Davkul Origin questions

[Lampros]

I am thinking of playing this Origin for the next playthrough, because people seem to like it. But the Wiki description does not always seem to be clear or thorough. In particular, I have three questions:

1. Who are the ones being sacrificed - anyone or only non-Cultists (just as in the Davkul armor Event)?

2. If only non-Cultists are sacrificed, then what happens if you never recruit non-Cultists after a certain juncture?

3. Can Traits such as Prophet or Chosen be given to potentially every member of the team? Or they restricted to one or other limited numbers?

Thanks in advance.

Addendum: Also, besides the Origin-unique Traits, what is really so good about this Origin?

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Yes, you can only have one but you always can have one :)

Perfect - thanks!

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Like I said, it depend. The sacrifice has a high chance to trigger, but each fact you add that can provide an event will possibly delay it. In my exemple with 60 days without sacrifice, it was the noble war which add a bunch of possible events.

That's why, on the contrary, i would suggest to avoid carry on armors and helmets which can trigger the event to craft a leather cultist armor or helmet, because it can take the place of a sacrifice or a conversion. And these piece of armor aren't wanted because after day 20, you've got a bunch of raider armors which are better.

You should avoid everything that you don't need and that can trigger another event then the two you really interest in.

And if sacrifice can take longer, you should always assume it would trigger after 21 days...it'll be frustrating if you are in the wilderness, having a hedge knight waiting to be convert and the sacrifice happens and you didn't have a happy powder and the first tavern is too far away.

Wait, why would you want sacrifices?! Do they give benefits other than killing off 3 of your men?

[Franz]

Sacrifices have a chance of making your cultists gain a level of the davkul trait, you do want them!
In my current campaign I had 3 sacrifices by day 100, one leather armor event and three conversions.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Franz:

Sacrifices have a chance of making your cultists gain a level of the davkul trait, you do want them!
In my current campaign I had 3 sacrifices by day 100, one leather armor event and three conversions.

Ah, ok! I thought they were separate Events! ;)

[Eraziel]

Davkul cult origin is a matter of conversions of good brothers and sacrifices of garbage guys for Davkul traits. You don't want others events !

The differents training events (farmer trick, combat drill, brawler teach, etc) can't be gain effectively because farmers and brawlers can be convert, high level cultist can't give combat drill and the combat backgrounds can't be keep consistenly without happy powder (And necrosavants are really a pain in the a** for cultists because most of yours guys for the 200 firsts days will be average guys with nimble...) and if they are dumb, they are going to be convert.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Davkul cult origin is a matter of conversions of good brothers and sacrifices of garbage guys for Davkul traits. You don't want others events !

The differents training events (farmer trick, combat drill, brawler teach, etc) can't be gain effectively because farmers and brawlers can be convert, high level cultist can't give combat drill and the combat backgrounds can't be keep consistenly without happy powder (And necrosavants are really a pain in the a** for cultists because most of yours guys for the 200 firsts days will be average guys with nimble...) and if they are dumb, they are going to be convert.

Combat Drill can be consistent with Davkul origin though. Just sit the Cultists in reserve for a long time.

Your post prompts me to ask another question: Can you refuse conversion - just as in a normal Origin playthrough?

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Davkul cult origin is a matter of conversions of good brothers and sacrifices of garbage guys for Davkul traits. You don't want others events !

The differents training events (farmer trick, combat drill, brawler teach, etc) can't be gain effectively because farmers and brawlers can be convert, high level cultist can't give combat drill and the combat backgrounds can't be keep consistenly without happy powder (And necrosavants are really a pain in the a** for cultists because most of yours guys for the 200 firsts days will be average guys with nimble...) and if they are dumb, they are going to be convert.

Combat Drill can be consistent with Davkul origin though. Just sit the Cultists in reserve for a long time.

Your post prompts me to ask another question: Can you refuse conversion - just as in a normal Origin playthrough?

Conversions can be refused, although you'd rarely want to do so - if a unit is sacrifice fodder, you'd preder it to be a class that can't be converted in the first place, and if it isn't fodder, you'd probably want it to convert, since the cultist upgrades are far more powerful and consistent than a few random +1s and +2s that other backgrounds give every year or so, and additionally, each non-cultist (and non-indebted since they can't run) is a liability in the event of a sacrifice, since they might abscond after the time and effort invested in them.

[Eraziel]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Combat Drill can be consistent with Davkul origin though. Just sit the Cultists in reserve for a long time.

Yes but you need happy powder to keep your trainer, which is not easy to gain with cultists early on. And you need 3 fodders to secure the sacrifice. If you are also seating low level cultists in your reserve, you don't have a really large combat team, and cultists team aren't the better early on.

Originally posted by Lampros:

Your post prompts me to ask another question: Can you refuse conversion - just as in a normal Origin playthrough?

Yes you can, but why would you refuse ? Refusing will delay the progression of the Davkul trait and accepting will give +2 resolve to the converter. And you have the risk of loosing the non converted guy with the sacrifice event.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Yes but you need happy powder to keep your trainer, which is not easy to gain with cultists early on. And you need 3 fodders to secure the sacrifice. If you are also seating low level cultists in your reserve, you don't have a really large combat team, and cultists team aren't the better early on.

Good point. Where do I find Necrosavants most frequently any ways? Just hit upon any undead lairs or roving groups and pray? I still don't see them often even on day 1700 days-plus! ;(

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Eraziel:

Originally posted by Lampros:

So if you the Prophet slot is free, then I'd assume you can have another one eventually? Sorry if this is obvious, but I just want to be 100 percent sure before making a mistake I will regret mid-game! ;)

Yes, you can only have one but you always can have one :)

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

It could be longer, even that estimation in my experience is pretty low. I ussually see it closer to every 30-50.

To put into comparison, my current Davkul band is around day 90, and only recently had the the second sacrifice on day 87 (I think it was at least, it might have been 82 or 83, it was 80 something). First sacrifice was around day 35.

So it is quite easy to pass day 100, and only have had 2 sacrifices. Fortunately there are a few other cult events that can happen as well.

Wandering cultists, may simply join up with the band randomly. Its definitely helpful, if you concern yourself less about the sacrifice losses, or losses in general.

Also there is the crafting of cultist hoods or armor, by your cultists from any leather, padded, etc. or hoods, anketons, etc. in your inventory. As cultists, it is suggested to hold onto those 40-80 dur armors, and 20-50 hoods and helms, for your cultists to craft into the 88dur armor and the 60 dur hood. At least, if your really committed to usage of cult gear due to role play reasons, or until your committing some to actual heavier armors.

Like I said, it depend. The sacrifice has a high chance to trigger, but each fact you add that can provide an event will possibly delay it. In my exemple with 60 days without sacrifice, it was the noble war which add a bunch of possible events.

That's why, on the contrary, i would suggest to avoid carry on armors and helmets which can trigger the event to craft a leather cultist armor or helmet, because it can take the place of a sacrifice or a conversion. And these piece of armor aren't wanted because after day 20, you've got a bunch of raider armors which are better.

You should avoid everything that you don't need and that can trigger another event then the two you really interest in.

And if sacrifice can take longer, you should always assume it would trigger after 21 days...it'll be frustrating if you are in the wilderness, having a hedge knight waiting to be convert and the sacrifice happens and you didn't have a happy powder and the first tavern is too far away.

And unfortunatly, for better statistics, you need more data. I almost only play cultist runs but i don't have enough feed back to do consistent statistics.

Ah but to be fair, I said to do that, IF TRULY COMMITTED to role play as cult. Do not ignore the last sentence of that paragraph.

Switching to raider gear, or your lesser chainmails, I see as breaking from cult role play, since you are skipping over, and not using CULT gear. This is stepping from cult role play, to general play with cult origin. At least from my point of view. How can you say you role play as cult, if you skip over and avoid using cult gear?

Instead, to truly role play as cult, you use the cult hoods and armor, and simply use more of those metal plates, joint covers and other purchasable armor attachments, to make that cult armor more comparable to your mid level chain mails.

There is a lot of difference between playing the same way every time, and playing each origin in its own unique style.

[KracKils]

This thread is really impressive and shows the depth of this game.

[Franz]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Instead, to truly role play as cult, you use the cult hoods and armor, and simply use more of those metal plates, joint covers and other purchasable armor attachments, to make that cult armor more comparable to your mid level chain mails.

I'd be so happy if the events gave you cultist armor attachments instead.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by Franz:

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

Instead, to truly role play as cult, you use the cult hoods and armor, and simply use more of those metal plates, joint covers and other purchasable armor attachments, to make that cult armor more comparable to your mid level chain mails.

I'd be so happy if the events gave you cultist armor attachments instead.

Oh so would I. Of course if we made a wishlist of events and things added specifically for cult, then I could make one large list.

Cultist specific attachments could certainly add some flavor.

Some cult specific or other midrange armors would be nice. For now I tend to fill that spot with cult leather armor with metal plates (+40 dur to the 88, puts it comparable to southern chainmail.), with the spot between that and skinned from a brother davkul armor with the decayed mails of armored weirdgangers and undead heros.

I feel like that mixing in of certain undead gear, works well to keep that dark, devilish feel, a death worshiping cult should have. (this purely from roleplay, not what is best statistically perspective, and a lack of actual cult options at this point in what would be considered gear tiers.)

A cult specific retinue choice. I suggest some sort of dark seer or effigy (in place of a actual person retinue), which has a function similar to agent, but involving cultist processions. Nothing too fancy, but being able to know where the cultists are, can really help recruiting, much more than an actual recruiter (since you specifically want more cultists). (on this subject, I think all origins should have a unique to them retinue option.)

Just generally, more options to be evil. For example, the noble's son attacked by hexen situation. Wouldn't it be wonderful, if after dealing with the hexen, you had the option to sacrifice that nobleman's son to Davkul instead? (In which case, the sacrifice of noble blood, should give a better chance than normal for buff.)

All these suggestions, can be summed up as a bit deeper role play on cult.

[Krick]

I downloaded one of filthyrobots mods, Improved Cultists (lowers conversion cd, improves chances for upgrades. makes sac more likely (20 day cd not 21 for easier tracking)

not sure how much it improves the devotion chance, but I would defitenly consider giving the mod a try, even for a first cultist run

without it you can end up having devotion level 1 cultist that's been in your company well over 300 days.
its a shame how the base game handles the cultist event, with it triggering around 30 to 70 days and then having only 50% chance to increase devotion level on cultist brothers

its found here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X1U9i8Bug6Mvj3lUfP45lFu6HTZMDXtAEZaq5iP0mlA/edit
go to the google download top link
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1XykisHqU1H0fw5J8-7CKEu5aFfzebF4n

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Krick:

I downloaded one of filthyrobots mods, Improved Cultists (lowers conversion cd, improves chances for upgrades. makes sac more likely (20 day cd not 21 for easier tracking)

not sure how much it improves the devotion chance, but I would defitenly consider giving the mod a try, even for a first cultist run

without it you can end up having devotion level 1 cultist that's been in your company well over 300 days.
its a shame how the base game handles the cultist event, with it triggering around 30 to 70 days and then having only 50% chance to increase devotion level on cultist brothers

its found here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1X1U9i8Bug6Mvj3lUfP45lFu6HTZMDXtAEZaq5iP0mlA/edit
go to the google download top link
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1XykisHqU1H0fw5J8-7CKEu5aFfzebF4n

Why the hell doesn't he give links for individual mods? I don't want to download all of them together.

[Krick]

if you go here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1XykisHqU1H0fw5J8-7CKEu5aFfzebF4n
you can download the mod cultist event fix on its own by right clicking it, should be a download option then

edit: oh yere it needs mood hooks, either get it from the google drive or from nexus, which has a newer version, im using the nexus mod hooks
https://www.nexusmods.com/battlebrothers/mods/42