Which stats do I have to level up everytime?

[Kryndude]

Am I correct to assume that I want to level up melee skill and melee defense for melee characters, and ranged skill for ranged characters every opportunity I get? While spreading out rest of the points in HP, fatigue, resolve, ranged defense, and maybe initiative?

[Heron]

Generally, yes.

Pure tanks can skip melee attack and want more resolve and hp than others. Ranged defense can usually be ignored in my and many other's opinion. Initiative makes sense on dodge / overwhelm / fencing sword builds (they later take nimble, so prioritize hp on them too).

50+ resolve and 80+ hp are what I aim for on everyone.

There is a nimble vs battleforged meta. You generally take either one or the other. Nimble wants lots of HP, BF wants 80-90 hp and lots of fatigue to carry all that heavy armor. Colossus is often kind of mandatory to get there and a no brainer on nimble builds.

Pay close attention to your level 1 base stats, not only stars, when deciding what route to take.

There's more to it of course. Best read up some guides for detailed information, or find out what works for you yourself. ;)

[Uncle Khai]

For initiative build, I recommend you use combo two hand mace and qatal dagger! Better than fencing sword!
For ranged build separate two types!
->hybrid utility, use for every case, focus on rs, ms and fatigue
->marksman to Win fight ranger vs ranger, focus on rs, rd and initiative

When you level up, there have a case you will get low roll! At this point when you doesn’t see any stats better then this time increase HP, remember HP is a bonus not your main stats, even value over 100HP nimble still die easy! Remember

[hurdygurdyman]

FAT, FAT, FAT, and FAT.

All builds, all the time.

FAT enables everything.

No FAT? No attack, no defense, no movement, no stunts.

Always, always, always raise FAT.

[Hykal]

There's this build called a No FAT build. The name is misleading, it's actually more like 30 or so FAT (after armor). Basically you ditch FAT entirely, level everything else you want, give your bro a 2H mace and bonk away. As you recover 15 FAT every turn, you can get away with only a few levels of investment in FAT.

Just enough FAT to hit and move. I don't recommend it for beginners, but it's there.

[Heron]

Originally posted by hurdygurdyman:

FAT, FAT, FAT, and FAT.

All builds, all the time.

FAT enables everything.

No FAT? No attack, no defense, no movement, no stunts.

Always, always, always raise FAT.

Depends. Just to give an example that fatigue doesn't need to be leveled excessively on everyone:

Some recruits have great matk and mdef potential, but need a heavy investment into hp and resolve to become frontline worthy. With Swordmasters and Indebted that's often the case, for example. They can't level matk, mdef, resolve, hp and lots of fatigue on top. To salvage those bros I like to build them low fatigue battleforged.

This kind of build works with 25-35 fatigue after heavy armor because every non asthmatic bro has 15 fatigue regeneration per turn. They can only hit once per turn, but they hit hard with a heavy 2h weapon (a 2h mace / hammer / axe usually). That attack costs 12 fatigue with weapon mastery. As they also get pathfinder, a movement action on difficult terrain doesn't cost them more than 3 fatigue. With 15 fatigue regeneration per turn, they can take a step and swing their weapon no matter how exhausted they are because they work with the 15 fatigue everyone regenerates at the start of their turn. If they happen to have iron lungs (+3 fatigue regeneration) they can even swing a Mansplitter for 15 fatigue and stay fatigue neutral. Very useful build for those kind of recruits.

Another example would be many nimble builds because those don't lose as much fatigue to armor. They are better off focusing on hp if they're in the frontline as hp will be their primary source of tankiness alongside melee defense. They don't need to invest into fatigue as much to have a solid workable fatigue pool after armor (60-70 workable fatigue is fine on many builds). Some of those builds also want to level some initiative to better support dodge and overwhelm.

[suejak]

Yes, in some corners of the BB community (not here), "fatigue neutral" Quick Hands Battle Forged is considered the best build, or even the ONLY build by certain weirdos :D

I'm having trouble telling if this idea is covered by the above, but the key idea here is a 2h + pole weapon of that type (e.g. polemace) + Weapon Mastery + Pathfinder + heavy armour.

You don't really level fatigue for this build.

Here's a summary made by Sato for the Discord (with an edit or two by me right now for clarity):

Build: Fatigue-Neutral Fearsome (by Gravebees)

Link: http://www.bbplanner.xyz/?name=BF+Fearsome+Axe&perks=kA4AIAIY&gear=AAArAAAAAAAAA0AAAAAA

Leveling notes: The idea here is to eschew Fatigue and spend those rolls on other secondary stats. If you can hit 105-ish Fatigue before armour, then you level Melee Attack and Defense every level and can dump your extra rolls into patching Health and Resolve. Grave likes to hit 90+ HP and 50-ish Resolve, which I also think are pretty good targets.

Strategy notes: The idea with "Fatigue-Neutral" builds is to take advantage of Fatigue Recovery mechanics. Every turn you get a minimum of 15 Fatigue to work with. With a weapon mastery, attacks cost 12 Fatigue, and with Pathfinder moving 1 tile usually takes at most 3 Fatigue, so every turn you can always move and swing - as such, you can make Fatigue a dump stat and just load up on the heaviest armor you want. Quick Hands and a pole-weapon for your chosen mastery gives you even more flexibility. Grave likes Barbarian two handed axes for their synergy with Fearsome, but you can also do this with Two Handed Flanged Maces/Polemaces and Two Handed Hammers/Polehammers.

[Kryndude]

Thank you everyone for participating in the discussion. I'd like to ask a more specific question. If you had to assign weight value to each stat according to its importance in melee and ranged characters, how would you rate them? For example, I currently have in my calculator 200% for skill and defense, 100% for hp, fatigue, resolve, and finally 0% initiative for melee and 50% for ranged. Would that be a good rough evaluation of initial character stat?

[suejak]

I think your approach is fundamentally flawed because you're trying to apply generalizations to a game about particulars. Even guys lacking skill or defense can be very useful with the right perks and roles.

However, 200% for skill and melee defense is reasonable. 100% for HP is reasonable. The rest is sketchy. Fatigue is useful but can be ignored completely. Resolve is almost always patchable unless truly abysmal, as there are lots of sources of resolve. Initiative is useful but can be ignored completely on both melee and ranged.

I'd recommend keeping a close eye on skill, melee defense, and HP, and being more flexible on the rest.

[Heron]

Originally posted by Kryndude:

Thank you everyone for participating in the discussion. I'd like to ask a more specific question. If you had to assign weight value to each stat according to its importance in melee and ranged characters, how would you rate them? For example, I currently have in my calculator 200% for skill and defense, 100% for hp, fatigue, resolve, and finally 0% initiative for melee and 50% for ranged. Would that be a good rough evaluation of initial character stat?

That depends entirely on the base stats, the perks you take, the equipment of the brother, what actions you plan to perform with him and his position on the battlefield.

[Kryndude]

Originally posted by suejak:

I think your approach is fundamentally flawed because you're trying to apply generalizations to a game about particulars. Even guys lacking skill or defense can be very useful with the right perks and roles.

However, 200% for skill and melee defense is reasonable. 100% for HP is reasonable. The rest is sketchy. Fatigue is useful but can be ignored completely. Resolve is almost always patchable unless truly abysmal, as there are lots of sources of resolve. Initiative is useful but can be ignored completely on both melee and ranged.

I'd recommend keeping a close eye on skill, melee defense, and HP, and being more flexible on the rest.

Thank you, I understand the limitations of my approach, but I'd like to have at least some idea of how valuable a bro is when he's about to die, without having to access the character screen, so I can easily decide how much I want to commit to saving him. I'll adjust fatigue to 75% and resolve to 50% based on your feedback.

[Heron]

Originally posted by Kryndude:

Thank you, I understand the limitations of my approach, but I'd like to have at least some idea of how valuable a bro is when he's about to die, without having to access the character screen, so I can easily decide how much I want to commit to saving him. I'll adjust fatigue to 75% and resolve to 50% based on your feedback.

If you want to deal in generalizations:
- anyone who can reach 85+ melee attack and 30+ melee defense at level 11 is highly valuable no matter the rest of his stats
- anyone who can reach 90+ matk is useful as a backliner
- anyone who can reach 90+ ranged attack is highly valuable as a ranged dude
- for the banner sergeant role, anyone who can reach 90+ resolve wihout equipment is highly valuable
- for pure tanks, anyone who can reach 40+ melee defense without shield and at least 60 resolve with iron mind is highly valuable

You can calculate the expected stats at level 11 if you level the stat every single time with this formula for mdef, matk and ratk:

Base stats + 20 + (number of stars * 5)

The gifted perk, another level of max 2 star rolls, is not factored in here.

Then it's just a matter of adapting the rest of your build to the other base stats and star distribution.

Edit: For ratk it's actually not +20 but +25 30 in the formula.

[Kryndude]

Originally posted by Heron:

Originally posted by Kryndude:

Thank you, I understand the limitations of my approach, but I'd like to have at least some idea of how valuable a bro is when he's about to die, without having to access the character screen, so I can easily decide how much I want to commit to saving him. I'll adjust fatigue to 75% and resolve to 50% based on your feedback.

If you want to deal in generalizations, anyone who can reach 80+ melee attack and 30+ melee defense at level 11 is highly valuable no matter the rest of his stats. Anyone who can reach 90+ matk is useful as a backliner. Anyone who can reach 90+ ranged attack is highly valuable as a ranged dude. For the banner sergeant role, anyone who can reach 90+ resolve wihout equipment is highly valuable. For pure tanks, anyone who can reach 40+ melee defense without shield and at least 60 resolve with iron mind shield is highly valuable.

You can calculate the expected stats at level 11 if you level the stat every single time with this formula for mdef, matk and ratk:

Base stats + 20 + (number of stars * 5)

Thank you, that helps a lot! I don't intend to consider these numbers absolute, it's just a fun little mini-game I play (I name the low stat bros 'fodder' and higher ones whatever role I feel like giving them).

I think I'll give these modifiers for melee stats.
matk 300%
mdef 200%
hp 100%
fatigue, resolve 50%
rdef, initiative 20%

[Heron]

Originally posted by Kryndude:

I think I'll give these modifiers for melee stats.
matk 300%
mdef 200%
hp 100%
fatigue, resolve 50%
rdef, initiative 20%

Better swap the matk and mdef modifiers around for frontliners if you absolutely have to think in those categories.^^

Mdef is generally their most important stat, even on damage dealers because it allows them to ditch the shield and go 2h / duelist.

[Kryndude]

Originally posted by Heron:

Originally posted by Kryndude:

I think I'll give these modifiers for melee stats.
matk 300%
mdef 200%
hp 100%
fatigue, resolve 50%
rdef, initiative 20%

Better swap the matk and mdef modifiers around for frontliners if you absolutely have to think in those categories.^^

Mdef is generally their most important stat, even on damage dealers because it allows them to ditch the shield and go 2h / duelist.

I'll divide categories into three; tank, melee dps, ranged dps. Thank you!

[Heron]

Based on the list you put up before deleting it:^^

Tanks can scale back the matk to 20 %. xD
Would also up hp to 150% and resolve and fatigue to 100%. If it's a dodge tank initiative 150%.

Melee dps frontliner: mdef 300%, matk 200%, hp 100%, resolve 50%, fatigue anywhere from 10% - 200%, initiative on non overwhelm / dodge 0 %, else 50%.

Melee dps backliner: mdef 50%, matk 300%, hp 75%, resolve 30%, fatigue 130%, initiative 100% if overwhelm.

Ranged dps: ratk 300%, rdef 0 %, mdef 50% hp 100 % (better just tank those ranged shots with nimble and expect that their true chance of dieing will be in unplanned melee engagements), fatigue 150 % (ranged is fatigue intensive), resolve 30%, initiative 100% (they profit a lot from going first)