Perks

[Psycho Dad]

how many perks do you get in total? and honestly which ones are 100% a must for heavy melee tanks and sharpshooters....I use the militia start ALWAYS so i take 16 into battle with .

[turtle225]

You get 10 perks by level 11 and then it stops. Stat gains after level 11 also go down to only +1s per level, so your bro is essentially complete at level 11.

Must perks for a true heavy tank imo would be Forge, Indom, Recover, Underdog, and Shield Expert. Plenty of other good perks too but I would consider those the basis for a proper tank.

For a sharpshooter you would have to be more specific. I don't think pure archers are particularly good, especially in Militia where you can't get Hunters.

[UnluckyNoob]

Must have heavy melee tank perks are(in order form most important to least important):
1. Underdog
2-3. Indomitable + recover
4. Battle forged
5. Shield mastery
6. Lone wolf.

Lone wolf may seems debatable so I'll explain. If your tank fight out of formation lone wolf is obvious pick. If your tank stays with other bros you most likely do not need tank in that fight at all.

With militia origin you may easily field 2 tanks. In big fights against barbs even 3 tanks may be profitable.

I usually use this build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3051364848

Use my archer guide to learn about perks and tactic. With militia origin bow <-> crossbow balance is shifted towards crossbow, so I recommend 1 bow (in the middle) for range superiority and 2 crossbows (on flanks) for dealing main damage. Defence is very important for crossbow users so look for poachers with 2 attack/1 defence stars or better(start with what bros you get and replace them later).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2801094137

[Psycho Dad]

Originally posted by turtle225:

You get 10 perks by level 11 and then it stops. Stat gains after level 11 also go down to only +1s per level, so your bro is essentially complete at level 11.

Must perks for a true heavy tank imo would be Forge, Indom, Recover, Underdog, and Shield Expert. Plenty of other good perks too but I would consider those the basis for a proper tank.

For a sharpshooter you would have to be more specific. I don't think pure archers are particularly good, especially in Militia where you can't get Hunters.

Thanks! I have 4 bros with xbows...and was <thinking> of putting cannon on them then switching when enemies get into close range.

[Psycho Dad]

Originally posted by UnluckyNoob:

Must have heavy melee tank perks are(in order form most important to least important):
1. Underdog
2-3. Indomitable + recover
4. Battle forged
5. Shield mastery
6. Lone wolf.

Lone wolf may seems debatable so I'll explain. If your tank fight out of formation lone wolf is obvious pick. If your tank stays with other bros you most likely do not need tank in that fight at all.

With militia origin you may easily field 2 tanks. In big fights against barbs even 3 tanks may be profitable.

I usually use this build:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3051364848

Use my archer guide to learn about perks and tactic. With militia origin bow <-> crossbow balance is shifted towards crossbow, so I recommend 1 bow (in the middle) for range superiority and 2 crossbows (on flanks) for dealing main damage. Defence is very important for crossbow users so look for poachers with 2 attack/1 defence stars or better(start with what bros you get and replace them later).
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2801094137

Thanks for this...seems like stats are huge too...guess only other real question is..

what att score is MIN for best hit chance?...I have a bro with 79 ATT and he misses like 4 out of 6 swings...against other humans..its unreal...not sure why hes missing so much...its a 70ish chance when I scroll over best one to attack.

[Gilius Thunderhead]

80 is good
90 is great
100 is godly

[UnluckyNoob]

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

Thanks for this...seems like stats are huge too...guess only other real question is..

what att score is MIN for best hit chance?...I have a bro with 79 ATT and he misses like 4 out of 6 swings...against other humans..its unreal...not sure why hes missing so much...its a 70ish chance when I scroll over best one to attack.

Whenever you hit or miss is decided by random. Higher attack increase probability of hit and greatly reduce probability of multiple misses in a short amount of time.

In your case chance to hit 2 times out of 6 with 70% hit chance is
15 * 0.7^2 * 0.3^4 = 0.059535 ~= 6%

With 10 more melee skill(i.e. 80% single hit chance) it will be
15 * 0.8^2 * 0.2^4 = 0.01536 ~= 1,5%
or roughly 4 times less.
Math details[www.cuemath.com]

Note that if you play defensively you will not rely that much on hitting every time.

Now about melee attack score. Good attack for lvl 11 peasant origin bro will be 85 (above average base with 2 stars or below average base with 3 stars). Great attack will be 90(that's 55 base with 3 stars). Anything over 90 is godlike.

Your recruits are cheap so getting 85 attack bro is really easy. There is 3/8 chance of getting star(s) in attack stat for most common recruits and 40% chance that it will be 2 or 3 stars(60% - 1, 30% - 2, 10% - 3). So chance of getting 2-3 star melee attack bro is 3/8 * 4/10 = 15%. The problem is bro also need good defence to stay on frontline.

[Psycho Dad]

Originally posted by UnluckyNoob:

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

Thanks for this...seems like stats are huge too...guess only other real question is..

what att score is MIN for best hit chance?...I have a bro with 79 ATT and he misses like 4 out of 6 swings...against other humans..its unreal...not sure why hes missing so much...its a 70ish chance when I scroll over best one to attack.

Whenever you hit or miss is decided by random. Higher attack increase probability of hit and greatly reduce probability of multiple misses in a short amount of time.

In your case chance to hit 2 times out of 6 with 70% hit chance is
15 * 0.7^2 * 0.3^4 = 0.059535 ~= 6%

With 10 more melee skill(i.e. 80% single hit chance) it will be
15 * 0.8^2 * 0.2^4 = 0.01536 ~= 1,5%
or roughly 4 times less.
Math details[www.cuemath.com]

Note that if you play defensively you will not rely that much on hitting every time.

Now about melee attack score. Good attack for lvl 11 peasant origin bro will be 85 (above average base with 2 stars or below average base with 3 stars). Great attack will be 90(that's 55 base with 3 stars). Anything over 90 is godlike.

Your recruits are cheap so getting 85 attack bro is really easy. There is 3/8 chance of getting star(s) in attack stat for most common recruits and 40% chance that it will be 2 or 3 stars(60% - 1, 30% - 2, 10% - 3). So chance of getting 2-3 star melee attack bro is 3/8 * 4/10 = 15%. The problem is bro also need good defence to stay on frontline.

makes sense...I started over...i messed up bad on last play...was level 12 had nice gear 2h swords on my DPS but I didn't have 1 even 1 star in att or Mdef on ANY of my frontline bro ...was kinda sad lol...oh well i enjoy starting over..maybe this will be different now that I have a better understanding of stats/perks...thanks again!

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

Thanks! I have 4 bros with xbows...and was <thinking> of putting cannon on them then switching when enemies get into close range.

You kind of have to commit to either Xbow or Handgonne, it's not very practical to switch mid-combat because you would have to switch the weapon, switch the ammo pouch, and then reload the new weapon. Even with Quick Hands that's not going to work well.

If you wanted a closer range option for Xbows, then picking up Quick Hands, Throwing, and Duelist will give you a lot of close range punch with throwing weapons.

There's not a great way to get a long range option to pair with Handgonne. Usually people will equip two gonnes and then on the first turn switch to and load the second gonne, and then on the second turn when the enemies close in you can do a double volley with the two gonnes.

[Nerdgasm]

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

I have 4 bros with xbows...and was <thinking> of putting cannon on them then switching when enemies get into close range.

You want a handgonne/thrower I think ideally.

Choice perks:
Bags & Belts
Quickhands
Crossbow Mastery
Throwing Mastery

Additional perks:
Overwhelm
Fearsome
Duelist
Nimble
Killing Frenzy
Berserk

Equipment:
Handgonne
Nomad Sling
Throwing Axes
Throwing Javelins
Firelance

Open the fight with the handgonne equipped to preload it. On turn 1, quickhands to a nomad sling and use that for the first couple turns. On turn 2-3 quickhands to either throwing axes or javelins. Keep using throwing weapons until the enemy bunches up into a nice little cluster, then switch to the handgonne. Keep firing handgonne or switch back to throwing weapons for the remainder of the fight. The sling functions as a sort of analogue for the crossbow, since you can't equip a crossbow and handgonne in the same fight, but with the sling you can still hit enemies 6 tiles away, and the nomad sling's actually half decent and not just a meme weapon. The firelance special ability scales based on ranged attack, so it's a very good choice to have as a melee weapon just in case.

[Estieukua]

I'm reluctant to say that any perks are a "must" for "heavy melee tanks". I'm also reluctant to say that a "melee tank" should be "heavy", and I find it difficult to draw a clear line between a "tank" and another character who plays a protective/guarding role without necessarily being a "tank".

Strictly speaking, there's only one fight in the game (the Monolith) in which a "melee tank" is (probably) a necessity, and you don't have to do that fight nor judge/build/utilize your entire company from day 1 around the prospect of doing it.

On the other hand, just because a "melee tank" isn't necessarily necessary for the vast majority of fights, that doesn't mean that such a character (or a similar overlapping one) can't still be very useful in many fights. Depending on the overall composition/synergy of your company, one or more "melee tanks" (or similar characters playing a similar protective/guarding role) could be vital in many fights (or not needed at all).

Variables to consider:

(1) do you insist on only using melee fighters who have high talent for both melee skill and melee defence, or are you perfectly happy to use anyone with high melee talent (while maintaining a take-it-or-leave-it attitude towards defence)?

(2) does your company/formation generally need protection (i.e. someone to stand in the way) against severe threats to resolve/morale (e.g. priests/geists/warlords/witches/alps or just being swarmed by masses of enemies at once - especially enemies with the Fearsome perk)?

(3) does your formation require protection in the form of someone deliberately engaging lots of enemies - or in the form of someone using fatigue-intensive skills (e.g. Spearwall) to keep enemies away (or either or a mixture of both)?

In variable (1), a boring realpolitik company of high-attack, high-defence "frontline 2-handers" might not need a "melee tank" at all. On the other hand, maxing both attack and defence on almost everyone will make it harder to have a high level of HPs and resolve on everyone, which in turn may leave them vulnerable to slipping morale/resolve (as in variable 2) and/or debilitating injuries from unlucky hits when swarmed by masses of enemies at once - so that it's still often desirable to have some sort of protective character standing in the way and limiting the rate of enemy engagement. If, in variable (1), you only max attack on your damage-dealers (being happy to take only +3s and maybe some +2s for defence), you'll have more room to give everyone decent/high HPs and resolve and won't be as vulnerable to spooking (as in variable 2) or to injuries from big hits, but you'll still be likely to get hit more often if you allow masses of enemies to swarm you, and some sort of protective character will therefore be needed to stand in the way in some fights.

In variable (3), needing/wanting a character who deliberately engages lots of enemies at once means you need/want a "melee tank" (heavy or not) who maxes melee defence and probably carries a shield and definitely has the Underdog perk.

On the other hand, you could instead have characters who use Spearwall to limit the rate of enemy engagement and prevent the rest of the formation from getting swarmed (allowing them to focus on attack). A Spearwaller could have high defence and could carry a shield and could be given the Underdog and Shield Expert perks (thus being a "melee tank" who uses a spear), but could instead be a more attack-oriented character with Duelist and Quick Hands, or a utilitarian jack-of-all-trades with decent attack, defence defence and high levels of HPs, resolve and fatigue, able to use Indomitable and arm with a large shield when the wall is breached (thus not a "melee tank" as such, but still a situational makeshift tank who provides similar protection to the formation).

Another possibility, if you have a lot of fatigue-neutral 2-handers with decent/high defence, high HPs, high resolve and the Underdog perk, is to let them all carry large shields in their pockets (ideally with the Shield Expert perk, if you can find room for it), so that any one of them (as and when required by the situation) can become a makeshift "melee tank".

Something to consider is that a dedicated lone "melee tank" with no melee weapon is the most judicious choice with regards to doing the fight(s) in which such a tank is (probably) strictly necessary, but that more makeshift tanks who use a variety of skills are more fun to use/build in the game generally.

Should a "melee tank" be "heavy"? Really, the tank could wear the heaviest armour available or have the Nimble perk, and (so long as defence is high enough, HPs and resolve not too poor, and luck not too rotten) be totally fine either way. Heavy armour with Battle-Forged is a little more effective against the enemy faced in the one fight (the Monolith) in which a tank is (probably) essential, but there are other fights in which a tank is likely to be useful and in which Nimble will offer much better protection against sudden debilitating injuries: e.g. possessed fallen heroes (especially champion ones) using 2H weapons (while you're also being mass-spooked by geists), orc berserkers using 2H orc weapons (especially berserk-chain flails), and barbarian chosen using hammers or maces. In the fights in which Nimble is better, it could also be argued that Steel Brow and/or Nine Lives offers better security than Battle-Forged for a heavily-armoured tank.

Do you want a "melee tank" to use a lot of fatigue-intensive skills or be relatively fatigue-neutral? If you do want to use lots of fatiguing skills (e.g. Shieldwall, Spearwall, Knock Back, Indomitable, Rotation), you'll need a decent/high pool of fatigue and probably the Recover perk as well (and probably Pathfinder to allow you to move to the desired spot before using the relevant skill on awkward terrain, especially in the case of Spearwall). Nimble always allows a decent pool of fatigue without even needing to level it, and Brawny increases the pool of fatigue on a heavy build (but you'd probably still need to level it a bit). If you don't want to use lots of fatiguing skills, you won't need to go Nimble or pick Brawny, but Nimble would still offer better intrinsic protection against injuries from big hits, and a heavy build wouldn't be able to pick Indomitable. If you go Nimble despite not wishing to use lots of fatigue-intensive skills, you also have the possibility of giving the character decent/high initiative and the Dodge perk (and maybe Relentless and Overwhelm as well) to further boost defences.

Note that, with a rare shield with -1/-2/-3 fatigue per skill use, and with a character with Iron Lungs or high on a Second-Wind Potion, the character will always be able to use Shieldwall on every turn. If you only want a tank for one or two big fights, it's likely that you'll be able to do this by the time you're ready for the fight(s).

Do you want your "melee tank" to stick close to the formation or move off and divert lots of enemies away? If you want a lone tank to move away from the formation, defence and resolve will need to be higher for effectiveness than they would otherwise, and the Lone Wolf perk becomes a no-brainer. On the other hand, if sticking to the edges of the formation, and especially if you have lots of damage-dealers with modest defence values, Taunt is a very effective perk choice, since it can be used to take big hits away from allies who are much easier to hit (leaving them free to focus on killing things), and/or to prevent shield-using enemies from using Shieldwall, and/or to prevent threatening enemies from trying to break free from nets.

Essential Perks on a "Melee Tank" (or a Makeshift Tank)

-- basal: nothing, speaking strictly (but it's never a bad idea to take Colossus as the first perk on any character)

-- deliberately engaging lots of enemies: Underdog

-- always/usually intending to be armed with a shield: Shield Expert (and maybe Bags&Belts to allow spare shields)

-- often/sometimes moving away from the formation to draw off lots of enemies: Lone Wolf (and maybe Fortified Mind)

-- guarding vulnerable points of the formation using Spearwall: Spear Mastery (and probably Pathfinder to allow adequate movement over awkward terrain)

-- diverting attacks away from more vulnerable allies (and/or making it easier for them to engage/attack/hit enemies without coming under such heavy attack themselves): Taunt and/or Rotation

-- standing in front of the formation to protect the rest against mental attacks and/or negative status effects: Fortified Mind (and maybe Resilient to shake off Cursed/Charmed etc.)

-- needing a decent/high pool of fatigue for fatigue-intensive skills: Nimble (in light armour) or Brawny (in heavy armour), and any fatigue-intensive perk you wish to use (e.g. Indomitable), and probably Pathfinder (so that awkward terrain doesn't prevent you from moving to the desired spot before using the skills), and maybe Bags&Belts (if you want to carry spare shields or other items)

-- wanting to keep using fatigue-intensive skills (without relying on magic shields, drugs, Iron Lungs and/or cultist traits for one-off battles): Recover (and maybe Resilient to shake off Daze)

-- primarily wanting protection against debilitating injuries from big-hitting enemies (e.g. chosen, schrats, ifrits, orc berserkers): Nimble (and probably Colossus to maximize its effectiveness), and/or Indomitable (if you have the fatigue and can keep using it a lot)

-- primarily wanting protection against swarms of enemies using weapons with decent/high raw damage, decent/high armour effectiveness and modest direct damage (e.g. ancient dead, orc warriors): Battle-Forged

-- wanting additional security against sudden death and/or debilitating injuries and/or negative status effects: Nine Lives and/or Steel Brow and/or Resilient (and probably Colossus first)

-- wanting additional defence via initiative, in priority to using lots of fatigue-intensive skills: Dodge, Relentless, Resilient (to shake off Stagger/Daze), and maybe Overwhelm (if you're going to bother using melee attacks at all)

-- wanting to offer some attacking and/or utilitarian capabilities, instead of just being a boring defence-bot: Duelist, Quick Hands (maybe Bags&Belts for extra weapons/shields/nets, or Berserk for kill-Recover, or Adrenaline to catch enemy ranged units)

[How TF did I write all that crap ^^^]

[A5G_Reaper]

Originally posted by turtle225:

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

Thanks! I have 4 bros with xbows...and was <thinking> of putting cannon on them then switching when enemies get into close range.

You kind of have to commit to either Xbow or Handgonne, it's not very practical to switch mid-combat because you would have to switch the weapon, switch the ammo pouch, and then reload the new weapon. Even with Quick Hands that's not going to work well.

If you wanted a closer range option for Xbows, then picking up Quick Hands, Throwing, and Duelist will give you a lot of close range punch with throwing weapons.

There's not a great way to get a long range option to pair with Handgonne. Usually people will equip two gonnes and then on the first turn switch to and load the second gonne, and then on the second turn when the enemies close in you can do a double volley with the two gonnes.

If you dont mind having only a single shot, you could start with a loaded handgonne and have a bolt quiver with bagged crossbow. Switch - load - shoot and then just play normal crossbow until an opportunity for a fat AoE barrage presents itself.

[Psycho Dad]

Thanks for all the advice...I was clearly lacking in understanding....didn't think using the handgonne was so <restrictive>....I guess I might go with my 4 xbowman who havn't fully perked yet....and just be a polearm users and switch to handgonne when they bunch up...can yall tell me if that works? its all about the ammo bag yes? so If i just equip that and have the handgoone in belt I should be able to switch a reach weapon to them and use once fight goes into full melee yes?

[Psycho Dad]

Originally posted by Estieukua:

I'm reluctant to say that any perks are a "must" for "heavy melee tanks". I'm also reluctant to say that a "melee tank" should be "heavy", and I find it difficult to draw a clear line between a "tank" and another character who plays a protective/guarding role without necessarily being a "tank".

Strictly speaking, there's only one fight in the game (the Monolith) in which a "melee tank" is (probably) a necessity, and you don't have to do that fight nor judge/build/utilize your entire company from day 1 around the prospect of doing it.

On the other hand, just because a "melee tank" isn't necessarily necessary for the vast majority of fights, that doesn't mean that such a character (or a similar overlapping one) can't still be very useful in many fights. Depending on the overall composition/synergy of your company, one or more "melee tanks" (or similar characters playing a similar protective/guarding role) could be vital in many fights (or not needed at all).

Variables to consider:

(1) do you insist on only using melee fighters who have high talent for both melee skill and melee defence, or are you perfectly happy to use anyone with high melee talent (while maintaining a take-it-or-leave-it attitude towards defence)?

(2) does your company/formation generally need protection (i.e. someone to stand in the way) against severe threats to resolve/morale (e.g. priests/geists/warlords/witches/alps or just being swarmed by masses of enemies at once - especially enemies with the Fearsome perk)?

(3) does your formation require protection in the form of someone deliberately engaging lots of enemies - or in the form of someone using fatigue-intensive skills (e.g. Spearwall) to keep enemies away (or either or a mixture of both)?

In variable (1), a boring realpolitik company of high-attack, high-defence "frontline 2-handers" might not need a "melee tank" at all. On the other hand, maxing both attack and defence on almost everyone will make it harder to have a high level of HPs and resolve on everyone, which in turn may leave them vulnerable to slipping morale/resolve (as in variable 2) and/or debilitating injuries from unlucky hits when swarmed by masses of enemies at once - so that it's still often desirable to have some sort of protective character standing in the way and limiting the rate of enemy engagement. If, in variable (1), you only max attack on your damage-dealers (being happy to take only +3s and maybe some +2s for defence), you'll have more room to give everyone decent/high HPs and resolve and won't be as vulnerable to spooking (as in variable 2) or to injuries from big hits, but you'll still be likely to get hit more often if you allow masses of enemies to swarm you, and some sort of protective character will therefore be needed to stand in the way in some fights.

In variable (3), needing/wanting a character who deliberately engages lots of enemies at once means you need/want a "melee tank" (heavy or not) who maxes melee defence and probably carries a shield and definitely has the Underdog perk.

On the other hand, you could instead have characters who use Spearwall to limit the rate of enemy engagement and prevent the rest of the formation from getting swarmed (allowing them to focus on attack). A Spearwaller could have high defence and could carry a shield and could be given the Underdog and Shield Expert perks (thus being a "melee tank" who uses a spear), but could instead be a more attack-oriented character with Duelist and Quick Hands, or a utilitarian jack-of-all-trades with decent attack, defence defence and high levels of HPs, resolve and fatigue, able to use Indomitable and arm with a large shield when the wall is breached (thus not a "melee tank" as such, but still a situational makeshift tank who provides similar protection to the formation).

Another possibility, if you have a lot of fatigue-neutral 2-handers with decent/high defence, high HPs, high resolve and the Underdog perk, is to let them all carry large shields in their pockets (ideally with the Shield Expert perk, if you can find room for it), so that any one of them (as and when required by the situation) can become a makeshift "melee tank".

Something to consider is that a dedicated lone "melee tank" with no melee weapon is the most judicious choice with regards to doing the fight(s) in which such a tank is (probably) strictly necessary, but that more makeshift tanks who use a variety of skills are more fun to use/build in the game generally.

Should a "melee tank" be "heavy"? Really, the tank could wear the heaviest armour available or have the Nimble perk, and (so long as defence is high enough, HPs and resolve not too poor, and luck not too rotten) be totally fine either way. Heavy armour with Battle-Forged is a little more effective against the enemy faced in the one fight (the Monolith) in which a tank is (probably) essential, but there are other fights in which a tank is likely to be useful and in which Nimble will offer much better protection against sudden debilitating injuries: e.g. possessed fallen heroes (especially champion ones) using 2H weapons (while you're also being mass-spooked by geists), orc berserkers using 2H orc weapons (especially berserk-chain flails), and barbarian chosen using hammers or maces. In the fights in which Nimble is better, it could also be argued that Steel Brow and/or Nine Lives offers better security than Battle-Forged for a heavily-armoured tank.

Do you want a "melee tank" to use a lot of fatigue-intensive skills or be relatively fatigue-neutral? If you do want to use lots of fatiguing skills (e.g. Shieldwall, Spearwall, Knock Back, Indomitable, Rotation), you'll need a decent/high pool of fatigue and probably the Recover perk as well (and probably Pathfinder to allow you to move to the desired spot before using the relevant skill on awkward terrain, especially in the case of Spearwall). Nimble always allows a decent pool of fatigue without even needing to level it, and Brawny increases the pool of fatigue on a heavy build (but you'd probably still need to level it a bit). If you don't want to use lots of fatiguing skills, you won't need to go Nimble or pick Brawny, but Nimble would still offer better intrinsic protection against injuries from big hits, and a heavy build wouldn't be able to pick Indomitable. If you go Nimble despite not wishing to use lots of fatigue-intensive skills, you also have the possibility of giving the character decent/high initiative and the Dodge perk (and maybe Relentless and Overwhelm as well) to further boost defences.

Note that, with a rare shield with -1/-2/-3 fatigue per skill use, and with a character with Iron Lungs or high on a Second-Wind Potion, the character will always be able to use Shieldwall on every turn. If you only want a tank for one or two big fights, it's likely that you'll be able to do this by the time you're ready for the fight(s).

Do you want your "melee tank" to stick close to the formation or move off and divert lots of enemies away? If you want a lone tank to move away from the formation, defence and resolve will need to be higher for effectiveness than they would otherwise, and the Lone Wolf perk becomes a no-brainer. On the other hand, if sticking to the edges of the formation, and especially if you have lots of damage-dealers with modest defence values, Taunt is a very effective perk choice, since it can be used to take big hits away from allies who are much easier to hit (leaving them free to focus on killing things), and/or to prevent shield-using enemies from using Shieldwall, and/or to prevent threatening enemies from trying to break free from nets.

Essential Perks on a "Melee Tank" (or a Makeshift Tank)

-- basal: nothing, speaking strictly (but it's never a bad idea to take Colossus as the first perk on any character)

-- deliberately engaging lots of enemies: Underdog

-- always/usually intending to be armed with a shield: Shield Expert (and maybe Bags&Belts to allow spare shields)

-- often/sometimes moving away from the formation to draw off lots of enemies: Lone Wolf (and maybe Fortified Mind)

-- guarding vulnerable points of the formation using Spearwall: Spear Mastery (and probably Pathfinder to allow adequate movement over awkward terrain)

-- diverting attacks away from more vulnerable allies (and/or making it easier for them to engage/attack/hit enemies without coming under such heavy attack themselves): Taunt and/or Rotation

-- standing in front of the formation to protect the rest against mental attacks and/or negative status effects: Fortified Mind (and maybe Resilient to shake off Cursed/Charmed etc.)

-- needing a decent/high pool of fatigue for fatigue-intensive skills: Nimble (in light armour) or Brawny (in heavy armour), and any fatigue-intensive perk you wish to use (e.g. Indomitable), and probably Pathfinder (so that awkward terrain doesn't prevent you from moving to the desired spot before using the skills), and maybe Bags&Belts (if you want to carry spare shields or other items)

-- wanting to keep using fatigue-intensive skills (without relying on magic shields, drugs, Iron Lungs and/or cultist traits for one-off battles): Recover (and maybe Resilient to shake off Daze)

-- primarily wanting protection against debilitating injuries from big-hitting enemies (e.g. chosen, schrats, ifrits, orc berserkers): Nimble (and probably Colossus to maximize its effectiveness), and/or Indomitable (if you have the fatigue and can keep using it a lot)

-- primarily wanting protection against swarms of enemies using weapons with decent/high raw damage, decent/high armour effectiveness and modest direct damage (e.g. ancient dead, orc warriors): Battle-Forged

-- wanting additional security against sudden death and/or debilitating injuries and/or negative status effects: Nine Lives and/or Steel Brow and/or Resilient (and probably Colossus first)

-- wanting additional defence via initiative, in priority to using lots of fatigue-intensive skills: Dodge, Relentless, Resilient (to shake off Stagger/Daze), and maybe Overwhelm (if you're going to bother using melee attacks at all)

-- wanting to offer some attacking and/or utilitarian capabilities, instead of just being a boring defence-bot: Duelist, Quick Hands (maybe Bags&Belts for extra weapons/shields/nets, or Berserk for kill-Recover, or Adrenaline to catch enemy ranged units)

[How TF did I write all that crap ^^^]

Wanted to tell you I DID NOT overlook this...very much helpful thank you sir/mam! :)

[Psycho Dad]

also...how to kill ALPS or savants easy? will nets keep them in place and from moving when hit?

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Psycho Dad:

Thanks for all the advice...I was clearly lacking in understanding....didn't think using the handgonne was so <restrictive>....I guess I might go with my 4 xbowman who havn't fully perked yet....and just be a polearm users and switch to handgonne when they bunch up...can yall tell me if that works? its all about the ammo bag yes? so If i just equip that and have the handgoone in belt I should be able to switch a reach weapon to them and use once fight goes into full melee yes?

You should always start with the Gonne (or Xbow) equipped so that it starts the battle pre-loaded. Then you can switch to a Polearm or whatever you want and it will remain loaded in your bag for when you swap back to it after. If you start the battle with a Gonne or Xbow in your bag then it does not start pre-loaded, and you would have to reload after switching to it.

The ammo bag is needed to reload but not to shoot, so you can technically take one shot as long as you start pre-loaded without the ammo bag. as Reaper was describing.