Best and worse background

[Dermenore]

What background are the best for you? What background do you think are the worse (aka: you never take them)?
I would appreciate if you detail for the early, mid and late game. I don't think you take the same background at day 5 than as day 100.
I look in the "attribute average" on the wiki, with it "rating". It's interesting but it don't take into acount event, cost or match with build. For example, do you really think that thief are more usefull than milita or lumberjack?

[nightworg]

Originally posted by Black Goat:

I don't think anyone has mentioned mason at all good or bad, any reasons why? Just curious because I hired a good one in my current game, mainly due to talents though not background.

I've also been keeping an eye on peddlers after several people said they liked them and I've seen a few with starting mdef of 10/12 which i guess is nothing to sneer at for the early game.

I might try some in future runs but I generally don't like to hire guys I feel won't be at least OK in the later game if they survive (they never do anyway lol).

Thief are really good early. They can start with 13 Mdef and 120 ini. If they role close to that you can have a pretty good tank at level 3 with + 40 Mdef.

[Hairy Coo]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Hairy Coo:

Or...dont handicap yourself maybe and just beat it with 12?:) play as you like ofc.

I was responding to your accusation of exploit - which implies some sort of "cheating" for "easy mode win." It's not easy.

I am not even sure whether this style of play is unintended by devs; there were threads when Events were introduces where devs discussed that lower tier Backgrounds were valuable precisely because these training Events are repeatable.

Like I said, play however you like. The last thing I say on this matter is about devs intentions since you've mentioned it - they literally spell it out at the end of each crisis that BB is meant to be repeatable and play for 1-2 crisises (read day 150-200 days). But whatever rocks your boat.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Hairy Coo:

The last thing I say on this matter is about devs intentions since you've mentioned it - they literally spell it out at the end of each crisis that BB is meant to be repeatable and play for 1-2 crisises (read day 150-200 days).

That ship obviously sailed a long time ago.

[Antifringe]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Antifringe:

People really like monks, but I think they're bad. People massively overvalue events.

I cannot agree, as my playthroughs revolve entirely around Events. I run around with 5-6 guys fighting for the first 500 or so days of my Lone Wolf playthroughs - with 6-7 guys sitting in reserve for Combat Drill, Brawler Teaches, Farmer Old Tricks, etc. When they are done, they all have 70-plus Melee or the like. It may be too tedious (and at times difficult) for most people, but at that stage you have Hedge Knights for the price of Farmhands, and a mechanic that creates this outcome is not value-less.

TLDR: Events are so powerful that it is possible to make them the centerpiece in your campaign.

Oh, well if you're idling until day 500, then yeah, events are good. That was kind of beyond my imagination. I usually quit around day 90-120. The opportunity cost of doing that versus just earning money those 500 days is staggering, but there's no wrong way to have fun.

Originally posted by Black Goat:

I don't think anyone has mentioned mason at all good or bad, any reasons why? Just curious because I hired a good one in my current game, mainly due to talents though not background.

Same reason no one brought up the apprentice. Masons are just very average. They're fine as space fillers, and with the right rolls, they can be good. But you'd never hire a mason when shopping for a specific role, unless you're just casting a wide net.



Different topic:

Both Turtle and I have eluded to low stam builds for guys like Swordmasters or Miners. I thought I'd get into that a bit more.

The idea is that you 100% ignore stamina as a stat and just slap the heaviest armor possible on the guy. You get 15 stamina back every turn, which is enough to move or attack (but not both). The lowest average stamina is 82.5, and the heaviest armor set is -64, so almost anyone can do this and still have the minimum 15 stamina left over.

You give him a 2-H mace, because it's the best vanilla attack in the game. Points go into health, defense, and attack. Hell, you can even level ranged defense, you're going to have points to burn. The result is a guy with Battleforged that has well over 100 health, good melee defense and good melee attack. That's normally hard to do, because BF bros need to pour stats into stamina.

Turtle mentioned keeping a polearm to add flexibility, and you can do that if you can budget the extra stamina for both the polearm storage and the 3 stam cost of swapping.

Is it good? It's... narrow. But it squeezes a lot of value out of a dude that you would probably otherwise not use.

[laveley]

Peddlers are a good cheap background that usually people dont mention.

They can have 12 base melee def (almost as good as a thief) and are pretty common/cheap as hell so you can fish a lot for good tanks.

In my current run i have 2 peddlers tanks, one with 8 base mdef and 3 talents and another which rolled for 12 base and 2 talents.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Antifringe:

Originally posted by Lampros:

I cannot agree, as my playthroughs revolve entirely around Events. I run around with 5-6 guys fighting for the first 500 or so days of my Lone Wolf playthroughs - with 6-7 guys sitting in reserve for Combat Drill, Brawler Teaches, Farmer Old Tricks, etc. When they are done, they all have 70-plus Melee or the like. It may be too tedious (and at times difficult) for most people, but at that stage you have Hedge Knights for the price of Farmhands, and a mechanic that creates this outcome is not value-less.

TLDR: Events are so powerful that it is possible to make them the centerpiece in your campaign.

Oh, well if you're idling until day 500, then yeah, events are good. That was kind of beyond my imagination. I usually quit around day 90-120. The opportunity cost of doing that versus just earning money those 500 days is staggering, but there's no wrong way to have fun.

Well, I thought I was extreme in pushing an Events-driven strategy; but someone posted that they sat people in reserve for over 1200 days. That blew even my mind! ;)

I think the reason I play the way I do is that I am a peculiar blend of min-maxer and role-player as a gamer. On the one hand, the min-maxer in me wants to literally field the most over-powered line-up possible, squeezing every ounce of Melee Attack or Fatigue out of every brother. In this context, I learned I cannot run a late-game company with all full Hedge Knights/Sellswords end game due to economic scarcity in this game. But if I run an all Farmhands (appropriated boosted by Events), then it is practicable. On the other hand, the role-player in me gets attached to my crew, and I do not want playthroughs to end. So I typically continue to play indefinitely, as long as I survive.

But again, as I've written in the past, Event-driven stat-boosting does not necessarily need the extremes I go to pay off. That is, you don't need to sit people in reserve for 500 days - and certainly not 1200 days. 250 days will likely get you 3 Combat Drills and 1 Farmer Old Tricks - and 1 Brawler Teaches (the latter is less reliable, depending on how many recruits are sitting). That's already on average 10 stat points or so. In short, that already catapults a Farmhand stat line to probably above any other melee character except a Hedge Knight.

[Whatever100500]

Thieves have 1 drawback though - spammy 'Player Plays Dice' event clogs up the event queue. Though i suppose this could be seen as positive in a company of Drunkards, for example.

[laveley]

Originally posted by Black Goat:

Originally posted by laveley:

Peddlers are a good cheap background that usually people dont mention.

They can have 12 base melee def (almost as good as a thief) and are pretty common/cheap as hell so you can fish a lot for good tanks.

In my current run i have 2 peddlers tanks, one with 8 base mdef and 3 talents and another which rolled for 12 base and 2 talents.

ah yeah thief is my favorite early tank background, some good events come with them too.

This thread also makes more sense now that I remember in vanilla you hire bros almost blindly, I'm kinda cheating with a mod that shows starting stat rolls vs their max and some obvious traits before hiring.

It is easy playing this way to form a strong opinion on certain backgrounds when I see how often their rolls are low and can't be higher.

Yeah, they are good for the fishing, i just checked and the one which rolled for 12 is actually the one who has the 12 base. Look at this guy:

https://ibb.co/jJ6spCP

I actually like craven, i'm pumping mdef, fat and resolve every lvl now and i expect him to reach 50 resolve which is my minimum for frontliners (i always use the banner), so thanks to craven i can leave him at the reserve late game without suffering the morale penalty.

The other one i made a nimble-initiative-overwhelm tank.

[SwampDragon]

Originally posted by Dermenore:

I am still in the doubt about [...] retired soldier

Personally, I like Retired Soldier background because they are reliable - you get what you pay for. Great att and def, solid resolve, at the expense of fat and HP. They make very good nimble front liners with stars in the right place (HP). Most importantly, every company needs a grizzled old veteran to constantly remind everyone how good they've got it, and how much worse it was in the old days.

I'll pick one up around the time I am looking for some experience in my front my line, but I'm not ready to splash a lot of cash. They make good billmen and sometimes bannermen too of course.


[Some people have mentioned they play for many hundreds of days, which changes the question somewhat. My end game is usually after first or second crisis. E/E/L strict-Ironman. Reliable hires that can be dropped in as replacements without too much babysitting are valuable. But Retired Soldiers are not really min/max material.]

[Cat®]

Obviously if you are playing a long game of year or more you generally just want as many different backgrounds as possible to keep the events exciting. I do think backgrounds vary greatly in value based on this decision. For example a cultist is overall a liability I feel when you play
<200 day games, because odds are you will never see a real benefit from them. Whereas Sellswords, Swordmasters, and Farmers suddenly go from "pretty alright" to "amazing".

Dare I say this game is one of those good ones where everything has its place to shine and nothing ever feels superfluous and weak? No, I do not. But I'll think it privately in my own head.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by turtle225:

I could argue that Swordmaster is the best background in the game, but the community will have a fit, and I don't really want to argue about it.

So instead I'll just say that Swordmasters are great, they are just limited on which build they can support due to low Fatigue. I am always excited to hire one each campaign (if I even find one). Old can be cured by Waterskin, so I'm not concerned about it.

Originally posted by Antifringe:

People massively overvalue events.

Agree with this.

Originally posted by Hairy Coo:

This. Farming events for 500days sounds like an exploit to me imo. Legit as it is, still its taking advantage of RNG which you beat by giving it time to roll.

You guys have inspired me to write a mini-guide so I can at least hack away some of the misconception regarding this strategy - as well as better explain for the newer players regarding the what/why/how! ;)

[Dermenore]

Originally posted by Lampros:

[...]

Different topic:

Both Turtle and I have eluded to low stam builds for guys like Swordmasters or Miners. I thought I'd get into that a bit more.

The idea is that you 100% ignore stamina as a stat and just slap the heaviest armor possible on the guy. You get 15 stamina back every turn, which is enough to move or attack (but not both). The lowest average stamina is 82.5, and the heaviest armor set is -64, so almost anyone can do this and still have the minimum 15 stamina left over.

You give him a 2-H mace, because it's the best vanilla attack in the game. Points go into health, defense, and attack. Hell, you can even level ranged defense, you're going to have points to burn. The result is a guy with Battleforged that has well over 100 health, good melee defense and good melee attack. That's normally hard to do, because BF bros need to pour stats into stamina.

Turtle mentioned keeping a polearm to add flexibility, and you can do that if you can budget the extra stamina for both the polearm storage and the 3 stam cost of swapping.

Is it good? It's... narrow. But it squeezes a lot of value out of a dude that you would probably otherwise not use.

That interesting. Do you think it's better than an "roleplay" build, with hight init, dodge, fencing sword and nimble?

[MagisterTenebris]

I love my Slaves in lone wolf
Get 11 and you have a no cost Meat wall to savely level your Headge and when you got enough money buy the next End game background +revill your Meatwall

Actually one of those is now my Sergeant after max roll and 3-4 +5 in res (if I remember it I'll show his lvl 12 ass)

[Estieukua]

7 Sep, 2020