So... about the ending... Did I get it right? *SPOILERS*

[sleyper]

There's only one canon ending to the game - the one where you kill Savan, the guy you played as in the prologue, only to then kill yourself, and have your pawn take over your body. So... about the cycle...

Seneschel said that the cycle is like a ring - it has neither beginning or an end, and only choice mankind seems to have is to renew the cycle with a new dragon, challenging new Arisen to find him, seeing if they're worthy, then fighting them, and if they are - letting them jump into Everfall, collect the Wakestones, and confront the Seneschel. Pretty clear so far, right?

Who is Grigori? The dragon that ate your heart? Well seeing as he tells you that all the previous living Arisen turned out to be cowards, and accepted his offer to give up their beloved ones, as well as The Dragonforged was so old that in the end he turned to ash, we can safely assume that Grigori was unsuccessfull in his quest for finding the new Seneschel to replace Savan for at least couple of centuries. But who is he? If you let Senechel kill you, or if you kill yourself with Godsbane before you kill Savan you fall dead through the floor only to become the next dragon, and seek another Arisen, therefore repeating the cycle. So we've got two options here - Grigori is either an Arisen that found his way into the Seneschel Chamber, and failed... or HE USED to be a Senechel, before Savan showed up. Seeing as the game wiki states that Savan was the last one to slay the dragon before you, that'd cross out the option number one, which would lead us to assume that Grigori indeed was Arisen and a Seneschel before Savan took his place, and killed him. That'd mean that Grigori still wasn't quite dead (though he might've lost some of his memories. as proved by the fact that he seemed to have remembered flashes from his previous life in the moment where we kill him. That'd also explain why the dragon would even bother looking for Arisen - it'd be the only way for him to finally leave the world in peace.

All of this also sticks because in the end our character tries to break the ring, end the cycle - he kills Savan (who as astablished becomes the new dragon), and then kills themselves, only for their pawn to take their body, and continue their life from now on. So... we broke the cycle, next question is - what now? There's not Senseschel, so basically the next Arisen that will be chosen by now-dragon Savan, and the first to defeat him will automatically claim the right to be the Seneschel - noone to stop him, only thing to do is to sit in the freaking chair. Also worth noting - the next Seneschel won't be able to kill themselves since the Godsbane is with us (or rather - our pawn).

So... summing up - Savan is the new dragon, our player character actually manages to break the cycle and kills themselves, and their body is taken by their main pawn (which makes it pawn no longer - kinda reminds me of Alladin ending, where the Genie was freed of his chains, and became a free living creature, with noone above him, free to do whatever he wanted), and there is no new Senechel, so noone "oversees" the world, leaving it to be ruled by humans however they want to rule it (at least until Savan chooses a new Arisen and gets defeaten by him).

What do you think? Do you agree? Do you see holes in the theory? Feel free to express your opinion and let's put this mystery (and many other I haven't touched yet) to the rest :D

[Ruttsah]

Publicado originalmente por Sleyper:

I know there's Dragon's Dogma Online, wonder how that ties in with everything, might explain some bits here and there, but untill the game reaches America and Europe we won't really know.

I've tried looking up the lore but to no avail.

Which is sad.

[sleyper]

Publicado originalmente por Jaranu:

I've tried looking up the lore but to no avail.

Which is sad.

Well yeah, unless someone willing and fluent in Japanese stumbles upon this thread we're doomed to ignorance :P

[Sinsling]

Publicado originalmente por Jaranu:

The game is very vaque if the cycle ACTUALLY ended or not.

Think of it this way (IMO), the cycle only continues if you start a new game+. If not, the cycle didn't continue, as there is no new PC Arisen.

Well no... look at all the npc arisen who failed. Regardless of wether you choose to take part in the cycle or not, the eternal ring keeps going.

Wish capcom would bring over DDO so we could get that story, but not holding my breath.

But lets take a look at what we know:
-Between killing Gregori and defeating the current seneschel a failed ending turns us into the dragon. IIRC, walking away from the throne after defeating the seneschel will also turn you into a dragon, feel free to correct me on this.
-Merely defeating the seneschel and not inserting the godsbane into yourself puts you into a state of limbo, unable to interact with the world and unable to control anything. Which brings the question, is the power truely held within godsbane?
-Using godsbane on yourself at the end gives you control over EVERYTHING, including parellel universes, time, anything you can name. We know this because if you play online, you can encounter other players MCs ruling as seneschels.

And now some wildcards:
-We do not know how many other cycles have already been completed before any new arisen we play has their heart taken.
-We have no indication of wether or not a new seneschel waits for some unknown amount of time or starts to immediatly look for a replacement. Each ruling seneschel could be different based on their mental state and how long it takes for the job of ruling over everything to wear them down.
-We don't even know if there isn't just a constant line of people walking into the seneschel chamber after each new ascension. If there are multiple realities with multiple arisens, someone could end up on the throne not even 2 seconds before fighting the next person who is trying to get control.

[Space Joker]

I think that, by using the Godsbane, we just release our Pawn from immortality. But we stille rule the world as the Seneschal.
Right before the ending cutscene, in the loading screen, we can read the words that seem to come out of our player AFTER he used the godsbane on himself, and I'm pretty sure that would be paradoxal if he died in the process.
Also Sophia (Selene's ex-Arisen) probably refused the Seneschal challenge and returned to a paceful world, thus died for old age. During that time the "bestowal of spirit" gave the spark to Selene.

[Ruttsah]

Publicado originalmente por Sinsling:

Publicado originalmente por Jaranu:

The game is very vaque if the cycle ACTUALLY ended or not.

Think of it this way (IMO), the cycle only continues if you start a new game+. If not, the cycle didn't continue, as there is no new PC Arisen.

Well no... look at all the npc arisen who failed. Regardless of wether you choose to take part in the cycle or not, the eternal ring keeps going.

Wish capcom would bring over DDO so we could get that story, but not holding my breath.

But lets take a look at what we know:
-Between killing Gregori and defeating the current seneschel a failed ending turns us into the dragon. IIRC, walking away from the throne after defeating the seneschel will also turn you into a dragon, feel free to correct me on this.
-Merely defeating the seneschel and not inserting the godsbane into yourself puts you into a state of limbo, unable to interact with the world and unable to control anything. Which brings the question, is the power truely held within godsbane?
-Using godsbane on yourself at the end gives you control over EVERYTHING, including parellel universes, time, anything you can name. We know this because if you play online, you can encounter other players MCs ruling as seneschels.

And now some wildcards:
-We do not know how many other cycles have already been completed before any new arisen we play has their heart taken.
-We have no indication of wether or not a new seneschel waits for some unknown amount of time or starts to immediatly look for a replacement. Each ruling seneschel could be different based on their mental state and how long it takes for the job of ruling over everything to wear them down.
-We don't even know if there isn't just a constant line of people walking into the seneschel chamber after each new ascension. If there are multiple realities with multiple arisens, someone could end up on the throne not even 2 seconds before fighting the next person who is trying to get control.

I'm poretty sure the Savan mentions that there are other Seneschals, each in charge of their own universe.

[Silvarren]

Publicado originalmente por Sleyper:

But what about when you kill Savan and then yourself - the true ending? Does our Arisen survive? Simply leaves his body for his pawn, and rules as the Seneschel, because I still don't get that. And yeah, while the lore could be very fascinating to uncover, it's a shame it's not explored as much as it could be.

Hoping I can at least clear up the bit about the pawn / body thing. If they spend enough time around the Arisen that chose them, they begin to get a glimmer of a soul. In that way, (spoilers) Selena (sp) became a real girl, and there are other references to pawns gaining humanity. It's also mentioned that it's begun to happen to your pawn as well. So, it's completely within the realm of possibility that your Arisen simply took that glimmer and helped it along. The way I saw it, pawns never age, and your Arisen wanted to release your pawn to have a "normal," mortal life. It couldn't do that in a pawn body, so your Arisen gave it to the pawn.

-S

EDIT:

Publicado originalmente por Jaranu:

I'm poretty sure the Savan mentions that there are other Seneschals, each in charge of their own universe.

That's true; that's symbolic of all the other players playing the game. ;)

As for the lore, I imagine it's about as esoteric as anything else... Check out the Dragon's Dogma wiki, though. Look and scour; you'll find bits and pieces. :)

And, there's this (from wikipedia):
Dogma: "Dogma is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true." One could imagine that this is simply the way the world works, and that the cycle can't ever begin or end.

[sleyper]

So in the end it means that the cycle is as old as the world itself - it's always been there, and it will always be there, no matter what, because noone can stop it, not even our Arisen?

[Silvarren]

Basically. The world essentially lives off of the Arisen's will. It's what sustains the world and keeps it in balance. That's why the Dragon is set upon the world; the Seneschal's will begins to weaken after a few millennia. That's why the Dragon tests them; if they are strong enough to defeat the Dragon and have the strength of will to kill "god," then they are strong enough to be the Seneschal.

Personally, I find it interesting that there are significant parallels between the relationship of the Pawns to Arisen, and of the relationship between Humans and Seneschal. Given enough time and energy spent with an Arisen, a pawn can gain "humanity." Given enough time, an Arisen can gain godhood by becoming the Seneschal.

-S

[Xioth]

Publicado originalmente por Silvarren:

Grigori is a failed Arisen that progressed far enough to challenge the Seneschal, but chose to return / failed to defeat him. All of the dragons are failed Arisen, actually. You know this because of the things that the dragons around the world say. Most refer to you being the Arisen, some saying "You are not the one..." and so on. Grigori also mentions the fact that you are inflicting the pain on him that he once inflicted on one like himself.

The other dragons appear to be interested in devouring hearts as well.

So no, if you defeat the dragon, you continue the cycle after you defeat the Seneschal. If you accept defeat or choose not to become the Seneschal, you are likely the next Dragon. As for the world not having a Seneschal, no one "overseeing" the world... The world's vitality is directly connected to the Seneschal. That is why the world is becoming unstable / decaying. Savan has lived for countless years, and has grown weary / weak. This is not super-well explained by itself, but there are clues throughout the game that indicate this.

Lastly... Once you become the Seneschal, your pawn is granted your "spark," indicated by the voice swap as they cry out. Pawns live for a LONG time, their appearance never changing. Theoretically, your pawn could become the next Seneschal (after many many many years), assuming they live that long and are called upon by the Seneschal (player character). They would of course, be called upon by another Arisen somewhere in the world (not Grigori, as he's dead. Or as the Seneschal, you could turn your old pawn into the Dragon itself).

-S

(Scour the wiki for the quotes from all of the Dragons and you get a clearer picture)

Am I wrong in assuming that pawns can't die from aging ever? :/

[Xioth]

Publicado originalmente por Silvarren:

Grigori is a failed Arisen that progressed far enough to challenge the Seneschal, but chose to return / failed to defeat him. All of the dragons are failed Arisen, actually. You know this because of the things that the dragons around the world say. Most refer to you being the Arisen, some saying "You are not the one..." and so on. Grigori also mentions the fact that you are inflicting the pain on him that he once inflicted on one like himself.

The other dragons appear to be interested in devouring hearts as well.

So no, if you defeat the dragon, you continue the cycle after you defeat the Seneschal. If you accept defeat or choose not to become the Seneschal, you are likely the next Dragon. As for the world not having a Seneschal, no one "overseeing" the world... The world's vitality is directly connected to the Seneschal. That is why the world is becoming unstable / decaying. Savan has lived for countless years, and has grown weary / weak. This is not super-well explained by itself, but there are clues throughout the game that indicate this.

Lastly... Once you become the Seneschal, your pawn is granted your "spark," indicated by the voice swap as they cry out. Pawns live for a LONG time, their appearance never changing. Theoretically, your pawn could become the next Seneschal (after many many many years), assuming they live that long and are called upon by the Seneschal (player character). They would of course, be called upon by another Arisen somewhere in the world (not Grigori, as he's dead. Or as the Seneschal, you could turn your old pawn into the Dragon itself).

-S

(Scour the wiki for the quotes from all of the Dragons and you get a clearer picture)

Am I wrong in assuming that pawns can't die from aging ever? :/

[Zemeckis]

They really left the ending open to a DD 2 so i hope sometime in the future they make it.

[Dexter]

Nice necro

[MasterManiac]

Publicado originalmente por dexter411:

Nice necro

Nice pointless comment.

[Dexter]

Publicado originalmente por MasterManiac:

Publicado originalmente por dexter411:

Nice necro

Nice pointless comment.

Oh the irony.

[GoldenPresence]

Publicado originalmente por Dexter:

Publicado originalmente por MasterManiac:

Nice pointless comment.

Oh the irony.

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