Unholds size and to-hit chance

[That One Guy]

I just watched two arbalesters fire and miss at a nearby Unhold with about 60% odds. These creatures are supposed to be huge yes? Shouldn't it be easier to hit an object the size of a barn door? Thoughts?

[The Duck Knight]

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

[That One Guy]

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

Valid, barn doors do not dodge.

However, it would be much easier for me to hit the floor and avoid an arrow than my really really fat cousin. I think the same could be said for an Unhold.

[NM9G]

Originally posted by That One Guy:

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

Valid, barn doors do not dodge.

However, it would be much easier for me to hit the floor and avoid an arrow than my really really fat cousin. I think the same could be said for an Unhold.

While I agree with what you are saying, an unhold isn’t an inflexible fat, helpless being. Just think of them as incredibly fit, limber beasts who spend their time in the wilds bulking up by traveling, competing with lindwurms, scrats, barbarian/greenskin hunting parties, packs of direwolves, and even other unholds for survival. Plus they are somewhat humanoid in figure, so you ought to take their prowess in physical flexibility into account.

But yeah that said, a bigger target is typically easier to hit with projectiles and strikes. Think how people used shields to cover large surface areas of their body to protect themselves from projectiles, or how people in gun fights would make themselves slimmer by standing sideways to avoid being hit.

With this in mind, if we look at the Huge trait, they gain a 10% buff to damage in exchange for a small minus to defence, are you sure you want that formula as a trade off? As a human with Huge gains the modifiers from above, imagine the damage modifiers of something 3-6 times the size of a human.
Either way, if you look into the code, the devs gave them stats according to what they think is realistic/balanced to their ideals/image of the character.

Edit: I think we just have to call ourselves lucky that the devs didn't give the unholds the ability to give us permanent injuries every time they swing their incredible mass around at our people. I for one am glad that unholds can't pick our guys up and crush them in their hands or throw someone half a football field away into some rocky/tree terrain that could impale us. Not to mention the thought of the devs giving unholds the ability to grab tree trunks/primitive/boulders weapons to swing/hurl at our guys.
So for a second conclusion, we should be happy that the devs decided to hold back their evil schemes when creating a 20-30ft tall hulking, regenerative giant.
It's still a wonder that human civilization can flourish in the BB setting.

[Miggy]

My dude, you were just unlucky. Just recently, I was fighting in the noble war crisis and my axeman was facing off against an enemy sergeant who doesn't even have a helmet. I thought he'll make short work of the dude and move on but the guy just whiffed 4 attacks in 4 consecutive turns all at 70%+ chance to hit while the sergeant cleaved my guy 3 times at 35% chance to hit and they all hit, in 3 F*CKING CONSECUTIVE TURNS! After my guy missed for the 4th time, he bled to death (or gave up on living, I prefer this one). Never raged quit so hard in my life.

[DoomGuy]

Originally posted by Miggy:

My dude, you were just unlucky. Just recently, I was fighting in the noble war crisis and my axeman was facing off against an enemy sergeant who doesn't even have a helmet. I thought he'll make short work of the dude and move on but the guy just whiffed 4 attacks in 4 consecutive turns all at 70%+ chance to hit while the sergeant cleaved my guy 3 times at 35% chance to hit and they all hit, in 3 F*CKING CONSECUTIVE TURNS! After my guy missed for the 4th time, he bled to death (or gave up on living, I prefer this one). Never raged quit so hard in my life.

sounds like my everyday playrun

[Miggy]

Originally posted by DoomGuy:

Originally posted by Miggy:

My dude, you were just unlucky. Just recently, I was fighting in the noble war crisis and my axeman was facing off against an enemy sergeant who doesn't even have a helmet. I thought he'll make short work of the dude and move on but the guy just whiffed 4 attacks in 4 consecutive turns all at 70%+ chance to hit while the sergeant cleaved my guy 3 times at 35% chance to hit and they all hit, in 3 F*CKING CONSECUTIVE TURNS! After my guy missed for the 4th time, he bled to death (or gave up on living, I prefer this one). Never raged quit so hard in my life.

sounds like my everyday playrun

I know, right? This was at my first ever veteran run and I swear the game was giving me better rolls at beginner :P

[That One Guy]

Originally posted by Miggy:

My dude, you were just unlucky. Just recently, I was fighting in the noble war crisis and my axeman was facing off against an enemy sergeant who doesn't even have a helmet. I thought he'll make short work of the dude and move on but the guy just whiffed 4 attacks in 4 consecutive turns all at 70%+ chance to hit while the sergeant cleaved my guy 3 times at 35% chance to hit and they all hit, in 3 F*CKING CONSECUTIVE TURNS! After my guy missed for the 4th time, he bled to death (or gave up on living, I prefer this one). Never raged quit so hard in my life.

Offtopic, but Sergeants are no freaking joke. They look like any other footman, but I treat them as a more dangerous opponent than knights (and slightly more dangerous than the zweihanders). Prioritize and gang up on those little s.

[Stanley]

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

Considering their size, in order to dodge they d need to move to another tile at least. Have you seen the dev concept art? They should be 3-4 tiles wide.

[Miggy]

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

Considering their size, in order to dodge they d need to move to another tile at least. Have you seen the dev concept art? They should be 3-4 tiles wide.

Well seeing the Lindwurm concept art, these f*ckers should be 4 tiles wide or maybe even more and should have claws instead of just a tail and a head. Had I not seen the concept art, I would have assumed that Lindwurms were giant snakes and not wingless dragons. But the Battle Brothers' system is a bit limited in this regard so what is in the game is fine for gameplay purposes.

[suejak]

I dunno, maybe they just batted the arrow away? Maybe it hit an especially tough section of skin or bone that didn't do any damage? Not hard to explain things away if you want to.

[twan]

Personnally I'm more concerned with Unhold size and friendly fire.
If some creature is supposed to be 3 times taller than humans, archers should be able to target high enough to avoid any friendly fire chance.

[Kuattro]

If I had a beast the size of a barn door but with considerable more muscle, bad temper, and teeth than a big piece of wood roaring loudly as it charged straight towards me, I could see myself having a bit of trouble hitting them with a bolt, between fainting and soiling my undies.

Might just be me though.

[Miggy]

Originally posted by Kuattro:

If I had a beast the size of a barn door but with considerable more muscle, bad temper, and teeth than a big piece of wood roaring loudly as it charged straight towards me, I could see myself having a bit of trouble hitting them with a bolt, between fainting and soiling my undies.

Might just be me though.

That could be true for the first couple of times but when you've hunted them so many times you'd think that you'd be used to it. But then your archers will be high level already and so are able to hit them more consistently so maybe they DO get used to it :P

[The Duck Knight]

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

they dodged.
simple as that.
a barn door does not dodge, big difference.

Considering their size, in order to dodge they d need to move to another tile at least. Have you seen the dev concept art? They should be 3-4 tiles wide.

no, they do not. Lets assume your guy aimed at the giant head of the giant monster. All he needed to do is duck and the shot passes by.
Even If he aimed at the center, which would most likely be the part with most flesh and fat to stop the projectile from vital organs, that could also mean he would maybe hit at ANY other part, maybe a shoulder, maybe a leg. a small move would have been good enough to get a shoulder or a leg out of the projectiles way.