Sapfire Daggers vs Heaven's Key

[Tempest Fox3]

Currently using Gold rarefied Heaven's Key on my Magick archer, just wondering if it's worth replacing these (And doing the work to gold rarify) some Sapfire Daggers.

The Sapfires get better stats and a Defence debuff ailment at the cost of a weaker base element. I assume the element can be changed with Enchants from a Pawn but is the difference enough to justify the effort?

[Pendergast891]

personally heaven's keys are as good when compared to sapfire (or close) against almost all monsters except for the Dragon and Dark Bishop. Too many things have good fire resistance.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

Originally posted by Pendergast891:

personally heaven's keys are as good when compared to sapfire (or close) against almost all monsters except for the Dragon and Dark Bishop. Too many things have good fire resistance.

Holy daggers drop DR by 30%? News to me.

[zadymek]

Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

Holy daggers drop DR by 30%? News to me.

Defenses Lowered is useful for Cheesy Archer?
News to me ;)

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

Only purpose of heaven's key is to killl ghost ennemies (living armors are ghosts) as a physical vocation. If you already have magic attacks you dont need that gimmick.
As for Sapfire daggers.... consider this as a niche (aka equip it only when doing that specific tactic) weapon which only purpose for a magic archer is to improve the efficiency of immolation when climbing ennemies weak to fire. In any other situation, you'll get better result using tarring weapons before cribling your target with explosive volley.

You simply dont DPS with your daggers as a MA (and as a ranger either), you use them for instant reset, ensnare and magic rebalancer... a pair of rusted/golden daggers is way more indicated since you can also use them to debilitate without having to swap weapon.
No matter your skill build, your magic bow is way stronger than your daggers, and so are your magic bow skills.

I know that some like to use thousand kisses, immolation or sunflare, but those arent good DPS skills, just fancy gimmicks with mostly niche uses. Only okay if you're more into fanciness than efficiency...
And this is for one simple reason: Your magic bow is way more powerfull than any permanently enchanted dagger with split damages.... you got way better use for your dagger skills slots (IR, MR, ensnare).

Compare this with trying to equip a bayonnet at the tip of a battleship cannon.... fancy looking, but dumb and pointless.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

You simply dont DPS with your daggers as a MA

Lol, no. Just no.

Sustained bb3 dps and Immolation is roughly double what the Blackwing can do in the same amount of time. The niche of the Blackwing is not having your burst damage ever modified by distance regardless of source or enemy type.

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

You simply dont DPS with your daggers as a MA

Lol, no. Just no.

Sustained bb3 dps and Immolation is roughly double what the Blackwing can do in the same amount of time. The niche of the Blackwing is not having your burst damage ever midfied by distance regardless of source or enemy type.

yes, just yes.

But well, anybody can just try it and see for themselves.... how much time it takes to kill something with immolation compared to how much time it takes to kill the same thing with their magic bow boosted by 4 stacks of magic rebalancer and either explosive volley, riccochet hunter or ninefold bolt...

And that's without taking into account the effect ennemies defenses have against split damage attacks...

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

Nah.

In the last thread I posted the video evidence of exactly how wrong you were then, and the game hasn't been updated since. Point of fact is, the videos I posted were with World Mod Quarantine Gift, which have about double the DR of Hard, so the TTK would be even faster, and on top of that it was with a pure MK build with no sorcerer/assassin ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on top of that. Nevermind by the time you've cast your 4x rebalancer the target in question is already dead.

You're just wrong as ♥♥♥♥.

[Pendergast891]

Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

Nah.

In the last thread I posted the video evidence of exactly how wrong you were then, and the game hasn't been updated since. Point of fact is, the videos I posted were with World Mod Quarantine Gift, which have about double the DR of Hard, so the TTK would be even faster, and on top of that it was with a pure MK build with no sorcerer/assassin ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on top of that.

You're just wrong as ♥♥♥♥.

considering % damage taken is a decay curve, you only proved that for the harder difficulty mod that doubles the defenses makes the % reduction in defense stronger. Also the more belligerent you are with your argumentation the less people will take you seriously and would just outright ignore you.

to OP: from a similar question on a reddit post, it all came down to preference with there being such thin margins of actual damage differences due to magic damage of one being much higher due to elemental resistances and the physical damage of the other being higher, but still less than framae blades unless you're playing a modded game.

Defense down effect on hit or healing on hit. That, and how annoying are wraiths for you, and how much effort do you want to invest in upgrading an entirely fresh set of daggers? Unless you're speeding running kills, Heaven's keys will be more than adequate to carry you through most bbi encounters

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

Nah.

In the last thread I posted the video evidence of exactly how wrong you were then, and the game hasn't been updated since. Point of fact is, the videos I posted were with World Mod Quarantine Gift, which have about double the DR of Hard, so the TTK would be even faster, and on top of that it was with a pure MK build with no sorcerer/assassin ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on top of that. Nevermind by the time you've cast your 4x rebalancer the target in question is already dead.

You're just wrong as ♥♥♥♥.

Only situation where immolation come close is when fighting an ennemy weak to fire, but it's still weaker. Immolation also require physical augments (beside the magic augments for your other skills...) and eventually climbing augments, when magic bow only require focusing on magic damages (2 augments).

Repeating your delusions dont make them "evidences", or rather not evidences that they are true....

But as I said, anybody can try and see for themselves.... or just check the magic damage of a magic bow, mutlitply that number with the damages boost of 4 magic rebalancer, then compare it to the damage of a split damages dagger that need to overcome both and separately the magic and physical defense of the ennemy before dealing any damages....and no, the ridiculous dot of the burning effect doesnt make for the difference (also magic bow skill are also able to give that debilitation).

And last but not least.... you wont KD anything with immolation.... while explosive rivert, riccochet hunter or ninfold bolt will, in seconds, multiplying your damages even more.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

Originally posted by Guh~hey~hey~♫:

Originally posted by Grr. SG CMD Majah Lazah:

Nah.

In the last thread I posted the video evidence of exactly how wrong you were then, and the game hasn't been updated since. Point of fact is, the videos I posted were with World Mod Quarantine Gift, which have about double the DR of Hard, so the TTK would be even faster, and on top of that it was with a pure MK build with no sorcerer/assassin ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on top of that. Nevermind by the time you've cast your 4x rebalancer the target in question is already dead.

You're just wrong as ♥♥♥♥.

Only situation where immolation come close is when fighting an ennemy weak to fire, but it's still weaker. Immolation also require physical augments (beside the magic augments for your other skills...) and eventually climbing augments, when magic bow only require focusing on magic damages (2 augments).

Repeating your delusions dont make them "evidences", or rather not evidences that they are true....

But as I said, anybody can try and see for themselves.... or just check the magic damage of a magic bow, mutlitply that number with the damages boost of 4 magic rebalancer, then compare it to the damage of a split damages dagger that need to overcome both and separately the magic and physical defense of the ennemy before dealing any damages....and no, the ridiculous dot of the burning effect doesnt make for the difference (also magic bow skill are also able to give that debilitation).

And last but not least.... you wont KD anything with immolation.... while explosive rivert, riccochet hunter or ninfold bolt will, in seconds, multiplying your damages even more.

Wrong.

Immolation does impact and is plenty fine at causing KD, and yes anyone can see you're wrong by viewing said videos in the original thread with dead monsters by time you'd have your yugioh trap card cast in the first place.

Your use of spread sheet logic is quite simply defenestrated by the game itself, much akin to "you can 11 billion damages with MK holy reflect on cannon, omg so much damages" meanwhile a knight with double abyssal/holy mace is already three rooms ahead despite supposedly so much less damage per instance.

[zadymek]

I'm just going to leave this here

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2504580385