Refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes?

[Shammy]

My grandfather was killed by Stalin's people. He was a civil defense lawyer in Ukraine. My grandmother and my mother were forced to flee.
I want to know what genius decided to make that description.
It's insulting and it's propaganda.

[suejak]

Refugees of the refugee background don't represent "all" refugees, just like deserters of the deserter background don't represent "all" deserters. Rather, refugees in the game represent just the subgroup of people who didn't have many skills and chose to run away rather than fight, because they lacked conviction -- not necessarily because they're cowards, but because they just didn't want to fight for whatever reason. For example, a single father with a son who didn't want to leave his son without a parent might have run away to protect his children, and running itself may have been an act of bravery. Simply lacking conviction to fight does not imply cowardice.

Similarly, obviously some deserters are very brave people, but the background only represents the subset that are cowards or just not interested in fighting for others. Note that they are not inherently cowards, either, just not especially interested in laying down their lives for a mercenary company.

So:

1) The background represents just a subset of refugees, not all refugees.

2) Lacking resolve to fight does not mean cowardice.

You will find "refugees" with more conviction to fight among other backgrounds, if you read their stories. These people are not classified as "refugees" because they DO have the conviction to fight, and moreover because they have fighting skills or something else that's relevant.

For example, if you read the background texts, there is a beast slayer who is essentially a refugee from a town devoured by spiders. He ran from the town, but he vowed revenge and became a beast slayer. Beast slayers have great resolve. He obviously has the conviction to fight, and he's relatively good at it. That's why he's called a beast slayer rather than a refugee.

The talents (stars) system is also relevant here. Even if someone falls into the "refugee" category in the game and ran away out of lack of conviction, they may get 3 resolve stars. This represents a man who lacked conviction and ran away, but he has massive potential to grow into a highly dedicated soldier with tremendous conviction to fight. This is a growth story, of a man who ran for his own reasons at the time but is now willing to die for the cause (your mercenary company, or whatever it's fighting for). Note that resolve here is not really bravery so much as willingness to die for a specific cause: for your mercenary company.

[anaphylactic god]

are we really having this discussion right now ?
what connection Soviet repression have with dispalced people from middle ages ?
i guess people back then were really robust enough to survive a few cuts or crossbow bolts and fend off some brigands attack with a spoon, its not like their only choice was to run away, right ?
I guess even if they had to run leaving their every posession behind and after a few weeks of marching with little rest and food they still should be strong enough to stop cavalry charge dead with their sheer power of will.

[Shammy]

Impressionable children and adults only see "Refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes". The words speak for themselves. They're insulting, and they're propaganda.
It doesn't say "some", it doesn't address the historical date, it just says "Refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes".
That needs to be reworded.

[ridenation]

who cares

[Flharfh]

I think you are taking this waaay too seriously bro

[Eranak]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say your grandmother and mother didn't become mercenaries in low fantasy germany and murder giant spiders and the living dead. If that's wrong and they did run around with two handed claymores and one handed maces, and shanked the reanimated corpse of Julius Ceasar or hunted dire wolves in the forests of Schwarzwald or whatever, then yeah in that case they absolutely lacked the conviction to stay and fight for their homes.

[Santo]

Hey Shammy. Sorry for what happened to your family, but this game has absolutely no connection with that situation, nor it has to be read in any way as any political or historical statement. Impressionable children are irrelevant because it is a game very much for adults. I would say you might be overthinking it. As Suejak points, even not considering the game's context and world, lacking conviction does not equal lacking bravery or strength, just not having been convinced to fight for whatever reasons. Your point is made, though.

To the rest: leave the matter here, because it's obviously a sensitive topic and it won't go nowhere but toxic. You won't convince him, and mocking other people's opinions, regardless of how much you disagree with it, is not cool. It's actually possible to see someone you think is wrong and just let it pass without trying to show them you know better.

[Franz]

One shouldn't take flavour text in a videogame as a source of serious historical/sociopolitical commentary.
Impressionable youth who don't know that should be able to rely on adults who do to put everything in the right framework.

[Shammy]

Originally posted by Santo:

Hey Shammy. Sorry for what happened to your family, but this game has absolutely no connection with that situation, nor it has to be read in any way as any political or historical statement. Impressionable children are irrelevant because it is a game very much for adults. I would say you might be overthinking it. As Suejak points, even not considering the game's context and world, lacking conviction does not equal lacking bravery or strength, just not having been convinced to fight for whatever reasons. Your point is made, though.

To the rest: leave the matter here, because it's obviously a sensitive topic and it won't go nowhere but toxic. You won't convince him, and mocking other people's opinions, regardless of how much you disagree with it, is not cool. It's actually possible to see someone you think is wrong and just let it pass without trying to show them you know better.

The problem is that it IS a political statement, whether it was intended to be or not. It derides refugees. We have issues with that in 2020, don't we? The developers need to be made aware of this and they need to reword "Refugees lack the conviction to fight for their homes". That sounds awful. It's a blunder. It insults more people than one may imagine.
Thank you for responding.

[Anarchist Wolf]

Simply let it be , Santo nailed in this case as well , its a sensitive topic for him and as much as we like to have a conversation and exchange opinions and reasoning when it matters around this forum , seems like nobody will change his/her mind ...2020.. how dare i point out only 2 genders .. im i right tsss? What we all know and like about this team and game, at least one of the things , is that they arent political neither pander anybody including cringe groups so i see no correlation at all althou il have to say that i allways saw that as purely lore mistake you coud say that coud have been better phrased as :Refugees THAT* lack the conviction to fight for their homes , but ofc nothing that really needs correction for any other reason .

Wish you all a good day ofc that includes op and dont forget to stay safe out there

*Slowly walks away as theres nothing to see here *

Edit. Psdt. To Blank*,as much as you are giving somewhat good examples once i readed your whole statement realised how much truth was in the moderator message , seems didnt take long till somebody gotten somewhat toxic, trie to control your temper in that regard , walkin on a fine line there , you shoudnt scalate your tone , aditionally that only diminish your reasoning , pretty sure you are aware

[The Duck Knight]

people these days are way to easy offended.

[Old Dirty Bingo Caller]

Originally posted by The Duck Knight:

people these days are way to easy offended.

Ye, and also the flavour text is spot on.

[Santo]

I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to start a fight.

[L V X]

Thinking man can't get offended.

[The Duck Knight]

Originally posted by Santo:

I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to start a fight.

You...expect people to not start fights in an online forum?