Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

View Stats:
McGuffin Dec 31, 2016 @ 6:39pm
savan vs. grigorij
if an arisen that defeats the dragon is to face the seneshal and defeats him to become a new one which savan did, why is grigorij still around
< >
Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
DarkFenix Dec 31, 2016 @ 6:48pm 
Savan was the last arisen to beat the Seneschal and take his place. Grigori was a later arisen who defeated the dragon of his time, then failed to defeat Savan so was turned into the next dragon. There's a 'bad ending' (allows you to reload as with dying normally) where in being defeated by Savan yourself you become the next dragon.
Last edited by DarkFenix; Dec 31, 2016 @ 6:49pm
McGuffin Dec 31, 2016 @ 6:52pm 
you meet grigorij before savan becomes the seneshal
DrHitman27 Dec 31, 2016 @ 7:02pm 
It is another dragon, his words is like "claim the mastery over the eternal ring" while Grigori never reveal truth.
McGuffin Dec 31, 2016 @ 7:11pm 
its still the smae voice, all the other dragons are dffrerent before. seems like a plothole to me
McGuffin Dec 31, 2016 @ 7:12pm 
also your the only person active on this forums i see, i remember you from lke 1 year ago
Proconsul Dec 31, 2016 @ 11:47pm 
Originally posted by Hugh Mungus:
you meet grigorij before savan becomes the seneshal

No. Recall the opening scene, from before you create your character. It is countless lifetimes ago, according to the captioning. In it, you are playing Savan as he goes to meet whomever was dragon in his time. Though you only take him as far as the chimera, he presumably goes on to defeat that dragon and then the seneschal of that time to become seneschal himself.

In between that time and your time, there are at least 2 other Arisen who defeat the dragon who called them but fail to defeat the seneschal, Savan.

The first of these has her tale told in the story of BBI and Daimon - she was the Arisen who took in Daimon as a child. She later leaves him to go face the dragon and Daimon doesn't see her until years later, when she comes back as a dragon herself and claims his heart, making him an Arisen. That is because she defeated her dragon but was then in turn defeated by Savan. Daimon, being a childish dolt, refuses to fight her and throws a tantrum, cursing all existence, so she takes that tantrum as his choice, turns him into the monster form and places him on Bitterblack Isle, claiming the life of his love (her own former pawn) as the price of the deal.

The other is of course Grigori himself. We don't know if Grigori defeated her or someone else did and Grigori came along much later. There may have been others, perhaps many others, but these are the only two we are told about.

The dragon's voice is similar to Grigori's, true, but that is just matter of only having hired two voice actors to play dragons, one male and one female (in Dark Arisen content). Listen to the drake or any other dragonkin - all the same voice actor.
Last edited by Proconsul; Dec 31, 2016 @ 11:48pm
McGuffin Jan 1, 2017 @ 3:06pm 
i see
Proconsul Jan 1, 2017 @ 3:22pm 
The thing that interests me most about this cycle is not what happens to Arisen who defeat the dragon, or those like the Dragonforged and the Duke who strike a deal with the dragon. No, what interests me is Barroch, an Arisen who sidesteps the cycle entirely by simply refusing to have anything to do with the dragon.

He just walked away, and in doing so he gets the immortality of the Arisen without any of the price tags like having to make a deadly choice for the dragon, having to fight the dragon, having his immortality taken away when another Arisen defeats the dragon....none of it. He gets off scot-free with immortality as his "consolation prize" by simply saying, "Nope. Not playing, thanks. Keep my heart, do; and thanks for the immortality."
ShinkuTear Jan 1, 2017 @ 4:08pm 
Originally posted by Proconsul:
He just walked away, and in doing so he gets the immortality of the Arisen without any of the price tags like having to make a deadly choice for the dragon, having to fight the dragon, having his immortality taken away when another Arisen defeats the dragon...
Death of a dragon removes the immortality granted to all Arisen that dragon had swiped hearts from. Barroch is just as vulnerable to aging/dying from this as every other Arisen whose Dragon still lives.

Spoiler example: The Dragonforged and Duke Edmun are proof enough of this, they were both tied to Grigori, and their immortality is shown leaving them after you kill the scaly beast, with fairly impressive results.
Proconsul Jan 1, 2017 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by ShinkuTear:
Death of a dragon removes the immortality granted to all Arisen that dragon had swiped hearts from. Barroch is just as vulnerable to aging/dying from this as every other Arisen whose Dragon still lives.

Barroch himself is living proof that this is not the case, as he survives the death of Grigori unchanged.

Presumably it is because he never struck a deal with the dragon, as the Dragonforged and Duke both did. In fact, for all we know it may not even be Grigori who took his heart in the first place but rather an earlier dragon, since we have no way of knowing how old he is or even how long he has been on Bitterblack Isle. All we can know for sure is that Barroch is older than the Duke, since the Duke was the Arisen during the cycle immediately prior to the current one. That means Barroch had to have been made Arisen during a previous cycle. So if he were not immune, then would have either died like the Dragonforged or at least aged to a much more wizened form than the Duke, once Grigori died at the end of the Final Battle quest.

And since the only way new dragons come to be is by having defeated the one before them, then there is zero chance that Barroch survived because his heart just happens to be in some prior dragon. All those prior dragons are already dead when the story begins.
Last edited by Proconsul; Jan 1, 2017 @ 4:36pm
Martin Jan 2, 2017 @ 9:19am 
I just figured the name Grigori[en.wikipedia.org] is more of a title.
Last edited by Martin; Jan 2, 2017 @ 9:20am
Proconsul Jan 2, 2017 @ 10:35am 
I suppose it might be, but it's hard to see why that would be so. After all, there is only the one "Dragon" in the Arisen cycle, so why would it need a title on top of that? And why would nobody ever use it except the dragon himself? Remember also that many names have roots in ancient languages, so we cannot assume they are titles without a little more to go on. Or I would think so anyway.
McGuffin Jan 2, 2017 @ 12:04pm 
girogorij is a common russian name tbh.
japanese are quite fond of giving russian names to european Characters
cdarklock Jan 2, 2017 @ 12:28pm 
Originally posted by Proconsul:
He just walked away, and in doing so he gets the immortality of the Arisen without any of the price tags

Plus, pawns clearly have uses outside of combat and adventuring that the game just plain doesn't talk about. I mean... look at how they're DRESSED. We may not have game mechanics for that particular aspect of things, but it's pretty obvious what an awful lot of Arisen would be doing with them.
Proconsul Jan 2, 2017 @ 1:43pm 
Originally posted by Le Désir de Vivre:
So if they were from the same world, and Grigori comes far later in the timeline, then the curse would've been broken because the Dragoness (Grette) is dead.

Just a tiny bit of nitpicking of what was otherwise a good analysis. This bit here doesn't necessarily follow. It isn't the death of Grette that breaks his curse. It's the death of Daimon. Grette may have died centuries ago for all we know, but as long as Daimon remained undefeated, Ashe would remain trapped. In like manner Grette was trapped in her dragon form, hoping an Arisen would free her. It's why she chose Ashe as her first Arisen after becoming a dragon after all, because she hoped he would mercifully kill her to free her from that fate. But whether she was later freed or not would not, I think, have freed Ashe, once he became enslaved within Daimon. If that were the way of it, then DragonGrette should have been the final boss you had to defeat in order to free Ashe, not Daimon.

On another note, it is interesting to speculate on whether there is one Dragon for all worlds, just as there is one Seneschal...or if the Seneschal maintains a separate Dragon for each world. The way a hole in the sky opens and the Dragon kind of falls out of a void into the sky of Gransys implies it is perhaps one Dragon for all worlds. And when an Arisen cuts a deal, like Duke Edmun Dragonstool did, perhaps the Dragon just pops off to another world to pick another Arisen and try again to find one with the will to fight and win, hence the 50 year gap before anyone in this world hears anything about the Dragon again. If that is the case, then perhaps the cycle is truly broken, or at least stalled, when the player stabs himself with the Godsbane right after offing the previous Seneschal with it.

Or perhaps, if there is a separate Dragon for every world, then that was merely a dodge and didn't ultimately break the cycle at all, since other Dragon's are out there still choosing Arisen on other worlds. The next one to defeat his world's Dragon would presumably just walk in unopposed as the next Seneschal. Boy will he or she be confused for a while, with nobody to explain their new job description.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Dec 31, 2016 @ 6:39pm
Posts: 20