The Berry: King of food, or at least not as bad as you think.

[Siri/Alex]

So I've done a lot of searching for trying to optimize food production in a number of my games. I'll search up info on what the optimal number of wheat grinders and bakers are to wheat fields (2 grinders and 1 baker for every 6 fields) and how many other colonists will these fields effectively feed before I need to build more? If you go with the above grouping, each field will net you a whopping 52.5 food profit per day when you account for all of the food workers also eat.


But what about berries? I've noticed not a lot of people really give much thought to these and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we can't really look at the numbers behind them. What we -can- do however is do some testing to see just what sort of return these can give to see just how they stack up.

Firstly, we're only going to be using the same field size constraints as a wheat patch. However berry patches can't be made in a 10x10, so what we do, is situate three different berry patches, 2 5x7 patches and a 3x10. When properly configured, it will look something like this https://i.imgur.com/cfNXy9Z.png

From there, all we really have to do is wait and compile results to see if there are any trends. Luckily, I've already done that. Below are results for a number of different tests. 5x7 patches alone, Two 5x7 patches, and then the two patches plus the 3x10.

Day 1 test. (1) 5x7 patch = 40 berry gain = 24 food or 19 food surplus.
Day 2 test (1) 5x7 patch = 42 berry gain = 25.2 food or 20.2 surplus
Day 3 test (2) 5x7 patches = 87 berry gain = 52.2 food or 42.2 surplus

Day 4 test (2) 5x7 patches = 117 berry gain = 70.2 food or 55.2 surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

Day 5 test (2) 5x7 patches = 115 berry gain = 69 food or 54 surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

(At this point I began to suspect they were eating the berries instead of the bread as bread had not decreased for over a day and i had seen the berry number drop by 10 between countings, so i removed the bread to calculate straight food changes from berries alone). So from here on, I will not be subtracting 15 (daily food consumption) from the food generated as they'll have actively eaten it without need for extra calculations.

Day 6 test (2) 5x7 patches = 103 berry gain = 61.8 food surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

Day 7 test (2) 5x7 patches = 115 berry gain = 69 food surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

Day 8 test (2) 5x7 patches = 100 berry gain = 60 food surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

Day 9 test (2) 5x7 patches = 100 berry gain = 60 food surplus
(1) 3x10 patch =

Additional testing from there mirrored the above results with a few days having a bit higher yield for some reason, but on average, berries actually managed to produce more food than wheat fields, yielding a 12%-14% increase.

That isn't to say that berry fields are hands-down better than wheat, however, asthere are some drawbacks. If you take the wheat field model above as an example, you have a total of 9 workers that generate a profit of 315 food per day, using the same space as those 6 wheat fields however and you require 18 berry farmers, and while they generate 360 food surplus per day, they do require twice the workers thus pitting you against a somewhat more dangerous horde night. But if defense isn't a concern and you need what precious space you have available, maybe think about ditching a wheat field or so for some berries.

[Pipliznl]

Thanks for doing the tests and calculations! :D A lot of people hate berry farming and go to wheat farming as quick as possible, but we haven't added berry farmers to be totally useless :)

[DragonCrimes]

I like the berry farmers , quick food for the beginning and you need less space

[Abagnatius]

I always have berry farmers, even in 150+ people colonies. They provide a steady source of food and some variety as well. Pip, it might be an idea for you to add some way to make having as many different kinds of food attractive like a global speed buff that gives 1% more speed per kind of food in the stockpile or something like that?

[SK]

Hey its me Masterjohn :D

[Vuld_Edone]

What you are calculating is food produced per space taken. But space, from my experience at least, should never be a worry.
It's especially true in the current build where you can simply put your flag 4-500 blocks away from your colony and never worry about walls, aka space (I tested that those past couple days). Even without that, my 100 colony was using less than 100x100 and I had already six times that walled for expansion. Next build promises us colonists who will cut wood and maybe dig for us, at which point we could make 20 underground levels of farms, let alone building sky gardens. I don't know if it's multiplayer or pure aesthescism but again, from my experience, space should never, ever be a variable.

So with that said, I tested:
(a) 1 colonist with 1 48 (6x8) berry field
(b) 6 colonists with 6 48 (6x8) berry fields
(c) 6 colonists with 4 100 (10x10) wheat fields
Each time putting the beds and crates against the fields, counting the production over three days and discounting the first day (setting up for berries, baking for wheat), so days 2-4.
Also 6 because I was stupid and meant to do 8 and when I finally figured out I was doing it wrong I was already mid-experiment.

a)
day2 : 415.2 > 436.2
day3 : 436.2 > 456.6
day4 : 478.8 > 475.8
food/day : ~21

b)
day2 : 100.2 > 222
day3 : 222 > 350.4
day4 : 350.4 > 478.2
food/day : ~126

c)
day2 : 412.2 > 376.2
day3 : 376.2 > 665.8
day4: 665.8 > 805.2
food/day : ~131

About wheat:
- each field produces 100 wheat
- the grinder takes 12 wheat at a time and takes 6 cycles to then put 12 flour back in the crate.
- the baker takes 15 wheat at a time and takes 3 cycles to then put 5 breads back in the crate.
From this, one field equals to ~33 breads, or ~99 food.
- also the oven needs firewood so, yeah, I forgot that in the equation.

It's likely that I stopped the test too short. Another three days would likely show a steady production for wheat fields, as they would be ready for harvest. Over two days (days 3-4) the production would probably shoot up at 214.5 food/pay, leaving berries into the dust. As a side note yes, my baker got to bake the last bread just as the second day ended.

Finally, two remarks:
1) Food production from berry fields varies most likely because colonists harvest a random number of bushes before going back to the crate (from 3 to 8 as I witnessed). Shorter trips mean of course lost productivity. Each bush seems to give ~0.75 food, but that would need better testing.
2) Food consumption is hard to pinpoint. It's not "5 per colonist at dawn", and it doesn't seem linked to when you hired the colonists either. I hired them all at the same time and still, while waiting for wheat to grow I noticed small declines of ~2.5-3 food throughout the day. It was especially noticeable during phase (a) where the single colonist, at dawn, would take 3 food. Overall all food costs are questionable.

Anyway, tl;dr, wheat is far better (space is not a variable) and it all needs more testing.

[Pipliznl]

Originally posted by The Wide Stone:

Pip, it might be an idea for you to add some way to make having as many different kinds of food attractive

The new biomes will add new kinds of food, just like the animal husbandry update. We want to add a cook that can make more nutritious meals by combining ingredients :)

[Smemegod]

You guys can check out the colony survival wiki for these exact numbers, I've added them under the "Wheat farmer" and "Berry farmer" tab. So heres the TL;DR:

12 Berry farmers (assuming you use two 5×10 to cover the same space as a wheat field) will produce 41 berries each day, or a grand total of 24.6 food. They each consume 5 so each produces a net value of 19.6 food. 12 farmers produces roughly 235 food a day.

On the other hand, 6 wheat farmers, 2 Millers and 1 baker will produce 720 food every 2 days (each farm produces 40 bread, worth 120 food). They each consume 5 meaning you lose 90 over the two days. That leaves us with 630. Divide that by two and they still are producing 315 per day, nearly a time and a half as much for fewer colonists. Berry farms aren't useless, and I always have a few around. But wheat is still more efficient.

[Vuld_Edone]

I have pushed my test a bit further. First with more days with 6 colonists (4 farmers, 1 miller, 1 baker):

day5 : 824.2 > 1103.2
day6 : 1094.2 > 1294.6
day7 : 1276.6 > 1559.8
day8 : 1550.8 > 1711.6
day9 : 1702.6 > 1967.4
day10: 1962.8 > 2128.6
food/day : ~215

Then with 9 colonists (6 farmers, 2 millers, 1 baker):

day2 : 2182.2 > 2365.6
day3 : 2347.6 > 2590.2
day4 : 2572.2 > 2851.6
day5 : 2833.6 > 3112.2
day6 : ? > 3373.6
day7 : 3355.6 > 3634.2
food/day : ~278

This is obviously more productive as the baker works non-stop. But it also accumulates flour (+450 around day 7). So, having a constant ~278 food per day gain I decided to change things up and try 5 farmers, 1 miller, 1 baker (and 2 unemployed, no way to kill them).

day8 : 3616.2 > 3895.6
day9 : ? > 4240.6
day10: 4222.6 > 4435.6
day11: 4435.6 > 4762.6
food/day : ~278

Technically 291 but you can bet day12 would have lowered that number. The number can go up to 345 in a single day, which is simply the wheat itself being stored. It evens out in the long run.
I cannot assure that flour production would be enough though, as the stocks fell to 272 by day 12. It should be tested further, but as long as the miller has wheat to grind, the baker should have a non-stop production -- it was the case with 4/1/1.
But even if there was a slight production loss, of let's say 20 food/day, that's still 2 less colonists for that result. 260 food with 7 colonists is 37/colonist. 280 food with 9 is 31/colonist. In a game where colonists have a real impact (contrary to space), this should be the mother metric.

Finally, I quickly tested for a day and yup, food fell from 4748.2 to 4703.2 over a day (from dawn to dawn) with 9 colonists, or 45 food consumption. The consumption seems constant throughout the day.

I didn't test 8-9 berry farmers over 7 days because the result is predictable, at ~189 food/day.

[Siri/Alex]

Originally posted by The Dragon Whisperer:

You guys can check out the colony survival wiki for these exact numbers, I've added them under the "Wheat farmer" and "Berry farmer" tab. So heres the TL;DR:

12 Berry farmers (assuming you use two 5×10 to cover the same space as a wheat field) will produce 41 berries each day, or a grand total of 24.6 food. They each consume 5 so each produces a net value of 19.6 food. 12 farmers produces roughly 235 food a day.

On the other hand, 6 wheat farmers, 2 Millers and 1 baker will produce 720 food every 2 days (each farm produces 40 bread, worth 120 food). They each consume 5 meaning you lose 90 over the two days. That leaves us with 630. Divide that by two and they still are producing 315 per day, nearly a time and a half as much for fewer colonists. Berry farms aren't useless, and I always have a few around. But wheat is still more efficient.

Not to pick at this though, but either that information is outdated on berry farms or you're using a different build. I can say with the current version of Colonist Survival that it is not possible to make a 5x10 berry farm (i've tried 5x10, 10x5, going north, south, east, or west, doesn't matter) the largest you can make is a 5x8 (which doesn't give any more bushes than 5x7 at 12 bushes). Further, Two 5x7 bushes plus a 3x10 yields about 100 berries surplus every day, not 40. Which is more than double the amount of berries you propose. 100 berries x 0.6 = 60 food surplus every day. Multiply that by the same 6 fields and you have a 360 food surplus for the same space however you need 2x the amount of workers for every 6 fields replaced.

[Caz]

I always just keep a handful of berry farms at all times. Over time, it builds up, and if I screw something up during a major redesign, I've got a buffer before all my colonists keel over.

[Zun]

Did any of you test berry farm size relative to productivity?

[Vuld_Edone]

Well... I just did test 6 berry fields on 25 (5x5) each, with a population of 6 colonists total. Some beds weren't optimally placed but I was lazy. Also, I tested only one day (day2).
day2 : 2758.2 > 2899.8
That's a 141.6 production (from dawn to dusk) or 23.6 per colonist.

With a 6x8 field, the expected production is 21 food/day. It's a bit surprising to get 23 food/day on 5x5. But it actually makes sense.
First, the number of bushes doesn't matter: you would expect bushes to have a cooldown before being exploitable again but that's not the case, so in that sense two bushes would be enough, if not just one. Second, the travel time might actually be shorter in a smaller field. Random trips can be shorter on average, making for higher productivity.
Oh and for added bonus, 5x5 being the minimum means 4 berry fields for 1 wheat field. For those who still care about space.

I don't feel the need to test on more days. At a minimum, a smaller berry field yields the same amount. But it might actually have an edge.

EDIT: Last test. 13 colonists (I didn't bother dismissing my berry fields), 5 farmers, 1 miller, 1 baker. I started at 0 wheat, 0 flour, to see if the production would be optimal (aka if the baker would bake non-stop).
The answer is yes. The miller stops at 2/3rd of the second day (after the harvest) but the baker keeps going until the end (with 12 flour left). So all else equal:
1) Never have more millers than bakers.
2) 1 baker for 5 wheat fields.
I'm not sure why the 6/2/1 came to be, maybe an earlier version, maybe a different behavior for gigantic colonies...