Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

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Cyryl Aug 8, 2022 @ 3:38pm
Ruinous Sigil?
After unlocking endgame gear for Mystic Knight I switched to the vocation and I'm having a blast with it post-Daimon.

I see Ruinous Sigil recommended as one of the must-have skills for Mystic Knight. I try to understand why. The only enemies that take meaningful time to kill are Dragons, Living Armors, Condemned Gorecyclops and Daimon. And I do not find the sigil useful in any way while fighting them.

I understand the sigil can be used as defense and cannon trigger. The problem is you can use Full Moon Slash for the same exact purpose with added bonus of shorter cast time and significantly higher damage. You could combine both skills, but the cannon missiles limit holds this strategy back (I dropped Holy Riposte for Inferno Feint for the same reason).

What am I missing?
What do you suggest to take instead?
(other than taking both Antler Toss and Full Moon Slash)

My build (in case it matters):
618 attack / 596 magick
Virge of Madness with Holy Pact

Antler Toss / Full Moon Slash (cannon trigger with knockdown/i-frames)
Great Cannon
Ruinous Sigil

Inferno Feint (cannon trigger, knockdown)
Boltstorm Feint (for fire resistant enemies)
Abyssal Anguish
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Showing 1-15 of 28 comments
Why are you using Antler toss when you have cannon
Cyryl Aug 8, 2022 @ 3:44pm 
Antler Toss is best DPS for Dragons and best cannon trigger. It also knocks down charging Eliminators.
gammav Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:15pm 
runious sigil is one of the way to knockdown condemned cyclops
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2232815901

It can interrupt daimon(first form) vortex too
Guh~hey~hey~♫ Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:42pm 
Elemental damages.

Perillous sigil carry the element of the weapon you got equipped. Same goes for the great canon.
So if you equip an enchanted weapon, the ticks from the sigil and the bolt of the great canon will deal elemental damages. If the target is weak against the element you use, you get a significant damage bonus depending on his percentage of weakness to that element.

You can use Abyssal anguish to increase the amount of bolts generated per swing and add the magic power of your magic shield to the damage of your mace.

Also you can use the combination of PS and GC to create "landmines", put several GC (up to 3) in a single sigil, bait the ennemy inside the sigil and then spam attacks on the canon for even more bolts.

Such well set-up trap is enough to kill a cursed dragon in seconds: equip a fire or holy enchanted weapon, cast abyssal anguish, set the trap where the cursed dragon should spawn, then use the rancid bait meat to make it spawn in your trap.....

To take full advantage, you will need at least 3 weapons, a fire, a thunder and an ice weapon (sword or mace), switch to the right weapon depending on your ennemy's elemental weakness, then cast your shield counter.

With that kind of set-up, it's better to use holy feint.
Equip a weapon with the right element, cast a couple GC then bait the ennemy into attacking you close to the GC (keep the GC between you and your target), the holy orbs from holy feint will trigger tons of bolts from the GCs, bolt that will have the element of your weapon.

It's also better to use fullmoon slash, no tonly for the iframe but also because it allow you to hit several GC at the same time.

PS and GC damages dont scale much with the weapon attack power, so using a weaker weapon but that has the right element will deal better damages than using a stronger weapon with no element or the wrong element.

Something else with PS and GC: they carry special weapons debilitations. It's not very usefull to torpor (torpor isnt a good tactic for MK, since you need your ennemies to attack you to be able to spam your shield counters), but very usefull to silence with golden weapons (mostly for dark bishop and wyverns).


For holy pact, only use it when you swap to a staff, to abuse holy focus bolt (best method against ghosts for example).
zadymek Aug 8, 2022 @ 4:47pm 
Originally posted by Cyryl:
I see Ruinous Sigil recommended as one of the must-have skills for Mystic Knight. I try to understand why. The only enemies that take meaningful time to kill are Dragons, Living Armors, Condemned Gorecyclops and Daimon. And I do not find the sigil useful in any way while fighting them.
Well, obviously the skill recommendations concern time when you are not OP yet. With the OP gear you can use whatever, even cannons.

Plus, you have to take into consideration that ppl have different biases/playstayles so whatever works for them doesn't necessarily works for you.

BTW If you do not find relatively quick to cast, rapidly hitting magickal skill useful vs LAs and dragons then I have no idea what your playstyle is.
Originally posted by Cyryl:
What am I missing?
1. You confuse defensive with evasive, for one. The point of Sigil is area denial, an aggresive defense, while with FMS you get few miliseconds of i-frames, evasion. Also, you can place two of these babies and force some enemies into the corner this way.

2. FMS being low hitting evasive physical skill is pretty much pointless for your Vocation, while Ruinous Sigil is a spell. And you are a caster.

Now, the bulk of Sigil damage comes from the fact that it may deal full power Neutral Magick damage (without elemental weapon) or relatively high elemental damage. And it does that really fast.
But
let's not forget about interruption, the knockdown power. The sigil hits hard enough to stop a charging Eliminiator, while you can focus on something else, like casting a Stone Forest, for instance.

3. The main limitation of Ruinous Sigil is that it's a ground based skill.
BTW The erratic geometry of some BBI floors messes up this skill pretty hard at times.

So you won't have much use of it against enemies that cannot make a contact with it (that includes maneaters) or make only brief contact - you have to knockdown such biggies first, so that natually excludes Daimon, probably Prisoner too (it's complicated)

But Dragons and LAs? Knockdown is like 101 forfighting these. I didn't notice any mention of Hard Mode, so what's the problem here?
Lucifer69 Aug 8, 2022 @ 5:12pm 
There's only a few fights where I drop sigil. I usually am busy spamming full moon on great cannon or perfect blocking with ripostes. I don't even rely on anguish much.

I like to be more mobile so there's even times when I drop sigil entirely for antler toss.
Cyryl Aug 8, 2022 @ 7:07pm 
Thank you all for detailed answers!

Guh~hey~hey:
I understand the elements theory. I tested it (happily my pawn learned to cast Holy Pact only when asked). During the time it takes to cast Ruinous Sigil (even with the right element) you will do more damage spaming FMS (while being safer) and even more with Antler Toss. Living Armor second form is an obvious exception.
Thank you for Condemned Gorecyclops tip - it looks much more fun than mu current strategy (climbing them and stabbing in the eye with Abyssial Anguish on). I will also try your suggestion to use gold weapons for Wyrms and Wyverns. Your Cursed Dragon trap sounds woth testing as well.
Regarding Holy Riposte for triggering cannon - like you said, it is amazing when it works. It is also buggy as hell: sometimes things die, sometimes none of the missiles connects. It is a matter of preference: Inferno Feint is not as spectacular, but you get consistent 15 cannon missiles form it.

zadymek:
I think your first sentence pretty much explains my disappointment with the skill - the raw power of Virge of Madness and Devilsbane sways the power from Ruinous Sigil to FMS and Antler Toss.
Regarding Mystic Knight being a caster: well, it is physical/magical hybrid. I just use what is more efficient in terms of damage and knockdown. In late game everything other than LA second form (including Dragons) dies faster to FMS and Antler Toss. If you wonder how I kill LA second form without RS: Great Cannon kills them faster than RS.
I never tried using RS against charging Eliminator - thanks for the tip!
I will also test your suggestion to combine RS with Stone Jungle.

Lucifer69:
Looks like we have similar playstyles :)
Last edited by Cyryl; Aug 9, 2022 @ 6:18am
Calculus Aug 9, 2022 @ 3:22am 
Sigil is very nice when you pair it with the right element to which enemy is weak to. For example against elder ogres sigil with shock is really powerful, you plant it, it gets knocked down, so you plant it under it's head dealing massive damage.

And if you enjoy full moon slash playstyle i guess that fighter would be better than mystic knight for you.
Cyryl Aug 9, 2022 @ 3:47am 
Mystic Knight has several advantages over Fighter though:
1) Better parries
2) Great Cannon
3) Abyssal Anguish
4) maces are generally better than swords

Fighter has Dragon's Maw. Its great by all means but I am happy to sacrifice DM to get the 4 above.
Guh~hey~hey~♫ Aug 9, 2022 @ 3:59am 
It's not buggy....it's just that control over the bolt trajectory is inexistant, or rather, the turning speed of the bolts is low so if you shoot from too close, they dont have the time to turn toward their target... that's why you need to bait ennemies right above the GC, preferably with their weak spot facing them, better shooting....

Perillous sigil is a pretty safe method of fighting if you use MK has it is intended....
With a MK you fight mainly using your shield counters, whenever you perfect block an attack, your target get staggered and/or slowed down by the hits from the counter (that's what make holy feint so good, it deals lot of hits and so it slows down the target for a longer time).
That's the time window you use to cast first a GC, and then PS to trigger that GC....
...only one cast per succesfull perfect block though....
if your target attack fast enough (that's why you dont want to torpor it), you will be able to stack several GC and PS dealing lot of DoT while you spam your shield counters.
The big amount of hits dealt with that method will also increase the chances to afflict your target with the elemental special effect (burn, shock, freeze, heal-self...) of your enchanted weapon.

Yeah..... climbing an ennemy who's not knocked down is a very bad tactic, especially if you arent a strider....
Best way to handle CGC as a MK is to knock it down with shield counter (thunder or ice), use the GC/PS using the time windows created by the counters (to fasten the KD power stacking), then, once the CGC get knocked down, climb his face to directly attack his eye, jump off when he start to get back up (before you find yourself to high up to jump without taking damage)... rince and repeat untill it dies.... (shouldnt take more than 3 KDs).

Oh... btw, the cheapest method to climb-kill a CGC is to grab his right heel and attack him here.... not the fastest, but incredibly cheap and easy since he cant reach you here (just jump off when he use his stomping).
CGC isnt designed to be clmibed while he's standing (that's why almost all his attack have shake off effect, his armor is spiked and he has fast grab attack against climber).
Cyryl Aug 9, 2022 @ 4:30am 
I used to keep Gloves of Might in inventory just for CGC ;)
I just tested your method - much more fun.

Thanks for the explanation of Blessed Riposte - I will put more effort into learning its quirks. That leaves me with spot for 1 other Feint - what element do you suggest to compliment holy? Boltstorm?
Last edited by Cyryl; Aug 9, 2022 @ 6:14am
Calculus Aug 9, 2022 @ 5:36am 
Originally posted by Cyryl:
Mystic Knight has several advantages over Fighter though:
1) Better parries
2) Great Cannon
3) Abyssal Anguish
4) maces are generally better than swords

Fighter has Dragon's Maw. Its great by all means but I am happy to sacrifice DM to get the 4 above.

Well, fighter has also shielded assault, shield bash (for staggering blocking enemies) and soul skewer.
Fighter is more aggressive playstyle, which uses invincibility frames, while mystic knight uses parries.
I had to point that out because you said about only sacrificing dragons maw... and i had to do give some justice to fighter because he is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on enough already for not having ranged attacks.
Guh~hey~hey~♫ Aug 9, 2022 @ 5:59am 
Main problems with fighter are:
- he completely lack any form of ranged attack.
- he's designed for a low stamina high HP build, same as MK, difference being that fighter main mean of combat (sword skills) consumme stamina at each use (antler, fullmoonslash, etc) while mystik knight main mean of combat (shield counters) only consumme stamina when you cast the buff, then you spamm your shield counters for free.... That's what make dragon maw a not so good skill, it consumme lot of stamina....

On fighter the main weapon is the sword, the shield is just a mean to avoid damages and do other tank-things...
On MK the main weapon is the shield, the sword/mace is the retaliation/finishing-move tool that you only use once your target is in a disadvantageous position (caught in a shield counter spell, staggered or knocked down).
That make MK a better tank with more endurance and a more efficient use of stamina. Also a tank that can counter ranged attackers when fighter can only suffer ranged attacks....


And about mace and swords on MK. When you go with the elemental method, it's better to go with swords....
The small difference in damage wont really matter compared to the elemental damages while having slightly lighter weapons will matter more since you'll have to carry several weapons (3, one for each basic element).

But now, since you stilll need to carry a purely physical weapon (for ennemies immune to magic or with non-exploitable elemental weakness), it's best to also bring the virge of madness as default weapon along the elemental swords (also a golden sword or mace and a mage staff)..
Calculus Aug 9, 2022 @ 6:19am 
Originally posted by Guh~hey~hey~♫:
Main problems with fighter are:
- he completely lack any form of ranged attack.
- he's designed for a low stamina high HP build, same as MK, difference being that fighter main mean of combat (sword skills) consumme stamina at each use (antler, fullmoonslash, etc) while mystik knight main mean of combat (shield counters) only consumme stamina when you cast the buff, then you spamm your shield counters for free.... That's what make dragon maw a not so good skill, it consumme lot of stamina....

The second part isn't true, you can easily use high stamina build on a fighter, which also gets more dmg, but it is a glass cannon build, so you have to effectively use invincibility frames and baleful nails are in my opinion recommended.
But yes, lack of ranged attack is terrible for both fighter and warrior.
Cyryl Aug 9, 2022 @ 6:26am 
Warrior at least offers unique playstyle. Fighter seems redundant with Mystick Knight and Assassin available. Both can mimic Fighter playstyle while covering its weakness at range (cannon, bow) and while climbing (anguish, gauge/kisses).
Last edited by Cyryl; Aug 9, 2022 @ 6:27am
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Date Posted: Aug 8, 2022 @ 3:38pm
Posts: 28