Battle Brothers

Battle Brothers

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Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 10:39am
How to tackle armored enemies?
Maybe I just had extremely bad luck on this one, but I just lost 2 of my best bros in a 12v6 against brigand raiders. I literally had the same armor as them, same weapon variants like maces axes and picks, etc. Somehow it felt like they were going through my armor like it was made of paper while theirs was sturdy as hell. I honestly was baffled, 2 level 6 bros down the drain.

I'm trying to come up with strategies for armor, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Daggers seem to be risky with all the missing until a stab connects and I feel like nets are more of a defensive tool rather than help me kill them easier. Is there something that I am missing?
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
GetUrAssToMars Feb 8, 2024 @ 10:52am 
Puncture bros scale out very nicely for armor piercing. Especially if you give them dagger mastery. High accuracy will negate the hit penalty quite a bit. I can chew through most armored nobles and orcs like butter. Im currently running 2 nimble bros rocking direwolf leather armor. If they aren't killing them they are routing them with fear procs.

Other than that focus on armor breaking weapons. If you have throwing bros switch to axes instead of spears. Hammers. Armor breaking is the hammer bro's wheel house.

Nets are VERY good for hit chance bonus, but there is an opportunity cost. Have to replenish and they take up precious inventory space. Good for duelist throwers.
99Random Feb 8, 2024 @ 12:11pm 
At level 6 you are likely wearing max 150-200 durability armor and a solid hammer blow from a brigand can vaporize that. I prioritize hammer wielding enemies at that stage of the game for that reason.
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 12:12pm 
Originally posted by GetUrAssToMars:
Other than that focus on armor breaking weapons. If you have throwing bros switch to axes instead of spears. Hammers. Armor breaking is the hammer bro's wheel house.

Maybe this is it, most of my backline are throwers, I will try to give them axes, see how it goes. Thanks.

Do you know how high melee attack needs to be for daggers to be reliable? I might try to build a bro with fast adaptation and backstab and see how it goes, but I always had problems with it. Dagger bros are the first to die when I try, it's like the AI knows.
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 12:16pm 
Originally posted by 99Random:
At level 6 you are likely wearing max 150-200 durability armor and a solid hammer blow from a brigand can vaporize that. I prioritize hammer wielding enemies at that stage of the game for that reason.
Is there even a point to wear as much armor as possible then? All it does it take fatigue away while the enemy one shots it anyways. I don't want my bros to die, but it almost sounds like armor is an inconvenience sometimes.
Glorious Comrade Feb 8, 2024 @ 1:24pm 
You can do fatigue neutral heavy armor build for bro that is subpar. (low fatigue)

Fatigue Neutral means you regain 15 fatigue for each bro when it is their turn.

So if you have weapon mastery of your choice and path finder perk, then give that bro a 2 hand weapon, and have him wear the heaviest armor until he still have 16 point of fatigue left. Path finder cancel out terrain penalty and height penalty as if you are on flat grass ground. and weapon mastery reduce the fatigue cost of attacks. Combining both 15 fatigue allows you to always walk 1 tile and swing once. And for 2 hand weapon you can only swing once anyway. This way fatigue is irreverent, your bro will always have enough fatigue to walk and attack when it is their turn.
Last edited by Glorious Comrade; Feb 8, 2024 @ 1:27pm
A5G_Reaper Feb 8, 2024 @ 1:33pm 
I'm honestly baffled that you lose lv6 bros when you outnumber them twice over. Your mace/axe/picks should delete raider armor in very short order. Are you using shields? That's a major impact to your damage output.

Also, at that stage polearms like pike and billhook are stupid good to shred through raiders. Do you have enough of it? Meanwhile, your throwing weapon users do need at least mastery for it to match up to polearm.

If I have to throw a wild guess, your equipment and/or perk choices may not be the most optimal. Post some screenshot of your bros perhaps?
charles_d_berger Feb 8, 2024 @ 1:48pm 
Sounds like you have a dying problem, as well as an armor-wrecking problem. For the dying problem, I know it's not really popular, but I find Nine Lives plus Rotate (or quick step) on ALL my guys provides really solid anti-dying backstop protection. (Add Surgeon for even more.)

Nine lives is especially nice for negating that annoying poison or bleeding death, obviating the need to worry about bandages or antidotes for the most part.

Basically nine lives almost always gives you a chance to get a bro to safety through rotate. Rotate on one bro is good; rotate on all of them gives you some unparalleled tactical flexibility, plus the anti-dying bit.
99Random Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:25pm 
Originally posted by Shrimp:
Originally posted by 99Random:
At level 6 you are likely wearing max 150-200 durability armor and a solid hammer blow from a brigand can vaporize that. I prioritize hammer wielding enemies at that stage of the game for that reason.
Is there even a point to wear as much armor as possible then? All it does it take fatigue away while the enemy one shots it anyways. I don't want my bros to die, but it almost sounds like armor is an inconvenience sometimes.

As mentioned fat neutral builds are popular. Also, the hammers go both ways.

It takes numerous hits to saw through heavy armor with a sword, but I have pulverized Orc heavy armor in two blows from a hammer. Use the right weapon against the right enemy and stop the enemy from trying to do the same. Basic tactics and why having a front line full of one weapon type is not great.
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:26pm 
Originally posted by A5G_Reaper:
I'm honestly baffled that you lose lv6 bros when you outnumber them twice over. Your mace/axe/picks should delete raider armor in very short order. Are you using shields? That's a major impact to your damage output.

Also, at that stage polearms like pike and billhook are stupid good to shred through raiders. Do you have enough of it? Meanwhile, your throwing weapon users do need at least mastery for it to match up to polearm.

If I have to throw a wild guess, your equipment and/or perk choices may not be the most optimal. Post some screenshot of your bros perhaps?
That's one of the reasons I felt like I was having bad luck. A fully armored bro with a shield doing shieldwall getting hit twice in a row. The armor goes away in the first hit and in the second he is almost at half health. Not my proudest moment in this game. Granted, I didn't have many polearms and too many throwers.

I use mostly what drops from the brigands, everything else is quite expensive. Not sure how to post pics but I had like 4 throwers, 1 polearm and two guys with spears in the flank, and the rest were frontliners. I had adrenaline and dogs for the frontliners and the hit chance increase for the throwers. The polearm guy was meh. The frontliners were a mix of axes, arming swords and maces. All upper tier. Was having a comfy game until armored enemies started appearing en masse, usually the throwers kill one or two unarmored before the melee even starts.



Originally posted by charles_d_berger:
Sounds like you have a dying problem, as well as an armor-wrecking problem. For the dying problem, I know it's not really popular, but I find Nine Lives plus Rotate (or quick step) on ALL my guys provides really solid anti-dying backstop protection. (Add Surgeon for even more.)

Nine lives is especially nice for negating that annoying poison or bleeding death, obviating the need to worry about bandages or antidotes for the most part.

Basically nine lives almost always gives you a chance to get a bro to safety through rotate. Rotate on one bro is good; rotate on all of them gives you some unparalleled tactical flexibility, plus the anti-dying bit.
Yeah i'm a bit undecisive about Nine Lives. I usually go for colossus because a bro that dies might die again on me.
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:28pm 
Is the neutral fat build viable for the early game though? I've seen the AI target anyone without a shield like they owe them money. They are usually the first to die for me.
Strelokest Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:31pm 
It might help if you screenshot your bros so we can take a look at your gear. A 12v6 vs brigands should never really result in any deaths unless your boys are really undergeared.

Compared to a lot of other enemies in the game, Brigands are actually pretty lightly armored. They have just enough armor so that spears suffer against them, but they don't generally require any anti-armor strats outside of not using the very worst armor-damage weapons against them. Their stats are also on-par with a solid level 3-5 bro.

That said, a common beginner mistake is to make the entire frontline shield users. Double gripping (using a 1h weapon with no shield) pretty significantly ups damage and you should have at least a couple bros with decent survivability in the middle of your line double gripping or using 2h weapons. The extra damage significantly increases their ability to kill raiders. Generally in BB, killing fast is a better defense than trying to turtle.

Backliners with javelins, crossbows, and polearms are also useful in those early brigand fights. It's worth giving some mediocre bro Quick Hands + Bags and Belts plus a polearm (hopefully with mastery) and a pocket full of nets as an emergency button if you need to disable an enemy.
Last edited by Strelokest; Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:33pm
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:42pm 
Originally posted by Strelokest:
It might help if you screenshot your bros so we can take a look at your gear. A 12v6 vs brigands should never really result in any deaths unless your boys are really undergeared.

Compared to a lot of other enemies in the game, Brigands are actually pretty lightly armored. They have just enough armor so that spears suffer against them, but they don't generally require any anti-armor strats outside of not using the very worst armor-damage weapons against them. Their stats are also on-par with a solid level 3-5 bro.

That said, a common beginner mistake is to make the entire frontline shield users. Double gripping (using a 1h weapon with no shield) pretty significantly ups damage and you should have at least a couple bros with decent survivability in the middle of your line double gripping or using 2h weapons. The extra damage significantly increases their ability to kill raiders. Generally in BB, killing fast is a better defense than trying to turtle.

Backliners with javelins, crossbows, and polearms are also useful in those early brigand fights. It's worth giving some mediocre bro Quick Hands + Bags and Belts plus a polearm (hopefully with mastery) and a pocket full of nets as an emergency button if you need to disable an enemy.
i think I got it, Not sure if it shows.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3156775488

Yeah, as I was saying, anyone without a shield gets smashed pretty fast. Any tips on how to preserve those damage dealers early on?
Strelokest Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:45pm 
Yeah, your gear level is plenty for dealing with brigands safely. Your main problem seems to be lack of damage dealers. Javs are nice, but until the throwers get mastery plus duelist they cannot really carry. Stabbing polearms are really good for the backline early-mid game because of their bonus to hit and solid damage.

The key for using early game double grip / 2h frontliners is positioning and gear. They get armor priority, always. Never put them on the flanks. Alongside that, you need to move them cautiously. For dangerous fights, it can be worth moving your shield bros up a tile and leaving the double grippers back a tile, only moving in once you have identified a good safe kill for them. That said, it's normally safe for them to just be in the middle of the line in a typical straight line fight unless the enemy has a lot of ranged power. It's very important to never let them end up in a concave position where they are fighting 3+ enemies.

The big killer of early game double grippers and 2hers is brigand marksmen with tier 2 crossbows. If the bro is any good, I typically retreat them ASAP if they take a heavy hit and make sure to keep a shieldbro in front of them to try to protect them from archers.

As for building them, I typically go colossus -> gifted -> Dodge if they are good enough to keep around. If you are just desperate for somebody to fill the ranks and don't want to keep them long term, Fast Adaptation -> Gifted -> 9 lives / colossus depending on their HP.

Early-mid game you want to build for nimble. Nimble armor is easy to find and cheap, suitable Nimble bros are super common, and a Nimble bro with raider gear and 90 HP is about as durable as a BF bro with 200/200 armor and 60 HP. Nimble duelists with maces are my go-to frontliner build for the first crisis.
Last edited by Strelokest; Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:50pm
Shrimp Feb 8, 2024 @ 2:55pm 
Thanks for the tips. I actually started another game to see if I can experiment a bit more with the builds. About the frontline, how many damage dealers should I have per shielded ones? Say, in the game I started I have 7 guys. How many should be shielded and how many damage dealers?
Strelokest Feb 8, 2024 @ 3:13pm 
Typically in my campaigns I try to get 2 up and running in the first few days. Basically as soon as I get some armor that isn't just some T-shirts stitched together. In the extremely early game while the main enemies are still thugs, swords are REALLY good for double grippers because of their high flesh damage and bonus to hit. From there, it comes down to whether I find good bros for the job or not. I'll up that to 3 or even 4 of them as soon as I find good bros and the gear to protect them. Once raiders start to become the main threat, I will switch them over to flails, axes, and maces. Flails are nice on bros who don't have great matk but are otherwise good for the task since they ignore shield mdef bonuses.

The end goal is to have a full frontline of damage dealers with some backup tanks to swap in if you need them for specific fights. 2h swords and 2h hammers work well on the flanks due to their AOE attacks, but they need a REALLY good bro to survive that role.

And remember that any random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with 9 lives and fast adaptation can be an OK early game damage dealer that can die without matter too much. Those perks are kind of bad at high levels, but they can go a long way towards helping your company along to make to late game.

Incidentally, always check the market in citadels. Sometimes you can get lucky and find something like a nearly destroyed 2h sword which will absolutely skyrocket your ability to kill.
Last edited by Strelokest; Feb 8, 2024 @ 3:30pm
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Date Posted: Feb 8, 2024 @ 10:39am
Posts: 24