Is their a Duelist melee/thrower build?

[Lampros]

I assume so, but I want to make sure. If there is, then what is the build - i.e. key Perks?

[Tlewnipla]

Just the standard hybrid build, really. No polearms mastery, obviously. A movement or survival perk instead is what I'd choose.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Tlewnipla:

Just the standard hybrid build, really. No polearms mastery, obviously. A movement or survival perk instead is what I'd choose.

I'd agree with your preference; but I was just wondering if someone came up with something exotic that works! ;)

What about a shield user/thrower hybrid build? Wasn't that one popular when throwing weapons were first introduced?

[bulbatrs]

With a shield I think what you could do is drop the "hybrid" part and use southern spears when the fight gets up and melee, thus you would never need to actually use melee and even if you do it would be a spear. https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-3&1-6&3-3&4-12&6-3&6-1&7-3&2-7&1-5&1-8 that's what I would think it would look like, but there is lots of room for testing and variations depending on the bro.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

With a shield I think what you could do is drop the "hybrid" part and use southern spears when the fight gets up and melee, thus you would never need to actually use melee and even if you do it would be a spear. https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-3&1-6&3-3&4-12&6-3&6-1&7-3&2-7&1-5&1-8 that's what I would think it would look like, but there is lots of room for testing and variations depending on the bro.

Isn't the throwing spear one-time use only? I've never used it. And yes, I mis-spoke. I meant something like a "legionary" build where you do equip a shield and hence do not use the Duelist Perk.

Edit: That's an offensive build though. Any tanking/throwing hybrid build? I would assume it's possible with something like a Sellsword?

[bulbatrs]

It's one time use per combat, but it reloads afterwards, that's why you need bags and belts. You could keep 3 spears+ 2 throwing weapons, should be enough for most fights.
https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-8&1-6&1-3&4-12&6-3&7-4&3-3&2-7&1-5&5-4
here is more defensive version. you can use the spear fire and indom. a bit hard to say what would be better - rotation or underdog, depending on the role in fights. Not sure if you need recover as well.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

It's one time use per combat, but it reloads afterwards, that's why you need bags and belts. You could keep 3 spears+ 2 throwing weapons, should be enough for most fights.
https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-8&1-6&1-3&4-12&6-3&7-4&3-3&2-7&1-5&5-4
here is more defensive version. you can use the spear fire and indom. a bit hard to say what would be better - rotation or underdog, depending on the role in fights. Not sure if you need recover as well.

Thanks. Do you prefer Nimble to BF in general - or just for this build? I ask, because I rarely use Nimble melee characters.

I think Fatigue and HP won't be as much of an issue with this particular run, because I am playing Davkul Cultists. So likely no Recover and certainly not Colossus. So what else should I replace them with?

[bulbatrs]

Instead of colossus you could take gifted,
Sadly crippling strikes won't work without duelist, so maybe fearsome? you should still do some hp damage and it can come in really handy.
Thinking about it a bit more fearsome should be really good with shield thrower. It's something you can take over underdog if to keep recover, should be a lot better.
https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-6&4-12&7-4&3-3&2-7&1-5&5-4&6-4&2-8&7-1
take brawny over underdog if you need more fat.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

Instead of colossus you could take gifted,
Sadly crippling strikes won't work without duelist, so maybe fearsome? you should still do some hp damage and it can come in really handy.
Thinking about it a bit more fearsome should be really good with shield thrower. It's something you can take over underdog if to keep recover, should be a lot better.
https://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-9&1-6&4-12&7-4&3-3&2-7&1-5&5-4&6-4&2-8&7-1
take brawny over underdog if you need more fat.

Thanks; I will try that then - if I find the right Sellsword or Squire, etc. (Of course, he has to be Dumb or Brain Damaged, too! ;))

[turtle225]

I've used many variations of something like this:
https://www.bbplanner.xyz/?perks=sAQAACAs&gear=AAEgC%2BDqFAAAAqA8B3Aq

There's two open perks for preference. Bags could also be dropped but it provides a decent chunk of fatigue and more options for each battle.

If your bro has good base melee defense (ie ~30) then he can front-line with this build. The idea is that you can chuck a bunch of Javelins at the start and then swap to the Sword if you get engaged. If you have great melee skill you can use a Mace or something better than a Sword. You have a Heater in the pocket so can get up to ~50 defense if he gets into too much pressure. Because you are leveling both melee and ranged skill and probably defense you tend to be pretty compromised on HP so you have to be somewhat careful, but with that much defense he should be able to take some pressure.

Without Xbow spec you can shoot the Handgonne once and then switch to Throwing. I do like to add Xbow spec as well as it adds more versatility to him to use the Handgonne multiple times or use a Heavy Xbow instead.

The build is more ranged focused but can do melee if needed. Works very well against Chosen in my experience. They will usually go out of their way to flank around and get to these guys giving you a lot of time to shoot them, then if one does get around you can switch to the melee weapon and try to finish him off with either damage or Fearsome. Of course the rest of your team is around to help as well.

I've also built melee focused Duelists who carry Throwing weapons with little ranged skill investment (ie in the 60's or so and probably Fast Ad, which isn't much for a Hunter or Sellsword). These can be fun, but instead of that investment you could instead use a Polearm and not bother with the ranged investment at all, which probably makes more sense.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by turtle225:

I've used many variations of something like this:
https://www.bbplanner.xyz/?perks=sAQAACAs&gear=AAEgC%2BDqFAAAAqA8B3Aq

There's two open perks for preference. Bags could also be dropped but it provides a decent chunk of fatigue and more options for each battle.

If your bro has good base melee defense (ie ~30) then he can front-line with this build. The idea is that you can chuck a bunch of Javelins at the start and then swap to the Sword if you get engaged. If you have great melee skill you can use a Mace or something better than a Sword. You have a Heater in the pocket so can get up to ~50 defense if he gets into too much pressure. Because you are leveling both melee and ranged skill and probably defense you tend to be pretty compromised on HP so you have to be somewhat careful, but with that much defense he should be able to take some pressure.

Without Xbow spec you can shoot the Handgonne once and then switch to Throwing. I do like to add Xbow spec as well as it adds more versatility to him to use the Handgonne multiple times or use a Heavy Xbow instead.

The build is more ranged focused but can do melee if needed. Works very well against Chosen in my experience. They will usually go out of their way to flank around and get to these guys giving you a lot of time to shoot them, then if one does get around you can switch to the melee weapon and try to finish him off with either damage or Fearsome. Of course the rest of your team is around to help as well.

I've also built melee focused Duelists who carry Throwing weapons with little ranged skill investment (ie in the 60's or so and probably Fast Ad, which isn't much for a Hunter or Sellsword). These can be fun, but instead of that investment you could instead use a Polearm and not bother with the ranged investment at all, which probably makes more sense.

Thanks!

As I told Bulbatrs, I am doing a Cultist campaign; so I will be okay on HPs, Fatigue, and Resolve relative to other campaigns. So, for instance, Colossus is not needed. This is also precisely why I am looking to step out of my comfort zone and experiment with different builds! ;)

Now to the specific build itself: What is the handgun generally used for? I've never actually used it. Is it mainly to do AoE chip damage? If so, isn't it not too useful without another effect-spreading Perk such as Fearsome or Crippling? And I don't think a tank has enough Perk spots to add one of them as well.

Yes, I did feel you'd need a sizable Ranged Attack investment to pull it off, because otherwise it may be better to go 1H/shield and throwing weapons hybrid, as you say. But I get lots of extra stats with a Cultist campaign, a Sellsword or even a Squire might pull this build off.

One last thing: When I saw these builds when throwing weapons were first introduced, I recall some folks claiming that a hybrid front-line tank/thrower is not effective unless fielded in multiples, because having just 1 of these guys won't contribute much ranged damage and be less efficient as a tank. Is this still the case?

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Now to the specific build itself: What is the handgun generally used for? I've never actually used it. Is it mainly to do AoE chip damage? If so, isn't it not too useful without another effect-spreading Perk such as Fearsome or Crippling? And I don't think a tank has enough Perk spots to add one of them as well.

Handgonne provides high damage overall when spraying into enemy groups for the same reasoning that a Warscythe does. I do use Fearsome, but even without it you can still do good damage when shooting a bunch of dudes.

Without Xbow spec you can only shoot the Gonne once for battle, so it's sort of a tech option and you can carry something else instead if you want.

With Xbow Spec you have the option to use the Gonne multiple times if the field develops in such a way that it is good. It also ignores cover so it can be good against camps with walls. You can also carry a Xbow instead (preferably with Mastery) to have a longer range option than Throwing for the start of the battle or whenever that comes up. I find both the Xbow or the Handgonne to be good against Goblins so I like to pick up the Mastery.

Originally posted by Lampros:

One last thing: When I saw these builds when throwing weapons were first introduced, I recall some folks claiming that a hybrid front-line tank/thrower is not effective unless fielded in multiples, because having just 1 of these guys won't contribute much ranged damage and be less efficient as a tank. Is this still the case?

I tend to build dedicated super tanks to do my tanking duties and don't really build balanced tanks (ie tanks that can do offense) very often.

Your question is a bit weird to me based on my own playstyle because I build tanks to be tanks and I don't compare them to Throwers who I build to do damage and not be tanks. I don't think I need multiple Throwers for them to be good.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by turtle225:

Handgonne provides high damage overall when spraying into enemy groups for the same reasoning that a Warscythe does. I do use Fearsome, but even without it you can still do good damage when shooting a bunch of dudes.

Without Xbow spec you can only shoot the Gonne once for battle, so it's sort of a tech option and you can carry something else instead if you want.

With Xbow Spec you have the option to use the Gonne multiple times if the field develops in such a way that it is good. It also ignores cover so it can be good against camps with walls. You can also carry a Xbow instead (preferably with Mastery) to have a longer range option than Throwing for the start of the battle or whenever that comes up. I find both the Xbow or the Handgonne to be good against Goblins so I like to pick up the Mastery.

Since this is an experimental run, I will try the full handgonne approach then - with the crossbow mastery. Previously, I had avoided handgonnes, because they seem to be difficult to use without causing friendly fire. But if I am equipping them on front-liners, then that worry largely disappears.

Originally posted by turtle225:

I tend to build dedicated super tanks to do my tanking duties and don't really build balanced tanks (ie tanks that can do offense) very often.

Your question is a bit weird to me based on my own playstyle because I build tanks to be tanks and I don't compare them to Throwers who I build to do damage and not be tanks. I don't think I need multiple Throwers for them to be good.

Got it; I have been in the same boat, too. My tanks primarily tank. The reason I am trying to switch up a bit this run is, because I was hoping that the +40 stat boost from the Cultist Origin will enable me to do exotic things that I would never dream of on regular brothers! ;)