Question about the ending. Spoilers!

[Sammicat]

SPOILERS!

Also I haven't beat Bitterblack Isle yet so if there's more story please don't spoil anything for me.



Okay so if the Arisen wanted to stop the endless cycle, didn't the pawn just defeat the purpose of his suicide by taking over his body? Now it's the same outcome over and over since the pawn resembles his arisen? Why is Gregori the same dragon used in the prologue if Savan eventually kills it?

[ThatHomestar]

"The delightful and ever-novel pleasure of a useless occupation."

There is no end to the cycle.

[TheZeroOne]

Savan didn't fight Grigori I believe. He fought a similar Great Dragon, which was another Arisen that fell at the hand of the current Seneschal at the time. Any Arisen that falls at the hand of the Seneschal becomes a Great Dragon under their command to go choose another Arisen. Grigori was probably an Arisen that couldn't defeat Savan so he/she became the Great Dragon.

And the Pawn taking over the body doesn't defeat the purpose because the cycle is broken with your Arisen's death. There's no more Seneschal on the throne and your pawn is free to live as a full fledged human now and move forward in that timeline/universe.

[Folv]

My problem with the theory of your Arisen breaking the cycle is that the Seneschal removes a godsbane from his own chest - almost leading me to believe he attempted the same sort of suicidal act that you end up comitting. It seemed as if he needed the Arisen to free him. If this is the case, it is a major plot hole that was overlooked to allow you to commit suicide; or more likely, you didn't break the loop at all and there is more to the cycle than meets the eye.

[AlwaysOnPoint]

Well i think the only Arisen that actually broke the circle is Daimon. Something tells me that the UR-Dragon is somewhat related to him.

[minusthedrifter]

Originally posted by TheZeroOne:

And the Pawn taking over the body doesn't defeat the purpose because the cycle is broken with your Arisen's death.

Incorrect.

Godsbaning yourself simply starts the cycle anew. You don't end it when you Godsbane yourself, why do you think Savan pulled the bane from his chest? He too, stabbed himself. The Seneschal can only be released by an Arisen come to take their place.

[TheZeroOne]

Originally posted by minusthedrifter:

Originally posted by TheZeroOne:

And the Pawn taking over the body doesn't defeat the purpose because the cycle is broken with your Arisen's death.

Incorrect.

Godsbaning yourself simply starts the cycle anew. You don't end it when you Godsbane yourself, why do you think Savan pulled the bane from his chest? He too, stabbed himself. The Seneschal can only be released by an Arisen come to take their place.

This is one of the reasons why I love Dragon's Dogma, there's so many theories that makes me think. But yeah I considered that too but there is two Godsbane, one is the Sword that is stored inside Seneschals (like the one Savan pulls from his chest. Maybe it's more symbolic as a result). The second is the dagger that you get from defeating Grigori. The one you kill yourself with is the dagger and not the sword.

In the end, the ending is kind of vague on whether the cycle for that particular Universe continues or not. My conclusion based on my own reasonings is that in all the Dragon's Dogma multiverses, this one Timeline was freed. Maybe.

[AstinDextor]

Originally posted by Hoffnung:

Well i think the only Arisen that actually broke the circle is Daimon. Something tells me that the UR-Dragon is somewhat related to him.

Unlikely given the meaning of Ur which is basically like First or Primordial. The Ur Dragon's name would indicate it is the first Dragon, though it may just have been named at random by someone who liked the sound of it.

[Hex]

But why does Grigori drop a Godsbane?

[Pots2Go]

Originally posted by Hoffnung:

Well i think the only Arisen that actually broke the circle is Daimon. Something tells me that the UR-Dragon is somewhat related to him.

I wonder if that's why his world went to crap, he created a godless world?

[Valmar]

Originally posted by TheZeroOne:

And the Pawn taking over the body doesn't defeat the purpose because the cycle is broken with your Arisen's death. There's no more Seneschal on the throne and your pawn is free to live as a full fledged human now and move forward in that timeline/universe.

The pawn doesn't take over your Arisen's body. Rather, it's more like the bestowal of spirit that Selene's Arisen mentioned. Except they also have your gear.

There is always a Seneschal giving will to the world. Savan probably tried to break the cycle as well by Godsbaning himself. Perhaps that is the only way the Arisen can be the Seneschal in full, by killing their self, their attachments.

There is still a lot of mystery about the DD universe... the cycle must have had a beginning... there is likely something even higher on the god scale than the Seneschal, as the Seneschal is still only a pawn of sorts. Maybe there is more than one Seneschal. It's almost like an endless spiral... where does it begin? Where does it end?

[Nicholas Steel]

Alternatively it's all just a matrix server stuck in a logic loop.

[Wanderer]

It hurts my head to think about it.
Now I'm stuck on why the seneschal and grigori both had godsbanes in them.

[Wanderer]

Originally posted by Valmar:

Originally posted by TheZeroOne:

There is still a lot of mystery about the DD universe... the cycle must have had a beginning... there is likely something even higher on the god scale than the Seneschal, as the Seneschal is still only a pawn of sorts. Maybe there is more than one Seneschal. It's almost like an endless spiral... where does it begin? Where does it end?

I've kind of stuck to the idea that ascending in the game is separating consciousness and will from earthly things like the body.

[Silvarren]

There's always a Seneschal. That's how the world exists. When the Seneschal's will / determination begins to fade (like Savan), the world begins to become corrupted. That's why, once the Dragon was slain, the world turned dark. The godsbane being inside the Dragon is an interesting point, but it would be fair to assume that it was placed there by Savan so that when the Dragon was slain, the Arisen would receive those items to fulfill their destiny.

Frankly, I'm certain that there's more than one Seneschal. There's the one in your world, and the ones in the infinite other worlds (other players). The real question is: How far does a single Seneschal's reach extend to? The entire world? A single duchy? If it encompasses the entire world, it seems strange that the Dragon keeps appearing in that same duchy multiple times within only a few generations.

And yes, the Dragon that Savan defeated was not Grigori. Grigori was an Arisen that challenged Savan the Seneschal and failed. You can easily assume this because if your Arisen falls against the Seneschal, you can see them become the dragon themselves.

You can also see that the cycle never ends because if you play offline, the next Seneschal that you challenge is your old Arisen.

And there's nothing wrong with the cycle continuing, either. That's just the way that world works. And in a way, it's cool, because it allows a soulless pawn to become a whole person (assuming it spends enough time around your Arisen).

-S

[minusthedrifter]

Originally posted by Silvarren:

The godsbane being inside the Dragon is an interesting point, but it would be fair to assume that it was placed there by Savan so that when the Dragon was slain, the Arisen would receive those items to fulfill their destiny.

My theory regarding this is that the Godsbane itself become "the first" dragon once the Seneschal banes themselves. The cycle has to have a beginning however once you've taken the position of Seneschal there is no challenging Arisen for you to defeat and cast down as a dragon.

However the first dragon has to come from somewhere and what is one of the first things the Seneschal is going to do? Try and break and cycle and free themselves with the Godsbane.