are fencer/duelists viable lategame?

[Karambo]

hi everyone
just have a short question: are fencer duelist builds viable in lategame? currently my plan for my frontline is to have two 2hand hammer builds and two fencer builds (besides two tanks). should i switch the fencers for an other 2hand weapon build? if yes to which one.

thanks for anwsering.

[DarrkPhoenix]

Fencer dualists are certainly viable late game, but they occupy a bit of a niche position so usually I wouldn't recommend having more than one. They can be great to have for diving into enemy lines to take out high value targets, or jumping from enemy to enemy in battles that don't end up a clash of lines (such as goblins), but the trade-off is that they're less useful to have than other bros when you want to maintain a strict line that can go toe to toe with an enemy line (such as against orcs). This is because in these situations you're pretty much stuck using slash instead of lunge, and without the damage bonus of lunge a fencing sword just isn't a particularly impressive weapon (plus with only 20% armor pen on the weapon the dualist won't be doing much direct damage to heavily armored foes). Thus I'd view a fencer dualist as something quite viable and nice to have when the situation calls for it, but something that's rotated in and out of the lineup depending on the foes being faced.

[Heron]

They're really good against light and medium armored foes like Goblins, humans and Orc Young. They're not ideal against super heavy armor (orc warriors) and against ancient dead because those are pierce damage (lunge) resistant.

I would build one if you score a nice famed fencing sword. If you want a bro that you can field any time, build a cleaver duelist. Famed Orc cleavers tend to be easy to find with the bounty hunter and the Warlord potion can be great on them.

[Karambo]

thanks for both anwsers.

Originally posted by Heron:

They're really good against light and medium armored foes like Goblins, humans and Orc Young. They're not ideal against super heavy armor (orc warriors) and against ancient dead because those are pierce damage (lunge) resistant.

I would build one if you score a nice famed fencing sword. If you want a bro that you can field any time, build a cleaver duelist. Famed Orc cleavers tend to be easy to find and the Warlord potion can be great on them.

what do you mean with cleaver duelist? is it just a duelist build with an cleaver instead of an fencing sword? and is one enough?

[Heron]

Originally posted by Karambo:

what do you mean with cleaver duelist? is it just a duelist build with an cleaver instead of an fencing sword? and is one enough?

It's a duelist with a cleaver, yes. They're great middle frontliners. I posted one in the build examples I gave you in the Anatomist thread.

You can have just one or more than one, doesn't really matter. You need a recruit with high lvl 1 init (~110), at least some mdef (20+, 30+ is better), good matk (85+), a high workable fat pool (~80 fat after gear) and acceptable HP (80+, more is preferable). If you find someone who will have that at lvl 11, consider making him a (cleaver) duelist.

[suejak]

A "fencing duelist" is not bound to use a fencing sword in every single fight. He always has Duelist and he always has Sword Mastery. You can use a greatsword or 1h mace or 1h hammer to do better damage against ancient dead or orc warriors.

[suejak]

Originally posted by Heron:

Originally posted by Karambo:

what do you mean with cleaver duelist? is it just a duelist build with an cleaver instead of an fencing sword? and is one enough?

It's a duelist with a cleaver, yes. They're great middle frontliners. I posted one in the build examples I gave you in the Anatomist thread.

You can have just one or more than one, doesn't really matter. You need a recruit with high lvl 1 init (~110), at least some mdef (20+, 30+ is better), good matk (85+), a high workable fat pool (~80 fat after gear) and acceptable HP (80+, more is preferable). If you find someone who will have that at lvl 11, consider making him a (cleaver) duelist.

Out of curiosity, why do you like high init on a cleaver duelist? I tend to want my cleavers to go later in the turn so they can attack things with shredded armour and/or lowered HP (for Decap). This implies lower initiative than the relevant bros shredding armour on the team.

[Heron]

Originally posted by suejak:

Out of curiosity, why do you like high init on a cleaver duelist? I tend to want my cleavers to go later in the term so they can attack things with shredded armour and/or lowered HP (for Decap). This implies lower initiative than the relevant bros shredding armour on the team.

They need that huge fat pool, so they tend to be nimble. With fat, matk and mdef/HP/res to level, mine often end up with ~80 HP and / or mdef in the 20s, quite fragile. To compensate, I like to stack dodge and overwhelm for better protection. That means high base init is required.

With a famed Orc cleaver they 2 shot most things and overwhelm what refuses to die. Works well for me.

[Včelí medvídek]

I am not such pro but my experience with duelist is just mediocre. I wish I turned him to classic 2-hander instead.

[suejak]

Originally posted by Heron:

Originally posted by suejak:

Out of curiosity, why do you like high init on a cleaver duelist? I tend to want my cleavers to go later in the term so they can attack things with shredded armour and/or lowered HP (for Decap). This implies lower initiative than the relevant bros shredding armour on the team.

They need that huge fat pool, so they tend to be nimble. With fat, matk and mdef/HP/res to level, mine often end up with ~80 HP and / or mdef in the 20s, quite fragile. To compensate, I like to stack dodge and overwhelm for better protection. That means high base init is required.

With a famed Orc cleaver they 2 shot most things and overwhelm what refuses to die. Works well for me.

Makes sense. I guess now that I think about it, I made an OW/Dodge 2h cleaver user, which I was hoping would be good 1v1 in the arena to bleed guys out as they flail helplessly trying to score a hit.

[Caledor]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2794131048
If you want to try a very good duelist start as gladiators. He was already the star of my company, before he got this legendary sword.
Pathfinder and underdog are from the sunken libary.

Against goblins or humans he can kill 3 in the first round of combat.
Because of his high initiative he can fight dangerous orcs like berserkes or orc warlods.
Against ancient dead he can lunge to the backline.

Make sure you deactive that your turn ends after you have spend all your action points. Waiting makes him immun against stuns and sand from the nomads.

[The Duck Knight]

since the fencing sword is also a sword you can combine it with other sword duelists.
I once had a guy with insane fitting stats and trait that was a hybrid between my favorite gimmick build (still very usefull against most enemies), the southern sword crippler build, and a fencer duelist. Was a great flanking thread and backline destroyer against living foes with a backline. He just fenced is way around the enemy outline all alone and placed injuries on everyone.
Really great for that. mediocre against undead, great for messing with unholds.

[Shoikan]

I've got a build I'm making now, and his fat isn't as high as I'd like, but I'm using recovery to help out

[Soulheaven]

I personally have 2 fencers in my squad and use them together in one flank. They literally steamroll that flank in a couple turns. Acting as a pair they cover each other and usually one fence can finish the prevous one. This way, I spend most of the time just jumping from one foe to another with the first one and then the second follows. I usually send a tank after them in though fights to help in case of need and maybe rotate them out to cover or enable more lunges.
I haven't really felt my frontline has suffered because most of my guys are already frontliners, with only 3-4 in the back, most of them hybrid-built (both melee and ranged).
It is important to note though that my guys have extremely good named fencing swords (one with maximum damage and almost maximum armor damage, so a lunge deals up to 160 dmg to armor without buffs) that help a lot vs tougher enemies (I would like to find an extra penetration sword just to obliterate any low-medium in one shot but no luck for now)

BTW, my favourite start for fencers is barbarians. I know gladiators are really strong, but barbs have really good starting stats, so there is almost no need to patch FAT/RES, and HP/INI already start strong.

[Caledor]

Originally posted by Soulheaven:

BTW, my favourite start for fencers is barbarians. I know gladiators are really strong, but barbs have really good starting stats, so there is almost no need to patch FAT/RES, and HP/INI already start strong.

Using barbarians is an interesting idea. I used an assassin in my current campain. With just one star in initiative he has 160 ini at level 11.
Hitpoints are a problem. Just 77, but until now I had no problems keeping him alive.