mage and sorcerer

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i wanted to change my main pawn class to mage and i see there is another one like mage and i wanted to know what is the different between mage and sorcerer and which one
is better

[Lepakko]

Mage is support caster and shorted cast time spells. Can heal too. Sorcerer is damage dealer with bigger and longer casting spells. Just more damage focus but cant heal. Cant say what is better.. all depend do you want healer or damage dealer to your party.

[Nightwalker]

I seems to me that Sorc pawns tend to get rented by other players more frequently than mage pawns, especially at higher levels.

[AfLIcTeD]

Mage pawns are usually useful early game before you get easy access to curatives.

[toasty frosting]

Besides having stronger spells, Sorcerers also have access to Spell Syncing with top tier (Fulmination, Bolide, Gicel, Maelstrom, Seism) spells, which lets sorcs piggyback off of other casting sorcs and significantly cut down their cast times*. They also have access to High Voidspell, which cures Petrification.

Mages have a couple of support spells like Grapnel and High Spellscreen. Anodyne is a nice to have early on, but item healing is too powerful in this game and the spell doesn't scale that great later on. The Legion's Might staff gives mage pawns infinite autorevive.

As for which is better, generally Sorcerer due to the stronger offensive presence and self-synergy. The more Sorcerers you stack, the more the pendulum swings towards Sorcs.

*It puts them at the same point in incantation as the original caster, counting cast time reductions like Articulacy. So if you're currently 11 seconds into High Bolide's cast time, anyone joining starts at that same spot - Bolide is ready to go and they're 4.5 seconds away from High Bolide (provided they know it).

[solidap]

Yes, Sorcerers are usually rented for spell syncing the very high level spells, which Mages can't use. But usually it's players looking for very specific pawn set ups to do that. Through most of the game I'd say the average player will probably pick up a Mage over a Sorcerer. The heal IS useful when playing through the campaign. Most things in BBI will probably kill you in one or two hits, making that heal not as useful lol

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

None is better than the other. They have a different purpose, both are usefull.

Sorcerer is a burst damage dealer.
His purpose is to deal damage with nukes while synch casting with other sorcerers. It also have some utility spell (void spell, necromancy) which makes him okay at specific support task.

Mage is a support.
His purpose is to buff the party with elemental affinities and spellscreen.
He also has access to some elemental (fire, ice, thunder) and CC spells (only grapnel is worth it, but it's a very valuable asset), both mostly for crippling/debilitating ennemies when he isnt busy casting a buff on the party or using healing items.
The early healing and curing spells are just that: early spells. You need to replace them with healing items and spellscreen, which are way better than those spells, asap.

Another big difference between the two is their inclination set-up.
Sorcerers need offensive inclinations (utilitarian/challenger/mitigator in that exact order) to make them cast their nukes and synch cast with other sorcerers.
Mages need medicant fas primary so they will buff the party before trying to damage ennemies (which they are very bad at).
When fighting ghosts, you dont want your mage to try to use elemental attacks while your party needs holy affinity.

[Migromul]

One of the advantages of the support spells of the mage is, that they don't rely on the magic-stat. This is also the reason, why the legions might staff is the best staff for pawn-mages. Just don't rely on damage-spells, then.
The mage has the least grow on stats in average, so if you want to min/max, you need to level up as sorcerer at least untils level 100, when the growth will be much lasser and evened out, so it doesn't matter anymore.
It definitly doesn't hurt, if a mage can defend itself... But if you realy want a damage-supporter, then you shouldn't use the legions might staff and realy consider, which spells you will use.
Healing (anydome) enchanting, grapnell, spellscreen, halidome all don't rely on magic, but have a fixed effect. Even frazile (the frost-aura) and others like that (blinding aura, for example) have a fixed effect. You CAN increase that by several augments, however. But not with the magic-stat.

For sorcerers, on the other side, magic is VERY important!. Since nearly all big sorcerer spells do much damage, magic will greatly increase that. But only direct (magic) damage-effects, not secondary over-time-damage like poison (in case of Misama) or burning (in case for the several fire-spells, especially the fire-wall.)
Gicel, on the other hand, has a physical damage-effect as well. And as far as I remember, this scales with the strength-stat. This and the ice-spike-spell are the only ones, which can damage golem-disks.

Even the Meteor-rain-spell doesn't have physical part as far as I remember. The same is true for the seism-spell. Although both seem to have big physical secondray damage, this isn't true.

[Epitome]

Originally posted by Migromul:

Gicel (...) and ice-spike-spell are only ones, which can damage golem-disks. Even Meteor-rain-spell doesn't have physical part (...) same is true for seism-spell. Although both seem to have big physical secondray damage, this isn't true.

Maybe you should edit wiki article about damage factors.
https://dragonsdogma.fandom.com/wiki/Skill_multiplier_data#Archistaff

[Migromul]

Originally posted by Epitome:

Originally posted by Migromul:

Gicel (...) and ice-spike-spell are only ones, which can damage golem-disks. Even Meteor-rain-spell doesn't have physical part (...) same is true for seism-spell. Although both seem to have big physical secondray damage, this isn't true.

Maybe you should edit wiki article about damage factors.
https://dragonsdogma.fandom.com/wiki/Skill_multiplier_data#Archistaff

I didn't speak of standard-attacks, regardless of type. They DO physical damage. And I also didn't consider fall-damage because of spells. To be clear I'm also not realy sure, if seism does any physical damage or not. Magic billow both as mage and sorcerer also is a melee-attack.

So my statement stays: gicel is the only spell, that can possibly destroy all discs of a metal-golem. (they're partly high floating in the air, so it's just impossible to reach them with a melee-attack.) You will still have a very hard time doing that solo, however.

So the article is ok. I don't consider magic billow and focused bolt spells, but standard-attacks. They also DO scale with the augment, that increases the damage of the normal and heavy STANDARD attacks of a weapon. But this isn't realy worth it for casters. (except magic archers, if you use the standard attack of your bow much.)

The so-called "magic billow" of staffs (not archi-staffs) isn't even a magic attack but an attack with the staff itself not as a focus but as a weapon. (all other spells, including focused bolt, use that as a focus to cast the spell.)

You can trust that wiki on basis. If it says an enchanted focused bolt does also physical damage, I believe that without any doubts. However I didn't test that. Nore will I. (I always have at least one physical-damage-specialist with me, be it strider, ranger or one of the melee-types.)

[Epitome]

Originally posted by Migromul:

Gicel (...) and ice-spike-spell are only ones, which can damage golem-disks. Even Meteor-rain-spell doesn't have physical part (...) same is true for seism-spell. Although both seem to have big physical secondray damage, this isn't true.

Originally posted by Migromul:

So my statement stays: gicel is the only spell, that can possibly destroy all discs of a metal-golem.

What about tests I did right now in swamp behind forest?

Gicel
ice-spike-spell
Meteor-rain-spell (casting under flying disc, projectiles sometimes hit him, and always on the rest of discs)
seism-spell (falling stones sometimes hit discs)
fire enchanted focused bolt

Btw, you can move flying amulet with Maelstorm to where in some arenas you can get it with physical attacks. Also you can just climb on golem and jump to flying amulet to damage it with physical attacks. It's difficult, but not impossible.

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Migromul:

You can trust that wiki on basis. If it says an enchanted focused bolt does also physical damage, I believe that without any doubts. However I didn't test that. Nore will I.

You make me sad.
If all players were like you loads of outright bs (like the claim about Frigor dealing physical damage) would still be present on wiki, unchallenged by anyone.

[Migromul]

Originally posted by Epitome:

Originally posted by Migromul:

Gicel (...) and ice-spike-spell are only ones, which can damage golem-disks. Even Meteor-rain-spell doesn't have physical part (...) same is true for seism-spell. Although both seem to have big physical secondray damage, this isn't true.

Originally posted by Migromul:

So my statement stays: gicel is the only spell, that can possibly destroy all discs of a metal-golem.

What about tests I did right now in swamp behind forest?

Gicel :yesdoit:
ice-spike-spell :XFGP:
Meteor-rain-spell (casting under flying disc, projectiles sometimes hit him, and always on the rest of discs) :yesdoit:
seism-spell (falling stones sometimes hit discs) :yesdoit:
fire enchanted focused bolt :XFGP:

Btw, you can move flying amulet with Maelstorm to where in some arenas you can get it with physical attacks. Also you can just climb on golem and jump to flying amulet to damage it with physical attacks. It's difficult, but not impossible.

Well, maybe the stone-golem discs aren't completely immune to magic damage. But the qustion isn't if they HIT the discs, however, the question is, if the DESTORYED them... You can hit immune monsters and such things, but you still won't damage them if, they're immune.

So: did you DESTROY the metal-golem-discs with those spells?
Whem I said, Meteor doesn't do any physical damage, I'm relying on the wiki. I didn't realy test out any spells. So it's very possible, that I'm wrong. My statements were of best knowledge and conscience.

I think, you can hit and damage at least one stone-golem-disk with the ice-spike-spell. This needs luck and timing, however: the stone-golem has a disc at one of its foots. (underside)

According to the wiki, focused bolt doesn't do any physical damage.
If spell, enchanted, the staff does the enchanted damage. If PERMANENTLY enchanted, the staff does that, if not spell-enchanted. And if not enchanted at all, the staff does neutral magic damage with fouced bolt. This is also true for the non-uploaded bolt. (e. g. the ranged light-attack with the staff.) "focused bolt" is called the uploaded attack. e. g. holding light attack until you get an enchant-animation.

Originally posted by zadymek:

Originally posted by Migromul:

You can trust that wiki on basis. If it says an enchanted focused bolt does also physical damage, I believe that without any doubts. However I didn't test that. Nore will I.

You make me sad.
If all players were like you loads of outright bs (like the claim about Frigor dealing physical damage) would still be present on wiki, unchallenged by anyone.

I don't test any claims, But that doesn't mean, I don't watch them... However, there are very few maglc-immune monsters, and even fewer, where the frigor-spell would be a relieable source of (physical) damage... So in the end it doesn't realy matter. Just take a strider or range with you, or even better, play one yourself, if you want to fight metal-golem. (or even stone-golems...)

[Epitome]

Originally posted by Migromul:

So: did you DESTROY the metal-golem-discs with those spells?

Gicel
ice-spike-spell
Meteor-rain-spell
seism-spell
fire enchanted focused bolt

Originally posted by Migromul:

I think, you can hit and damage at least one stone-golem-disk with the ice-spike-spell. This needs luck and timing, however: the stone-golem has a disc at one of its foots. (underside)

ice-spike-spell

Originally posted by Migromul:

maybe stone-golem discs aren't completely immune to magic damage

completely immune to magic damage (except exequy spell on steel golem discs and destroying discs after exequy kill of golems)

Originally posted by Migromul:

I didn't realy test out any spells. So it's very possible, that I'm wrong. My statements were of best knowledge and conscience (...) I don't test any claims, But that doesn't mean, I don't watch them...

Well, if you don't know, or are not sure, then you need to write, like, for example, me: "perhaps that... I'm not sure, but most likely that... need to check that... based on similar situations probably that..." and so on.

[~⁧⁧kapacb]

Originally posted by Epitome:

Well, if you don't know, or are not sure, then you need to write, like, for example, me: "perhaps that... I'm not sure, but most likely that... need to check that... based on similar situations probably that..." and so on.

Strange you didnt feel obliged to elaborate what you understand as "ddda game like" when suggested neverwinter))
So, why should he

ps fyi he said "i think you can damage" in the latest of his replies, you even quoted it

[~⁧⁧kapacb]

Originally posted by zadymek:

Originally posted by Migromul:

You can trust that wiki on basis. If it says an enchanted focused bolt does also physical damage, I believe that without any doubts. However I didn't test that. Nore will I.

You make me sad.
If all players were like you loads of outright bs (like the claim about Frigor dealing physical damage) would still be present on wiki, unchallenged by anyone.

he never claimed to be an expert or defending his position too much
simple "frigor dont do physical dmg" would ve been enough