best way to gain strong bros on ironman mode

[chalk outline]

keep buying lowborn and grinding good attributes/talents(2-3star mdef,matk)
or
buying highborn

which is better for economic reason?

[turtle225]

I would say that it depends on which stage of the game you are in and what exactly you are looking for.

In the early and mid game you generally focus on cheap guys out of necessity, but Hunters should be a priority for any ranged you want to use and aren't too expensive.

It's important to consider the gear that a guy brings when you hire him. Expensive backgrounds are expensive in part due to that they usually bring with them expensive gear. As an example, buying a Hedge Knight with a 2H Mace and 200 armor is gonna be expensive, but if you are at a point in the game where you still need a 2H Mace and don't have much armor then he becomes a very economical hire. Assassins can sometimes be hired with Assassin Robes which are the best non-famed Nimble armor and worth hiring for that reason alone, but Assassins are also a good background so it's a win-win.

In the late game I tend to focus more on expensive recruits because money is no longer an issue and it becomes somewhat difficult to find cheap lowborns worth investing in compared to the guys I already raised.

[Cat®]

Chance determines the probability of them having good stars, and while expensive backgrounds usually end up being better than cheap backgrounds; that isn't always true. I always recommend buying varied backgrounds for coverage in events, which often leads to long-term value that exceeds pure combat value.

But in the end I'd suggest you focus on taking the backgrounds you want to fill out in your team, no matter what those backgrounds are, and just try to babysit them to get levels. Levels will in the vast majority of cases outscale any background-based benefits. A level 10 beggar will in most cases wipe the floor with a level 1 hedge knight; presuming they have equal gear.

Strength in gear and experience is my philosophy.

[Estieukua]

You can't really beat hiring from cheap backgrounds that have significantly better than average base values for more than one relevant stat, and keeping the ones with decent talents and traits. The ones with melee talent(s) will be better than any "premium" recruit without the same talents, and melee skill in the 80s or beyond (achievable on talented non-"premium" recruits) is good enough for any fight in the game.

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for HPs and Fatigue are better than the norm:

Wildmen
Farmhands
Lumberjacks
Brawlers
Caravan Hands
Gravediggers (slightly)
Butchers (slightly)

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for HPs and Resolve are better than the norm:

Wildmen
Brawlers
Miners
Lumberjacks (slightly)
Caravan Hands (slightly)
Gravediggers (slightly)
Butchers (slightly)

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for Fatigue and Resolve are better than the norm:

Wildmen
Cultists
Flagellants
Brawlers
Lumberjacks (slightly)
Caravan Hands (slightly)
Graverobbers (slightly)
Gravediggers (slightly)
Butchers (slightly)
Militia (slightly)

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for Initiative are better than the norm:

Gamblers (also higher resolve)
Thieves
Jugglers
Fishermen (slightly; also slightly higher average base values for HPs, Fatigue and Resolve)
Poachers (slightly)
Graverobbers (slightly; also slightly higher fatigue and resolve)
Minstrels (slightly; also higher resolve)


Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (but not necessarily max possible values) for Melee Skill are better than the norm:

Militia (max 62)
Butchers (max 59)
Miners
Caravan Hands
Brawlers
Lumberjacks
Wildmen (can be Clumsy and can't be Dexterous)

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for Melee Defence are better than the norm:

Thieves
Houndmasters (also very slightly higher average base values for HPs, Fatigue, Resolve and Initiative)
Gamblers (slightly)
Messengers (slightly; also high base Fatigue)
Graverobbers (slightly)


Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for Ranged Skill are better than the norm:

Poachers
Shepherds (also very slightly higher average base values for Fatigue and Resolve)
Militia
Jugglers (slightly)

Cheap backgrounds whose average base values (and max possible values) for Ranged Defence are better than the norm:

Thieves
Gamblers
Messengers (slightly)
Graverobbers (slightly)

[Mr Majestic]

I'm playing my second Ironman run*, and I'm not too picky when recruiting. I can make most brothers work, so I usually hire for price.

If I'm broke, I've found that Messengers (postal) have good defence and fatigue. As I've usually got salvaged weapons, I often pick the cheapest hires who don't come with their own weapons. I've been surprised with a few reasonable brothers from cheap backgrounds (but never hire Peddlers). I use the trait option with cheap background brothers to filter out crippling traits. With a little more money I hire cost effective Deserters, but their resolve needs to be managed.

Really poor recruits don't get the best gear and get retired early, either by me or nachzehrers. If they turn out to be average I build them as their stats dictate, and to what good weapons I've obtained. I'm not hunting for the perfect recruit... I don't have the money to spare.

I'm hitting levels 6 - 10 at the moment and none of my current guys are good recruits, even my starting companions are pretty ordinary. I've a couple with high defence, but low attack. Or decent attack, and moderate defence. However, they're all holding their own. And they're cheap as chips. And I'm slowly advancing to obtain better gear. I'm a bit apprehensive that I'm going to soon see greater amounts of Chosen, Fallen Heroes, Lv3 Nachos in fights and my average joes will all get wiped from the board, but I'm carefully scouting enemies packs before engaging and I'm not afraid to abandon a unprofitable contract to save my skin. And currently I'm saving money to recruit an Adventurous Noble or a Raider to start producing a decent hammerman for the flanks.

Ironman is tense and I'm enjoying the challenge, but the amount of contacts I cautiously decline leaves me a bit short of funds, and a bit bored picking off bandits and barbarian thralls, whereas previously I'd take on Lindwurms and reload if I lost someone good.

The bottom line is... hire lowborn at the start, keep the wheat, discard the chaff. Hire better recruits when you have the funds. But if you don't need the equipment, it's a cheaper gamble to hire those without expensive weapons and armour.

Ironman... make the best of what you get.



* the first Ironman run were Davkul cultists; it didn't end well. I figured I'd need to play a death cult not to be upset about losing beloved brothers. "Into Davkul slightly indifferent arms ye go." But man, that was a challenge; losing talented brothers who were pretty upset I'd bound a friend of theirs above a fire pit and reverently hacked out his heart and held it aloft. Never knew grizzled veterans could be so delicate about such a thing.

[UnluckyNoob]

At first I get full roster of bros with decent cheap backgrounds.

Then I look for decent hunter because good archer let you snowball really fast.

After that I

Originally posted by kuroe:

keep buying lowborn and grinding good attributes/talents(2-3star mdef,matk)

And finally

Originally posted by kuroe:

buying highborn

Of course you need recruiter to increase amount of potential recruits.

[Mr Majestic]

Originally posted by UnluckyNoob:

Of course you need recruiter to increase amount of potential recruits.

In Ironman? I see recruits from good backgrounds whilst travelling... but I rarely have the funds to hire one. I wouldn't waste 5,000 gold or so to hire the recruiter just to be exposed to more recruits I couldn't afford. I'm trying to hire the drill sergeant because I'm sick of rotating the whiners from the bench.

[UnluckyNoob]

Originally posted by Mr Majestic:

Originally posted by UnluckyNoob:

Of course you need recruiter to increase amount of potential recruits.

In Ironman? I see recruits from good backgrounds whilst travelling... but I rarely have the funds to hire one. I wouldn't waste 5,000 gold or so to hire the recruiter just to be exposed to more recruits I couldn't afford. I'm trying to hire the drill sergeant because I'm sick of rotating the whiners from the bench.

You obviously shouldn't spend your first money on recruiter. I do not hire him before opening 4th retinue slot which is around day 50. At that time I look at my best bros and famed items stockpile and decide which one I need more: bounty hunter or recruiter.

[Tlewnipla]

Just buy cheap and keep all but the most abmysal ones (bad traits, min rolls in important stats for an intended build etc.). You do not need premium bros to tackle the games challenges.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

I don't think lowborns scale well into the late game (200+). Even if you get perfect rolls and star distribution, most lowborns have SOMETHING that needs to be patched. And that comes in the form of rolls or perks.

Ideally find bros that can skip the colossus + gifted tax and reach 95 HP+ for forged units (although colossus is pretty good and you'll probably want to take it anyways), and reach about 35 mdef for Frontline. that's a start.

Eventually lowborns WILL die because they don't have the stats for the scaled content, and that's time it will cost to level another bro.

Try to always roll on backgrounds on the 15 to 25 wage range (they usually constitute "mid game and possibly late game bros", aside few exceptions), that come with no or cheap equipment.

Top tier backgrounds are rather difficult to find without equipment, and a lot of the money goes in buying the gear they're carrying. I usually need something more to hire (like looking to buy said gear, maybe a good trait like strong), otherwise is a though gamble.

[Melkolf]

Originally posted by UnluckyNoob:

Originally posted by Mr Majestic:

In Ironman? I see recruits from good backgrounds whilst travelling... but I rarely have the funds to hire one. I wouldn't waste 5,000 gold or so to hire the recruiter just to be exposed to more recruits I couldn't afford. I'm trying to hire the drill sergeant because I'm sick of rotating the whiners from the bench.

You obviously shouldn't spend your first money on recruiter. I do not hire him before opening 4th retinue slot which is around day 50. At that time I look at my best bros and famed items stockpile and decide which one I need more: bounty hunter or recruiter.

Never hired Recruiter, ever, in any run. Far more important and useful retinue to hire. Yes, the Drill Sergeant is far more useful, as is bounty hunter, and even the Agent (?) lady who shows you what contracts await in what settlements (linked to bounty hunter she really rocks on famed weapon acquisition). Only run Drill Sergeant isn't needed is Lone Wolf because you never have anyone in reserve; if seriously injured you camp until healed rather than risk deaths by reducing the squad.

Grief, I'd even keep the Scout, even the Cook, along with Surgeon and Blacksmith, long before I'd ditch one of them to waste money on Recruiter. Honestly, the Negotiator is far less of a waste of money and far more useful than Recruiter.

[Estieukua]

Originally posted by Disciple.:

Eventually lowborns WILL die because they don't have the stats for the scaled content, and that's time it will cost to level another bro.

You can beat everything in the game with an entire team of non-highborns, and without taking Gifted on anyone, and without requiring mega-talent and "perfect" star distributions (and without even having much melee defence on about half your starting line-up).

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

I agree with Estieukua, I've beaten all legendary locations except for the kraken with davkulites and most of them never reached 90+ melee attack by level 15-20.

[Estieukua]

You can do the Kraken as well with the cheese strategy!

[Jean-Maurice Nya]

Like being full of mushrooms and get an insane amount of damages? I think that's probably the best strat but so far I didn't have the patience to stack them.
At the moment, all three companies that tried to kill it died.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Originally posted by Estieukua:

Originally posted by Disciple.:

Eventually lowborns WILL die because they don't have the stats for the scaled content, and that's time it will cost to level another bro.

You can beat everything in the game with an entire team of non-highborns, and without taking Gifted on anyone, and without requiring mega-talent and "perfect" star distributions (and without even having much melee defence on about half your starting line-up).

I play LONG campaigns, and I like to take on the hard camps. Most of the times, if there is a lost, the usual suspect is one of the lowborns that was pushed way beyond his expiration date.

I think there's strategies for most of the legendary locations (haven't done them all) but I'm talking more about fully scaled camps.

And it is not that lowborns can't make it, but they gotta be damn near perfect or otherwise they struggle a lot more. They just are way more likely to die.