Fooking Goblins.

[Caustic Colt]

Is it me or are goblins super OP? One of the waiting screens even says theat they are no match for an adault human physically. But whenever they engage in cqc thier halberdier and sword units hit like Mac Trucks. Like damn, id rather fight orc mauraders then goblins.

[Kernest]

I also loathe Goblins, and consider them the most difficult enemy, but that's because I build my brothers in a specific way, which makes them great at dealing with anything in melee, but weak to ranged attacks, so Ambushers are the bane of my existence.

I never considered their swords or pike to be any trouble, mostly again because you can't be troubled by what doesn't hit you, and they indeed are exceptionally fragile, weak armour and low hit points.

[Astralflame]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Ambushers are the bane of my existence.

I never considered their swords or pike to be any trouble, mostly again because you can't be troubled by what doesn't hit you, and they indeed are exceptionally fragile, weak armour and low hit points.

Their ambushers feel broken to me, cause they bypass armor and the poison makes your guys near useless when you are being poked to death by the goblins high accuracy weapons.

[Trappist]

Haha Gobs are by far the worst enemy to me. Particularly late game, i recently got done in by 22 Gobs: Ambushers, Skirmishers and 2 shamans. Between nets; vines and poison i could get close to them, and when i did it was armour bypassing shank time haha. Late game is not very well balanced in my opinion but big Goblin packs are the worst.

My squad is good for raiders; undead and orcs, but not Gobs guess i need some adreneline mercs to close the distance fast.

[batteran]

Originally posted by Kernest:

I also loathe Goblins, and consider them the most difficult enemy, but that's because I build my brothers in a specific way, which makes them great at dealing with anything in melee, but weak to ranged attacks, so Ambushers are the bane of my existence.

Late game, experienced melee specialists can laught at goblins too: tin can armor and battleforged keep theses arrows at bay, and good melee defense + colossus mean you can sustain the pair of hits that bypass armor.

[The Pollie]

Goblins are cancer.

[The Duck Knight]

as someone who plays a very defensiv build (frontrow heavy armor+ 1H and Shield), I don't see the problem.
Just try to go against gobbos during the night. The lower vision (and therefor range of bows) makes them a lot easier. Just don't try to outshoot them, won't work very well.

I got more problems with huge loads of wiedergangers, fights against these tend to break my weapons, which is really annoying.

[Sly Marbo]

Their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ arrows never miss. I hate them more than I hate Geists.

[OneKingDown]

I remember having trouble with em, nowdays i always build with fighting those in mind,

-archers and back liner with a high missile defense helps
-having the ''missile guy superiority'' meaning they will be the one to move forward instead of camping back and shooting you down also helps
-Having extra shields to equip your 2 handers for this fight also helps.
- if you cant outshoot em, nightfight is a nobrainer
-avoid em till you know you re ready cause yea, in any other games golbins are usually ♥♥♥♥ but not in this game.

[Pringles™]

Just outfit your guys with uniques and pick the best battles (during nighttime) when you want to/absolutely have to fight goblins. Other than that, screw those guys :))

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Originally posted by Cpt. Poopong McPlop:

Their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ arrows never miss. I hate them more than I hate Geists.

Actually they miss a lot more than they used to. Their accuracy isn't that great (it got seriously nerfed). It's the sheer amount of them that they shoot which pretty much guarantee two or three poisoned arrow hits per turn.

I hate goblins. I hate goblins even more than I hate orcs (orcs I can deal with as long as there aren't too many of the heavily armoured ones). Goblins are just a nightmare.

Basically you need to close to engage goblins quickly because it mitigates their ranged advantage. Once you realise how low their ranged attack is you then realise that forcing them to switch to melee weapons as soon as possible seriously reduces the amount of incoming poison. Just rush them with a lot of heavily armoured front liners. They either begin to scatter or get locked in combat and can't shoot.

I suspect I'm supposed to use dogs against goblins but I hate using dogs so I don't use them.

If it's wolf riders then just protect your archers (and make sure the archers can all switch to pikes when they get close). Don't chase them. There's no point. They're too fast and too agile. Sit tight and fight them as they come in to you although you should reposition to defend against them as they approach.

[Drathnar1]

Originally posted by Alpha Rebel:

Like damn, id rather fight orc mauraders then goblins.

No argument from me on that :)
But as Kernest puts it, it largely depends on your setup.

Originally posted by Kernest:

I also loathe Goblins, and consider them the most difficult enemy, but that's because I build my brothers in a specific way, which makes them great at dealing with anything in melee, but weak to ranged attacks, so Ambushers are the bane of my existence.

Indeed. I've seen some who go with 6 archers in the backline, built with Fatigue in mind, donning relatively heavy armor and having high ranged defense, Dodge, Anticipation and bearing kite shields to switch to on QuickHands. But not everyone plays like that. I certainly don't and am with you on the matter.
The majority of mobs in the game are melee mobs, so it pays to have a group able to tackle melee challenges well. An archer heavy group would struggle against Ancient Dead whereas a more melee centric group would probably find it easier. Of course it's possible to field specialists tailored for the occasion for a larger company, but that entails more effort, slower levelling and higher upkeep.

It doesn't help that goblin loot typically sells poorly, so once one has farmed Jagged Pikes and perhaps a Spiked Impaler for men who could put them to good use and done the 4 lair goblin Ambition, there isn't a strong reason why one would need to continually tangle with mobs with low reward/risk (damage taken) ratios.

Originally posted by Kernest:

I never considered their swords or pike to be any trouble, mostly again because you can't be troubled by what doesn't hit you, and they indeed are exceptionally fragile, weak armour and low hit points.

In most circumstances I agree. Towards the late game, when facing multiple Shamans with net tossing Skirmishers backed by an Overseer, I've seen those melee pokes add up too.

Also good to see you here too. I miss a lot of the ppl from the Mordheim forums. :)

Originally posted by batteran:

Late game, experienced melee specialists can laught at goblins too: tin can armor and battleforged keep theses arrows at bay, and good melee defense + colossus mean you can sustain the pair of hits that bypass armor.

Yep, if one really wants to do them, it's heavy armor, Brawny/Battleforged and Adrenaline. And yes fighting at night helps a lot as Hoovy and others have mentioned. Back during Early Access, I made it a rule that I would only tackle mixed goblin setups at night if given the choice. As above personally I don't mind having a party which compromises a little against ranged and accuracy heavy setups for a little more flexibility elsewhere.

Originally posted by Balgin Stondraeg:

Actually they miss a lot more than they used to. Their accuracy isn't that great (it got seriously nerfed). It's the sheer amount of them that they shoot which pretty much guarantee two or three poisoned arrow hits per turn.

I'm actually not sure they do. We didn't have enemy ranged rolls back then (before 1.1) so it's hard to tell. Add that they introduced Scatter mechanics later on (essentially giving ranged units another roll) and reduced Cover to a target selection roll, definitely favors ranged in general.
Right now Goblin Ambushers clock in at 75 Ranged Skill (as opposed to Marksman 60, Raider 55, Poacher 50, Orc Young 45) and one can see they are way ahead. Because of diminishing returns on defense, it is much harder to have higher effective defense when going above 44.
Apart from Master Archers (85 Ranged Skill), there is no common mob which is more accurate and one isn't going to face an entire army of Master Archers.

Going from Early Access (build 0.6) to the current version also saw an increase in Ranged Defense (15 to 20) whereas Melee Defense stayed at 10. Not sure why they needed an extra 5 when they already have Anticipation.
By comparison, Orc Berzerkers, Warriors, Warlords all had Melee/Ranged Defense nerfed from -5/-5 to -10/-10, which I didn't think was really necessary either.

[Ichthyic]

1. tell everyone to wait their first turn.
2. after everyone has waited, and the gobs with nets have moved. shoot those guys with your archers.
3. equip orc cleavers on your melee units.
4. rush the enemy.
5. pop adrenalin.
6. $

the only time I have ever had trouble with gobbos is when fighting them in mountains, and they have the high ground. the AI actually recognizes this, and they tend to be much more defensive in the early rounds, and work their offensive units into flanking positions. then it's tough.

but I never ever had a problem with them otherwise, just making sure most of my melee guys don't get netted, and rushing using adrenalin.

[gungadin22000]

The goblins aren't that bad, frankly. The main problem with them is that they do not occupy the role that goblins occupy in most fantasy games, meaning "low level cannon fodder." In BB, goblins are mid-game enemies, not because they are durable but due to their annoying CC abilities, pikewalls, good accuracy and infuriatingly high dodge skill.

You want cannon fodder greenskins, you want orc young, who fight stupidly and can be outtanked even early game with minimal losses. Against goblins, you need some levels and decent gear to avoid getting arrowed to death early on. In the end-game, however, goblins start to fade, as their shamans are simply not as RAARRGH-inducing as either the undead knights, necrosavants, orc warriors or warlords of the other enemy factions, and the wolf riders are frankly just sad late game. I tend to steamroll goblins late game while still quivering in fear at a multiple orc warrior charge.

Forget that you are fighting goblins and instead imagine you are fighting Genghis Khan's Mongols - very mobile, deadly archers and fast cavalry, making mincemeat of slow infantry blocks and you will be fine.

[gungadin22000]

Honestly, I feel that it is kinda lore-unfriendly having one of the best tactics for fighting goblins be "attack them at night." In any fantasy setting, goblins and orcs tend to have great night vision, so this surely this should put your human brothers at a disadvantage, not the goblins.

[The Duck Knight]

Originally posted by gungadin22000:

Honestly, I feel that it is kinda lore-unfriendly having one of the best tactics for fighting goblins be "attack them at night." In any fantasy setting, goblins and orcs tend to have great night vision, so this surely this should put your human brothers at a disadvantage, not the goblins.

fighting at night puts everyone in disadvantage.
But gobbos suffer more from it, because it crippels their strenght more.