Does playing at different frame-rates alter mechanics?

[Briggs]

Reading various things around the internet (which I've verified) a number of parameters are specified in "frames". For example: perfect block. The Prescience augment adds a number of extra frames as do some of the Mystic Knight's counters. If I play the game at 60fps, will I have half as much time to react as compared to if I run it at 30fps.

Also some duration are given in frames rather than seconds (I believe the Great Cannon is like this). Again, will this half the duration?

I've poked around in the game files and can verify that what I've read is true. I have not taken a stop watch to these things, and I certainly can't test perfect block...unless I increase the perfect block frames to some ludicrous amount...

[Chrysalis]

I personally never experienced any changes to the mechanics based on the frame rate.
I tested the Mystic Knight's Counters with 60 fps, 30 fps and 20 fps and I didn't notice any differences concerning the reaction time.
If there are any changes to the game mechanic based on the framerate, they weren't noticeable (at least for me).

[Briggs]

Thanks for that confirmation. I'm guessing then that Capcom (a seemingly competent dev...unlike Bethesda) put something in to compensate for this.

[zadymek]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

Thanks for that confirmation. I'm guessing then that Capcom (a seemingly competent dev...unlike Bethesda) put something in to compensate for this.

Well, first of all: every time you read about frames it's the ppl, players, that say so. And most likely these are ppl's conclusions from the console era of the game, the 30fps era (and Dark Souls era, clearly the fps calcualtions were inspired by DS wiki).

Now the game (the remaster) has variable framerates. Are you seeing these ppl changing their framerate calcuclations?

[Briggs]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zadymek:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

Thanks for that confirmation. I'm guessing then that Capcom (a seemingly competent dev...unlike Bethesda) put something in to compensate for this.

Well, first of all: every time you read about frames it's the ppl, players, that say so. And most likely these are ppl's conclusions from the console era of the game, the 30fps era (and Dark Souls era, clearly the fps calcualtions were inspired by DS wiki).

Now the game (the remaster) has variable framerates. Are you seeing these ppl changing their framerate calcuclations?

The actual parameters given for a number of abilities are specified in frames. It's not just people saying it. It's right there in the game files. Whether or not Capcom implemented something to compensate is the question, not whether the game's values are given in frames which would otherwise be effected by framerate which was assumed by the devs at the time of development to be 30fps.

Or are you getting at something else?

[Guh~hey~hey~♫]

I think that it doesnt affect it. For a simple reason: skills are mesured in frames, but the refresh rate is in frame per second. That makes a whole difference...

Though in some games, the frame rate can affect the speed at which Ai react (if the Ai has been coded in accordance with the frame rate), making ennemies more agressives...

[Asphe]

If the game has a 60 fps frame rate... that means it's displaying 60 frames per second... it doesn't mean it has an impact on things like i-frames. The problem is that the term 'frame' is used in both cases.

It's just easier to refer to a set of animation as a set of frames, i.e. perhaps there are 24 distinct poses or 'frames', of which if the avatar is doing some of those frames, it's "invulnerable", hence i-frames. If the game has those 24 frames last 24s (doesn't mean each frame lasts exactly 1 second neither), then it'll last 24s. No matter what your display frame rate is. Unless you work for Bethseda.

i.e. "adding i-frames" basically means either setting more of the 'frames' to be "invulnerable" or similar.

-----

Playing at a higher frame rate doesn't seem to affect your % of doing a perfect block in DDDA. You just have to practice a bit more... get use to the 'flow' of the animation. Once you get the hang of it, that augment helps.

It's a bit less forgiving in DDDA than in say, MHW for sure ^_^.

[Grr. [SG CMD] Majah Lazah]

Capcom usually makes games without delta timing because it's not often that Capcom cares about PC. When they do make PC centric or specific games, delta timing is usually a thing and this frame rate doesn't matter.

This game and monster hunter use delta timing, so iframes are not actually frames but guaranteed immunity phases and attack/defend/mechanic windows are universal for all players regardless of system.

[zadymek]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

The actual parameters given for a number of abilities are specified in frames. It's not just people saying it. It's right there in the game files.

Oh, really. Got any links to those results of digging in game files? I know someone claimed to dig out certain hidden stats like Blocking ability, but I never actually saw the research itself.

[Briggs]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zadymek:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

The actual parameters given for a number of abilities are specified in frames. It's not just people saying it. It's right there in the game files.

Oh, really. Got any links to those results of digging in game files? I know someone claimed to dig out certain hidden stats like Blocking ability, but I never actually saw the research itself.

<f32 name="justGuardFrameAdd" value="10.0000000000"/>
<f32 name="dieFrame" value="390.0000000000"/>

The first adds 10 "frames" to the perfect block window and the later specifies the duration in frames. Effectively, however, it would seem from the replies I've gotten that they instead add 1/3 of a second and the later lasts 13 seconds.

Those are taken from my own files which I use for modding. I didn't bother checking to see which shield ability I took that from, but the later is from Magic Cannon.

[zadymek]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

Those are taken from my own files which I use for modding. I didn't bother checking to see which shield ability I took that from, but the later is from Magic Cannon.

Well, clearly the skill durations didin't change from 30fps to 60fps. I suppose if these values would be consistently used across the game files there had to be some scaling involved.

BTW Which files have these and what do you use to open them? Maybe I could dig me some level requirements data? Or some hidden resistances.

[Briggs]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zadymek:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

Those are taken from my own files which I use for modding. I didn't bother checking to see which shield ability I took that from, but the later is from Magic Cannon.

Well, clearly the skill durations didin't change from 30fps to 60fps. I suppose if these values would be consistently used across the game files there had to be some scaling involved.

BTW Which files have these and what do you use to open them? Maybe I could dig me some level requirements data? Or some hidden resistances.

Mhmm. As I said above, I'm guessing Capcom has something in the game's executable to convert them from one to the other. Easier to do that than to change the engine probably. It also could just be a relic from another game. It seems as if Capcom uses the same engine for all their recent games (at least since DMC4). Its reasonable that that names stayed the same after the internal workings changed.

As for which files, you have to extract stuff from the .arc files. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=601818667 for more info on that. In particular those were bld.arc and mac.arc respectively.

[zadymek]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Krovoc:

As for which files, you have to extract stuff from the .arc files. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=601818667 for more info on that. In particular those were bld.arc and mac.arc respectively.

Great. I'll take a look at it on weekend.
Thanks.

[Scarebear]

Here is a write up on "Delta timing", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_timing

From my testing DD:AA uses delta timing.

I had the same concern as you when i picked up this game knowing it was targeting 30 fps in the original release.

Even though console games target known hardware, the performance still varies from scene to scene in many games so not implementing delta timing is very stupid.

Unfortunately many Japanese developers from the time did not implement delta timing.