mage or sorceror which is better for my pawn?

[prime11]

currently lv 56, maxed out fighter and warrior on me and my pawn. i'm about to lv up both mage and sorceror on my pawn. I havn't tried wither. What is everyones go-to skills, and which vocation is better? having a support pawn is all good, but i also want a magic pawn than can kick a**

[Ͽ҈҉Ͼ]

level 50-100 you're probably best leveling the pawn as a sorc for the higher stat growth. Past level 50, you're also probably coming to the end of areas where you are getting much benefit from healing or curing spells, so skillwise you probably wouldn't gain much from a mage.

Depending on if you're at pre-dragon, post-dragon, or doing BBI runs will change what sorts of skills you want on a sorc. Generally though:

High Ingle
Holy Boon
High Miasma

with your other three skills being based on your current needs.

[Huggles the Cat]

This is a seriously complex thing to answer. There are short and sweat answers that normally follow the lines of Sorcerer is best if you're looking for raw magic damage output and mages for raw healing and support. But both can be made incredibly more specialized than just those two generalizations.

My favorite might be the mage after having done an indepth look at my own pawn being mage from start to finish (with a little min/max from other vocations). Sorcerer's are probably the go-to for end game stuff and BBI but with "very" careful planing of skills, augments, inclinations, and knowledge, the mage is more than capable of going into any part of the game and holding their own.

Ultimatly, the strong points of the mage are the fast spells that have strong knockdown/stagger potential (and high damage if elements are correct). Their support buffs including Grappnel (not as useful on hard mode since grappnel seems to run off of stagger/knockdown resistance). And their healing. For inexperianced players, having a mage keep an eye on your health in bbi is a godsend (as my friend can attes) but for more experianced players this isn't needed but High Halidom is a great subsitute as the only debilitation you'll need to carry cures for is petrification and lowered stats. Lowered stats isn't common but there are a lot of monsters that can cause poison, torper, and blind in quick succession, with petrification also being fairly present in some areas with evil eyes and cockatrices.

I could go on for pages about mages (i have in other topics), but i'll just list my fave skills and inclinations for them here. I'm not as knowledgeable on sorcerers since i've yet to do a good in depth look at them like mages but will eventualy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Staff - High Ingle/High Frigor/High Grapnel/High Silentium/High Halidom/Holy Affinity
Augment - Sinew(Ft)/Conservation(So)/Preperation(Ma)/Emphasis(So)/Gravitas(So)/Articulacy(So)

I will generally swap High Halidom for High Anodyne as needed. You may want to swap out Sinew for Beatitude if you aren't going to have them carry a lot of stuff like healing items or random loot. Preparation could also be swapped out for Beatitude if you're not going to use enchantment spells or Spellscreen.

My chosen inclinations are (in order of Primary on farthest left) Utilitarian/Mitigator/Medicant/Challenger with Challenger and Medicant being jockeyed from 3rd to 4th and back as I need more aggression and less healing. If you aren't using anodyne at all, then you may want to keep Medicant at least in 3rd since they will still use group healing items more frequently (and spring water starts to seem a little lacking compared to a Kingswarish herb by end game or a 3,000+ HP character).

[TheBoogerMan]

As others have posted; I'd say Sorcerer overall. You should still put your Pawn through Mage for the Augments though (except Inflection - you shouldn't even waste Discipline on it cuz it's bugged; instead of halving the damage you take while charging spells, it more than doubles it).

There also comes a point at higher levels where magical healing just can't keep up - on BBI in particular. Your hit points totals are so high and foes do so much damage that Anodyne is to slow, both in casting time and waiting to heal. At that point it's time to invest in Curatives, which heal you instantaneously and fully (not just the white portion of the empty health bar).

My Pawn and Arisen or both in the 150s or 160s now and I NEVER hire healing Pawns anymore cuz there's just no point.

EDIT: Oh, and if it matters - my Sorcerer Pawn's Inclinations are always set at Utilitarian/Challenger/Mitigator.

[prime11]

thanks everyone, i'll get both maxed out and try few things

[Huggles the Cat]

Originally posted by prime11:

thanks everyone, i'll get both maxed out and try few things

I think we all forgot to mention that debilitation spells are also very good but only on a well knowledgable pawn. They need to know the enemy is weak to it other wise they just spam it. If they know how to use debilitations they are also very helpful (especialy with sorcerer's Lastitude spell).

[H4NS]

I'd say it's harder to find a good mage than a good sorc in the rift.

So I'd go with Mage.

Read up on https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/comments/579y81/theorycraft_howto_make_mage_pawns_useful_endgame/

Especially Burlsol's reply

[Huggles the Cat]

Originally posted by H4NS:

I'd say it's harder to find a good mage than a good sorc in the rift.

So I'd go with Mage.

Read up on https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/comments/579y81/theorycraft_howto_make_mage_pawns_useful_endgame/

Especially Burlsol's reply

That's mostly the same conclusion I came to though have a different viewpoint than the author on a few things. I don't think it's a total lose to have high anodyne if you have both a wyrmking ring and articulacy to shorten the cast time. I found the shorter cast time on it to be acceptable when I used my mage pawn but i normally traded it out for halidom and threw in an extra knockdown spell or something else more helpful by mid game. A friend that as super inexperianced with BBI did fine the high anodye's faster recovery rate (compared to anodyne) to be a life saver in his game since he just couldn't fine enough healing items to keep in stock and would be too heavy to move well at the times he did go in prepared (over prepared in my oppinion). Seem's for those lacking skill in combat, the sped up high anodyne is what they prefer but the high halidom sure is the best heal spell they have given bbi's love of debilitating attacks.

[prime11]

so i ended up re-rollin, for a max stat sorcerer pawn, not going into details, thats on a diff thread lol. but anyway, what are good inclanations for sorcerer? im so use to scather on fighters lol

[i hanjo scorpion-ranger]

mage is good when all your peeps carry mere physical weapons, for the buffs, but if your so into it, play mystic knight, they got that hold spell, but if youre into that get rusted weapons, they can heal but you can hotkey potent greenwarish and resurrect, so what's the deal, they can debuff but what's the deal. i dislike mage pawns.

sorcerer pawns are especially useful for bitterblack isle, especially if you yourself are lower level or ill equipped. you want fulmination bolide on your pawn, fumination for garm and elder ogre, also cockatrice, living armor, eliminators, gicel to have something icy and against banshees, gorecyclops, drakes, it's good, then there is the big maelstroem, which annihilates a lot of things, for instant the dragon, condemned gorecyclops, elder ogres, lesser dragons, crowds of any kind, but sorcerers aren't as intelligent as arisen sorcs, so try it out.

then you have 2 spells left, i'd say you choose from voidspell (but you can get gear against petriefication and carry secret softeners, so), an affinity spell, preferably holy, one or two fast casting spells, preferably levin or ingle. but it's all up to you.

here comes the main thing though, consider don't upgrading bolide gicel and maelstroem on your pawn. you can't make it undone and the lower tier spells have faster cast and are usually enough .

also i suggest you don't level your pawn as a sorcerer or mage, if you want to go to 200 level sorc from 100 on, before the stat growth is just too poor. if you level sorc pawn as something with 3 mag attack growth you lose 190 magick and anyway, with a good staff it doesn't matter at all. if something is weak to fulmination when it's cast it's done, bolide and maelstroem also have a high stun rate, gicel mostly is for high resistant weaker foes and the fast cast spells are for weaker foes anyway. so. no difference.

i don't see how 50 potent greenwarish could be too heavy. of course you get sinew and leg-strength on your arisen, of course you'll go for trophy boots or +20 armor 3 boots later on. just play with a dragonforged or upgraded princess dress if you're too heavy.

[i hanjo scorpion-ranger]

scather also makes them climb sometimes, also makes them get in too close, they abort spells when attacked no matter their resistances. challenger mitigator is good i guess, also utilitarian, as 3rd, but you know, bestiary knowledge.

be aware that some of the higher spells take a lot of stamina, so sorc pawn is in use of some. also sorc armor usually lacks defense (has magick defense instead), so fighter or strider rly is a decent choice, just get into the 3rd stage of bitterblack isle pre daimon, grab some weapon 2, get your hallowed dragon. also weapon 1 dragons risen is good enough. no need for rerolling or max-statting, rly. sorcerer should damage a lot when he's able to cast, 100 200 mag more makes no difference, just stay alive and revive if you have to. i have a lot of experience building sorcerer pawns and i'll reroll even though she has 5 million rc, only to disunlock high gicel, high maelstroem, high bolide, maybe even high fulmination. i'll reroll for that AND i will level her as fighter or strider or ranger. be aware that some spells, actually the only useful are bolide and gicel (i guess) also have a strength portion that determines damage, i don't know right now though if it is staff strength only or also base strength, look it up if you care. and typically, what's weak to fulmination will die no matter what, what's weak to maelstroem will be severly damaged (2 high maelstroems kill a condemned gorecyclops, 1 high almost kills grigori), and your jack of all trade nuke will be bolide. so.

oh, and be sure to look up noble quarter postgame vocation leveling or something like that, also asura armor (as good as 2 rings of perseverance). since the main game is quite easy just try to finish it early, only tough fight is grigori, get mystic knight to great cannon and get dark trance, savescum almace from soulflayer canyon or midnight helix, get those snow harpy pinions and you'll have an easy time against the dragon, also get a nice shield and sword. so you maybe want to level vocations post game, it's the easiest fastest way.

oh and some say you should also refrain from gettin the hold attack button staff skills on your pawn, since they either don't use them or spam them (holding the heavy attack charge without releasing).

if you need money (just visited your page) get strider master thief and visit midnight helix condemned gorecyclops, google if interested. 3,5 million in half an hour.

[Huggles the Cat]

Originally posted by prime11:

so i ended up re-rollin, for a max stat sorcerer pawn, not going into details, thats on a diff thread lol. but anyway, what are good inclanations for sorcerer? im so use to scather on fighters lol

Utilitarian/Challenger/Mitigator. With Utilitarian your sorcerer will try to spell sync with other sorcerers which will shorten both of their cast times. spell sync is only doable with the five mega attack spells that are exclusive to their class (Seisem, Malstrom, Gicel, Fulmination, and Bolide). The more sorcerer that are synced, the faster the spells will charge. With utilitarian as a primary it makes this more likely to happen.

Challenger will have them targeting anything with a ranged attack. Not just archers and wizerds, but stone throwing goblins, fire breathing dragons, spell casting chimera, spiting sourians, and the list goes on. Mitigator is also good for helping them to target weaking foes when there are no more challenger targets left (if challenger is above mitigator in the inclinations slots). these are typicly the enemies with low defense, low strength, and low health.

From what is posted in the wiki, while Utilitarian is all that is needed to encourage spell sync, many players have seen an increased rate of spell sync by having utilitarian as primary, challenger as secondary, and mitigator as the third (hidden) inclination. You can check your third inclination by using a knowledge chair as the two inclinations your pawn will ask you to choose between as a top priority are your second and third inclinations (you are essentialy sawping their position and hidden values that determin their position).

[prime11]

thanks, thats just the info i was looking for. utilitarian as main, challenger 2d, mitigator 3rd, which i didnt relize the 3rd is hidden. heh learn something new every day lol. oh yea i know theres books or scrolls i can get to change the vocations. where can i get them? and is it worth grabbing them?

[Huggles the Cat]

Originally posted by prime11:

thanks, thats just the info i was looking for. utilitarian as main, challenger 2d, mitigator 3rd, which i didnt relize the 3rd is hidden. heh learn something new every day lol. oh yea i know theres books or scrolls i can get to change the vocations. where can i get them? and is it worth grabbing them?

They aren't scrolls but elixors. You buy them from the old man next to the rift stone in The Encampment (I think his name is Johnathan). The yonly cost around 250 RC each. They are very much worth it if you need to change (or experament) with different inclinations on your pawn. Using one will push that inclination into the secondary slot. If that inclination is already secondary, it will become primary. Therefore, you can use 2 of the same inclination elixor on an inclination that isn't secondary or primary and it will become your new primary inclination. Whatever inclination you have for your primary will be pushed into secondary. This is a good way to ensure what inclination you have in the third slot.

An example would be to get Utilitarian/Challenger/Mitigator you would first use 2 Mitigator, then 2 Challenger, and finally 2 Utilitarian elixors. It also helps to have a 4th slot inclination to act as a buffer as inclinations like nexus, guardian, and aquisitor tend to creep back into the top three slots (thus changing pawn behavior). Pawn behavior is determined by the top three inclinations so if you want a specific inclination for the 4th slot, just use 1 or 2 elixors of whatever inclination you want to be pushed from the third slot and into the fourth slot.

It might help to read up on some inclinations here if you ever feel lost or need to learn what one does (the in-game descriptions aren't always the best).
http://dragonsdogma.wikia.com/wiki/Pawn_Inclination

[prime11]

cool cool, good info. 1 more question, i think someone somewhere answered this, but theres alot of reading to go through lol. so as a sorcerer pawn, what skills should i put in when the vocation is maxed out, Im not lv sorc up till around lv 60 i think, and im lv22 atm so theres time lol. could someone just list the good skills for me please :D

[Huggles the Cat]

Originally posted by prime11:

cool cool, good info. 1 more question, i think someone somewhere answered this, but theres alot of reading to go through lol. so as a sorcerer pawn, what skills should i put in when the vocation is maxed out, Im not lv sorc up till around lv 60 i think, and im lv22 atm so theres time lol. could someone just list the good skills for me please :D

Keep in mind all skills are situation and while some are fine on their own, others do better when used along side certain spells/skills. You can get a hint at some of these by reading their pages on the wiki but fore the most part you will need to feel; them out and experament on your own or with community feed back. Aside from using these forums or the reddit sub forum for the game, there is also an active discord group that can provide live feedback when users are there. Everyone in these forums and chat groups have different play styles and viewpoints so it can help to look around and poke different people or groups.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/
https://discord.gg/7htm5Ap

My favorite sorcerer spells are:
*All of the big flashy spells: Gicel, Malstrom, Bolide, Seisem, Fulmination). These are their nuke spells and take a long time to charge; but are absolutly devistating as well as the only spells in the game that can be charged faster by having more than one sorcerer stand next to each other while charging the same spell [spell sync]. Read up on each of these as each one has something that makes it unique in application.
*Silentium
*Lastitude
*Miasma
*Holy Affinity
*High Void Spell (only spell that cures petrify)
*One fast charging spell to offset any of the longer nuke spells. These are the basic and advanced mage attack spells Ingle, Frazzil, Levin, Comustion, Frigor, and Lastitude. Miasma has a charge time similar to Comustion, Frigor, and Lastitude. You could probably use Miasma as your choice of fast charge spell as it will continue to damage anyone standing in it's sphere of poison.

Favorit Augments are:
*Sinew(Fighter) Because I like them to stay as light weight as possible for as long as possible.
*Attunment (Mage) increase magic attack by 10% (A possible replacment for Emphasis).
*Acuity(Sorcerer) Increse magic attack by 20%
*Emphasis(Sorcerer) increase ability to knockdown and stagger with spells that inflict it (ingle, frigor, comestion, bolide, gicel, malstrom, and seisem. This may be a useless augment since the nuke spells ;kill most things in one cast and already have massive knockdown/stagger power. This is mostly helpful on those few fast charge spells are aren't as able to stun.
*Gravitas(Sorcerer) Incresed stagger and knockdown resistance while charging spells. Mostly needed for sorcerer pawns as having for knockdown/stagger resistsance means they won't fear enemies that get too close (which normally makes them stop charging a spell and run). Ogre Bone rings are also a good way to boost this stat and are recomended to have 2 equiped (+15 stagger/knockdown resistance each)
*Conservation(Sorcerer) 25% less stamina cost on spells
*Articulacy(Sorcerer) 10% faster spell charges. (if you get the Wyrmking's Ring, make a copy of it and keep the original. Whomever has the original in their inventory will have it's magic effect of 10% reduced spellcharge time. This can be combined with Articulacy for a total of 20% faster spell charges.)
*Magnitude (Magic Archer) Only available for arisen sorcerer's since it is from a hubrid vocation. Increases the rate of inflicting debilitations with magic. Do not mistake this for Morbidity. Morbidity is the same this but for debilitations inflicted by weapons and physical attacks. It has little business being on a sorcerer or mage.

Whatever you do, do not equipe the augment (from mage) called Inflection. It is buged and used to reduce damage while charging a spell by half. After dark arisen was added, it "increased" damage by double or more. There is a ;;mod that fixes it but i've yet to test it and see if it works.