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Make a copy of the spreadsheet, and then under "Nimble Evaluation", enter your bros current HP, head armor/fatigue, body armor/fatigue, and then it will say what their effective HP is. You can then modify the armor loadout to see if heavier/lighter stuff would give them more effective HP.
If Fat > 15 then: 0.4 + (FAT penalty above 15)^1.23 × 0.01
else: = 40%
A 20 FAT penalty gives: 0.4 + 5^1.23 × 0.01 = 0.472 (displays as 47%)
Formula yields the following:
Not to say that this is unhelpful, but it is oversimplified for both Nimble and Forge.
It is treating Nimble as a simple multiplier (like Colossus) and then adding the helmet armor and body armor as static values and giving a grand total.
Nimble is favored by the damage formula and is therefore stronger than a simple multiplier (such as Colossus). For example, 80% Nimble and Colossus will achieve the same score in this chart, but in reality, 80% Nimble is stronger than Colossus.
Another area where this EHP chart can be misleading is that it adds the total armor values assuming that both helmet and body is destroyed before death, but this isn't guaranteed. As an example, this chart will say that a 190/65 (Barbute/Gambeson) -15 Nimble will beat a 120/95 (Sallet/L.Lamellar) Nimble because 190+65 > 120+95, but in reality there's a fair chance the Gambeson bro dies before his Barbute has been destroyed.
The simplicity of the chart and formulas makes it easy to digest which is good, but it can lead to misleading conclusions. Just some food for thought.
Also, just now realizing that the Nimble formula used in this chart is incorrect. For example, it is saying that 45 Fat Nimble is 99%, but Nimble becomes inert at 43 Fat. Looks like they are raising the power to 1.2 instead of 1.23
Also, I don't think that spreadsheet's calculation for battleforge EHP is correct. Doesn't the damage reduction scale based on your current armour? So as the battleforge bro's armour is damaged, the damage reduction also decreases. The displayed EHP would only be correct if the first hit basically one shots the bro. I don't think it's possible to calculate an EHP provided by BF since the "real life" situation would be so variable.
Yeah, that's mostly reasonable. With attachments in play (ie Bones), the 40% lines can tie or beat the Noble Mail lines at 100hp often enough and save 5 Fatigue, but Noble Mail line is still good at 100 hp. I would agree to avoid Noble Mail at 120 hp.
I disagree about not using Nimble at sub 100 hp. Of course Nimble value is higher the more hp you have, but you can still get a lot of value out of the perk with a lower hp and perhaps invest more stats elsewhere. As easy example is a backliner who probably doesn't need 100 hp but still would take Nimble for the high value it provides, but even frontliners can run sub 100 as long as you understand they aren't as buff as a 120 hp guy. Noble Mail line will help more on a lower hp bro.
I've done a lot of study on this topic. You can read more here if you want.
Seems like they took the max/starting Forge bonus, multiplied that by .75, and then applied that multiplier to the armor total to get the new EHP. So if I have 300/300 armor, that's a 30% armor reduction (70% displayed Forge). Multiply 30% by .75 and we get 22.5%. Then multiply armor total by 1.225 = 735 effective armor. +HP equals their EHP score.
Again, this is very oversimplified and can be misleading. Very often Forge characters will die with their helmet in tact (or even both armors in tact), so assuming we get 300 extra EHP from a 300 hat is optimistic, and applying a static value to Forge even if lowered from max to compensate is still just guesswork.
It also doesn't take into account the enemy being fought. For example, a 75hp, 200/200 armor bro will die to a Mace Chosen in 2 hits, guaranteed. It doesn't matter that we have by the chart 475 EHP because Chosen slams will ignore most of your armor anyway. If you add Forge to this bro, then he has a 99.9% chance of dying in two hits, and a .01% chance of dying in 3. Forge is effectively worthless. The EHP chart would claim Forge is more valuable than Colossus in this scenario (93hp), but Colossus would give us a 26% chance of dying in 3 hits.
If we go up to 300/300 armor with Forge (back down to 75hp again), we have a 62% chance of dying in 2 hits and a 38% chance of dying in 3. Our "EHP" has increased by over 200 but the Chosen is not impressed and kills us in two hits anyway.
Sorry, I don't mean to be hating on whoever made this "EHP" chart, just want to point out that the simplicity of it can be misleading.
You can calculate the effective HP of Nimble and Forge proper, but you need to use a real damage calculator that uses the actual damage formula and that updates the Forge coefficient as damage is taken. Even then, real damage calculators are still an oversimplification of true battlefield conditions because they often assume unrealistic things such as perfect accuracy and 1v1s. Even if you try and factor accuracy, it is unrealistic to think it would be static when things like morale, surrounding, and elevation exist. But still, that's about as best as we can simulate.
Running all the helmet / armor combinations through the damage calculator it became apparent the many helmet / armor combinations yield the same hits-to-death results skewing the plots towards higher number of duplicate results. Not the results i wanted.
Sorry turtle, I tried to use your calculator but could not get it to produce any results through Repl.it. Therefor, I went with the Able damage calculator thinking any errors would be carried through to all the calculations yielding the Nimble Forged desired armor combination.
Took a different path in my quest by using the formulas for Nimble and Battle Forged to determine hits-to-death but could not find the Nimble formula. Reading the problems with the oversimplification of the formulas only numbers and of damage calculators in general, I have less confidence any meaningful information will come from my efforts. This is all before considering the many durability to fatigue combinations of famed helmets and armors or combinations of famed with vanilla helmets and armor.
The real question is, what is the optimal Nimble Forged durability to fatigue helmet / armor combination?
Nimble Forged seems the answer to the medium armor dilemma. In game play, famed medium armors are found in shops at affordable prices in the early to mid-game and combined with Nimble Forged makes for powerful builds in those phases of the game.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "Able" calculator. Abel helped me a lot on creating my calculator but I don't believe ever made one himself.
There isn't really a simple answer to the question. There isn't a single optimal Nimble-Forged set because it depends on too many factors, not just the bro's HP and armor stats, but also things like which enemies are we trying to optimize against?
Even my generalized test against 35 enemies isn't perfect, because scoring the highest in that test still doesn't mean it is always the best option. It is hard to reconcile the various damage sources in the game in a generalized test when things like Chosen and Goblins threaten a bro in very different ways. Leaning more toward the Nimble end will help against big hitters while leaning more toward the Forge end will help against smaller attackers.
Calculations do suggest however, that NimbleForged without famed armor is not worth it. You are better off specializing to one side if you are just using regular armor. If you really wanted two passive durability perks without famed armor then you could add Brow or Nine Lives rather than going NimbleForged.
If you have famed armor, the "optimal" set still depends on what you are trying to protect yourself against and how your famed armor rolls and what your HP is like. Lindwurm attachment and LPR are both great considerations for NimbleForged with LPR often scoring "worse" in my testing but costing less Fatigue and making you more resilient against big hitters while Lindwurm makes you more durable "overall."
One somewhat easy conclusion you can make is that if your famed set is at 35 or less Fatigue then Nimble is better than Colossus. 35 Fatigue is an 80% Nimble which because of the damage formula will protect better than Colossus. Since ColossusForged is already popular, switching it to NimbleForged in this case would be better, or you can take all three and enjoy good passive bulk.
Light/Medium famed Nimble sets can consider picking up Forge, but the value added usually isn't that impressive. I'm talking around 200/200 sets. It is completely reasonable to just run Nimble here and not bother with Forge. Forge value is enough where you could choose it, but still skippable since perks are limited.
Coming back to the question again. If we wanted to declare an optimal NimbleForged set then it would be Davkul with Kraken, AFP, or LPR, but that information is useless.
Otherwise, best I can generalize is "as much armor as you can get while still having a decent Nimble%" but that too isn't very useful information.
If you have specific armor sets you are considering I can take a closer look, but I can't really declare an easy optimal answer or what is always the best direction to go.
I examined an armor in the Community Challenge thread at the bottom of page three.
Another one on Reddit
Hope that helps, maybe.
This is a link to the damage calculator used for the armor combinations. It was created by LordMidas not Able. My bad. It works offline, which was useful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBrothers/comments/c1amwp/simulation_program_v02_release_bleed_mechanics/
Correct, the Nimble formula is wrong here (it overvalues Nimble). I don't know how it is coded, but my suspicion is that it raises Nimble to the 1.2 power instead of 1.23 like it is supposed to.
Edit: Actually I just looked at it again and it is way off. It is saying that Nimble is still active at 49 Fatigue which is not right at all, and not even raised to 1.2 power. I don't know how it is calculated here at all, but it is being overvalued with heavier armor.
The 40% Nimble is wrong too, I think maybe it calcs Nimble at the end of the damage calculation instead of toward the early part. Which very much undervalues Nimble.
Basically don't try to do Nimble calcs with this calculator.
If I remember rightly, the "reduced HP damage" version of Nimble was adjusted several times in quick succession after first seeing the light of day, and the earliest form raised Nimble to the power of 1.1 (and did not allow 15 free points of armour fatigue). So perhaps that calculator was based on that.