since facts are too scarce.

more or less this is like solving this equation:
15=x*y
what are exact values of x and y?

After the original Dark Arisen storyline ends, which is after Ashe is free and reunites with Olra, what we can see on the beach, their spirits move forward. And human Olra wakes up. After that she herself states that it was because she herself was named Olra that she got into this mess in the first place, and she herself was an Arisen, as all those who end up on BBI are infact Arisen.
It goes like roughly this:
Olra ends up on BBI. Eventually failing like so many before her. And when she's about to die, instead she ends up being practically possesed by Olra from the past, which was far more then just a pawn, because she got that piece of a soul from her original master, Grette.
So Olra, being possesed, calls to Arisen, in hopes that one will be able to defeat Daimon, and finally help Ashe to get rid of the curse he once brought upon himself.

As for Ashe, he was left behind when Grette and her pawn Olra went to face the Dragon. That too is explained in the Monument of Remembrance, I don't have accept to my pc atm, and I don't recall which part it was exactly, but it's either Ashe Account or Grette Account (There's also Olra Account, but I dont think it's there).
There's just no plothole here at all, original events that lead us to this moment are explained throughout our travel towards the Daimon in BBI, it's just not as "In your face" like most of the storylines, and resembles more of Dark Souls series then Dragon Age for example :D

Grette while being the Dragon could've just take the heart from Ashe and fly away. Like you know, there's just giant lizard with wings landing infront of you, that fits the description of "The Dragon". It proceedes to hit you in the face, then plundge it's claw into your chest, ripping the heart out and eating it. And flyes away. Saying nothing at all.
Hence Ashe didn't know that the dragon infact was Grette, she simply didn't even talk to him during the process.
Here you go, all 3 explained.
And we arent talking about main story, only about BBI story. This is after all a DLC, that was made after the main game release. And but a tad bit of a different people.

[wh1sper_123]

Originally posted by Go0lden_Archer:

After the original Dark Arisen storyline ends, which is after Ashe is free and reunites with Olra, what we can see on the beach, their spirits move forward. And human Olra wakes up. After that she herself states that it was because she herself was named Olra that she got into this mess in the first place, and she herself was an Arisen, as all those who end up on BBI are infact Arisen.
It goes like roughly this:
Olra ends up on BBI. Eventually failing like so many before her. And when she's about to die, instead she ends up being practically possesed by Olra from the past, which was far more then just a pawn, because she got that piece of a soul from her original master, Grette.
So Olra, being possesed, calls to Arisen, in hopes that one will be able to defeat Daimon, and finally help Ashe to get rid of the curse he once brought upon himself.

As for Ashe, he was left behind when Grette and her pawn Olra went to face the Dragon. That too is explained in the Monument of Remembrance, I don't have accept to my pc atm, and I don't recall which part it was exactly, but it's either Ashe Account or Grette Account (There's also Olra Account, but I dont think it's there).
There's just no plothole here at all, original events that lead us to this moment are explained throughout our travel towards the Daimon in BBI, it's just not as "In your face" like most of the storylines, and resembles more of Dark Souls series then Dragon Age for example :D

t. Like you know, there's just giant lizard with wings landing infront of you, that fits the description of "The Dragon". It proceedes to hit you in the face, then plundge it's claw into your chest, ripping the heart out and eating it. And flyes away. Saying nothing at all.
Hence Ashe didn't know that the dragon infact was Grette, she simply didn't even talk to him during the process.
Here you go, all 3 explained.
And we arent talking about main story, only about BBI story. This is after all a DLC, that was made after the main game release. And but a tad bit of a different people.

as i said few times. whole lot of guessing and filling the blanks. but, i keep saying you're not wrong at all. hell, maybe i am. it is just so open to guessing that practically every variation works

as long as you think this is what happened that is ok. anyone else will always find tons of loopholes in your version, just as you will find in theirs. but, never let someone spoil it for you. if game story works for you you can focus on playing which is whole point

just few examples

in fallen city, ashe says "you have been chosen, so saying the wyrm preised the heart from my chest" ;)

olra and grette look exactly the same, now go to hillfigure knoll after dragon and talk to the fool. you'll see he completely reverted to dragonforged like he never was a pawn. even his talk changes completely. here you could point out selene, and then again me retorting that she is different as her arisen bestowed her soul (whatever the fsck that means ;), her master didn't fail the quest. at least the strange thing is that that arizen is completely different from others. other arisens didn't age while selenes master did.

i could go on and on

i think it is best to tell your version and not persuade. game is to be played and less you ponder about story, more you play