Gold Management on Expert

[CondorDrake]

First of all, great game! Picked it up yesterday and can't stop playing :-)
I play quite a lot similar games and I always play on the hardest difficulty possible.

In Battle Brothers, I find it quite difficult to manage my gold properly. Either I don't take more than a couple mercenaries and keep a reserve, then I can pay them all without problems, but because my group is too weak to fulfill most of the contracts,I can't get any good trading prices anywhere and have a hard time making money.

Or I move up to 12 mercs as soon as possible, equip them well and can do contracts, but I'm always low on gold and have no money to trade with. I literally have to complete a contract quickly just to be able to pay my men in time. If something goes wrong, like I can't find a doable contract in time or an accepted contract goes wrong for one reason or the other... people will start to desert. Whenever I manage to save up a couple 100 gold, I run out of tools or medical supplies or food and I'm broke again.

Is there something I'm missing? Are there other, better ways to make some gold?

[batteran]

Ambitions and renown! This don't make gold but increase the money for contracts.

Also you can mixmax a bit by the settlements status (ambushed trade roads sell your loot better)

But expert difficulty is... well, expert ^^

[Drathnar1]

Originally posted by Equinox:

I play quite a lot similar games and I always play on the hardest difficulty possible.

I like new players who are unafraid of taking on challenges! So here's my 2 cents on the matter:

This can be divided into 2 parts (getting more gold and spending less gold).

A)How to get more gold:
Your sources of income include
1)contracts
2)gold and loot (mostly weapons/armor) from battles
3)buying and reselling trade goods

1)Contracts
As mentioned by Batteran, Renown improves contract payout, so it's a good idea to get it up fast. Completing an Ambition is 100 Renown, completing a contract is 25 Renown, winning a battle is 5 Renown (sometimes 10 Renown if you're significantly outmatched) and retreating from a battle is -15 Renown.

Early on, fortified settlements will not offer Noble House contracts till you reach 1050 Renown so I focus on visiting the non-fortified settlements first (they are safer anyway - Noble House contracts quite often ask you to go kill some encampment of goblins far away (both tedious to march back and forth and also probably risky in terms of damage taken)).
Also try to be efficient when taking contracts. Do contracts that ask you to transport cargo or escort a caravan last. This will enable you to travel to another location once you've exhausted contracts in the current one and still get some pay.


2)gold and loot (mostly weapons/armor) from battles
Not all battles are equal in terms of loot. Some enemy types generally have very meagre loot for the risk you are taking (ie goblins). Others can often prove to be quite profitable ventures (ie raiders). I'm not saying one should totally avoid certain enemies (goblins do provide strong equips like Jagged Pike and Spiked Impaler) but rather to spend more time/effort hunting down enemy types with good loot.

Repairing weapons and armor can net you a larger profit if your expenditure on tools is less than the gain in selling price from repairs. As price modifiers are usually no higher than 20% (this is at a City Hall with a port at Allied status) these days (unless you get favorable settlement status modifiers like Ambushed Trade Routes or Safe Roads), you will want to only repair an item if its worth/durability > 3.33 (assuming you're buying tools at about 200G).

If you prefer not to waste time calculating, as a rule of thumb:
Tier2 and above weapons are all worth repairing. For tier1, only repair shortsword. To a lesser extent, militia spear, hatchet, pitchfork are also ok to repair.
Armor is generally not really worth repairing till Worn Mail Shirt (Patched Mail gives small returns, I mostly don't bother) and Nasal Helm with Rusty Mail. Repairing Nasal Helm basically just barely breaks even (or even a small loss in some cases).


3)buying and reselling trade goods
Trade goods at small villages usually do not cost much to purchase. At times they can even cost less than their worth, especially when you've established good relations with the village in question. Sell these at City Halls which do not produce these goods. Again you can get higher selling prices via having better relations and also a settlement status that improves selling prices (ie Ambushed Trade Routes). Definitely do contracts that clear negative statuses (Disappearing Villagers, Terrified Villagers, etc) before selling items.

Have a look here for more details on selling items.



B)How to spend less gold (and still be somewhat effective):
This is actually equally important. Time is literally money in this game and you'll pay upkeep every day at noon so it's important to keep moving to look for work or battles.
No doubt you'll spend that initial 1900G on hiring a few extra men (probably 3-5), getting some basic equips (commonly militia spears, a pitchfork, some wood shields and perhaps some basic armor/headgear). That's fine and is money that has to spent.
However what comes next in terms of expenses, can be largely divided into 2 groups: overhead costs and non-essential purchases. If having issues with cash, it is in your interest to minimize spending on the latter.

Overhead costs:
1)Wage upkeep - this is unavoidable and will be one of the main drains. Personally, I generally prefer to keep just a 12-men party or one just slightly over 12 men. Having a deeper roster however allows more battle flexibility (ie fielding more ranged vs goblins), lessens impact of injuries (rotating reserves to replace injured men), greater inventory capacity, more events, etc, in exchange for higher upkeep, so one will have to weigh what they prefer.

2)Tools - you'll be spending a good deal here too, not only to repair the weapons/armor you are using, but also to repair loot before selling. Fortified Manors with Workshops tend to be good places to pick up a good number of cheap tools. Improving your Relations with the Noble House it is affiliated to, will drop their prices even further.

3)Medicine - depending on play and battle outcomes, it is possible to spend fairly little on this

4)Hiring men - this will be a large expense but is generally one-off if you don't lose too many along the way. Cheap recruits with talent stars in the right places can sometimes be almost as strong as an average premium hire. Brawlers, Farmhands are oft cited favorites for their cheap hiring cost and average upkeep. Militia is one of the best all-rounded low-mid tier hires, with slight bonuses to Melee Skill, Melee Defense and Fatigue.
The cheapest recruit wage-wise for premium level Melee Skill and Melee Defense is the Retired Soldier, but he does come with bad Fatigue and HP scores. Other relatively affordable recruits with decent Melee Skill are Bas-tard and Deserter, but they are not really that popular due to low Resolve.
The cheapest recruit wage-wise for premium level Melee Defense and no Melee Skill penalty is the Thief. He does come with a risk of unfavorable events though.


Non-essential purchases:
1)Gear - yes you can buy weapons and armor to gear up faster and you should look for good bargains in the market (a damaged Billhook in the Market will cost very significantly less than a fully repaired Billhook at the Weaponsmith - generally armorer/weaponsmith prices are 50% higher than that of the same item in the market). However, the most cost efficient way is to just use weapons/armor you get from killing enemies. Use Puncture (via daggers) and Lash (via flails) to have a better chance of getting intact armor from foes.
Pay a bit of attention to rumors. Sometimes they can lead to lairs that harbor uniques. Some players have mentioned that escorting caravans to settlements with an armory/weaponsmith, improves chances of seeing a unique there. These won't come cheap though and probably should be on the "nice to have" rather than "must have" list if gains are minimal over standard items.

2)Ammo - if you don't use too many ranged attackers (2-3), I've found you can generally break even by just using looted ammo and not need to buy any.

3)Consumables - Nets, Wardogs, Acid Flasks, Antidotes, etc. Yes these are useful and not really that expensive but don't need to be spammed every fight. If you use them only for really tough battles, you shouldn't need too many over the course of a campaign.



This is what I had[imgur.com], some time back in one of my campaigns(E/E/I). It's not optimized (I'm 100% sure others can do better) and I made mistakes here and there but I did try to pay attention to funds. As one of the loading screen tips says: You don't have to be a hero, you're running a business.
Good luck and make that gold work for you! :)

[Shashaveli]

You need to learn what contracts are profitable by themselves (they pay for more daily wages than time needed) with and without loot accounted for. Hunting direwolves and ghouls is profitable, because it takes you less than a day. Stolen artifacts is also profitable, especially with the raider loot. Caravan guards is not by itself. I only take it if there is nothing else and I am headed in that direction anyway. Same goes for courier.

[|Levy| Hollow]

Trading is almost useless in expert because it seems every settlement world wide all have either bandit problems or beast problems. Therefore you can't actually earn anything by trading because the skyrocketing item prices make it actually unprofitable unless you do these 2-3 skull quests out of the start. Besides, your start fund is really not enough to sustain a trade, if any unexpected shall strike you, you are going to go broke.
Don't do the first quest in E/E, as you are almost certain to lose a man or two in it. Ditch the quest. You can't afford losing man in an EE early game unless they are like level 1-2. Else you will surely spend more to replenish the man and the armorment, let alone the time than say retreating and buy the bedicines.
You shouldn't just aim to get 12 man as soon as possible. Only get a man if you have enough armorment to equip him, as a man who can't fight is just an useless mouth. Do not be too ambitious and expand the company too quick. Pick wisely who you choose. Illy equiped trash recruit is likely going to die faster before you can earn their worth back.
Trading wise, although I mentioned how it is useless in the beginning, you should always pay attention to the special production sites around a city. The rule is, a large city normally pays more for your goods, but also sells item for more than their normal worth, castle is more military focused, as in ammo, supply and equipment. Villages normally sell their special region items cheaper, so you can considering buy them and sell them to a large city/castle where this said item is not produced. (Or else it is not profitable)
Relationship modifier is very important for making trading profitable. In mid game you should already have the ability to solve their problem and start to create a trade line, you must secure this before the crisis kicks in, as this is youre safest way of earning money before late game.
Gear-wise, like Darthnar1 said, use daggers throughout your game can save you a lot of money on equipment, especially in early game, you pretty much have to ripp off bandit raiders to get good gears. However, never be too ambitous ,always focus on defeat the enemy body first before try to puncture the survivors to death. I often pay bloody price for being greedy.
Wage-wise. In late game you will need to start firing people to get better ones, and you should do this because imcompetent persons can drag the whole company down, both in fight and in finance. But only do this once you can afford to firing people. In early game it's honest better for someone to fight to death if have to than paying compensition. But remember, you should never let your core members, those with good talent, to die. You should suffer everyone to injury to ensure their safety, as they are the future of the company, you will spend way more to find one who's like them.
Quest wise. Don't care about honor. Do try to scam your employer if you are really desperate. Ditch quest and retreat often if you think you will suffer a Pyrrhus's victory. Knowing when to give up is essential for your survival on E/E/I. You should primarily focus on quests that deal with human for the most of time, as they provide most gears and are less dangerous. The easiest being take back artifect, the hardest being defend town. Do every taking back artefect from tomb quest, as you don't have to fight the ancient undead to finish the quest. But never do undead quest. Not only are they often very dangerous, but they also never ever worth it. (Such as secure cemetory or kill necromencer) And try not to do long range caravan missions as you for the most time will have to flee or die horribly. In deliver cargo quest, never try to resist the mercenary band which try to take the goods unless your mercs are already lv10 or higher with full 250-320 armorment, as you will have almost 0 chance of beating another mercenary band in that quest. Same goes for noble house army which may try to take your good in guarding caravan quest, don't try to resist, you have no chance beating noble house army in early game without extremely heavy loses. The same goes for the bounty hunters who come after you when you kill a famous bandit leader in assult fotress mission. They are too OP for early game bands, even if you win you will only be left with a dysfunctional band.

[CondorDrake]

Thanks all for the advice. I think I've finally got a good game going now, with 12 fully equipped men, around 2000 gold and the first three ambitions completed (12 men, make allies, buy a war standard).

After all, I realized you need a good portion of luck to have a good starting position, On my map, there are 5 settlements arranged around one big town and they produce furs, salt and gems which can all be sold in the large town for good profit (after you get them all to friendly that is). So I'm basically just circling around the settlements looking for a good contract and pay my salaries with the trade profits.

Many maps are much harder, i.e. you only have like 1-2 settlements or the trade town is too far away or behind mountains, so trading isn't worth it and you have a much harder time trying to find a good contract.

As for the remaining places in my roster, I'm not sure what to pick up. My front row is currently complete with 8 guys, all in >100 helmets and armor and equipped with spears and shields. In the back row, I got two guys with pikes, my crossbowman and an archer. Is it worth getting more archers or should I focus on getting more long range melee guys? Or do I need more guys at all?

[|Levy| Hollow]

Originally posted by Equinox:

Thanks all for the advice. I think I've finally got a good game going now, with 12 fully equipped men, around 2000 gold and the first three ambitions completed (12 men, make allies, buy a war standard).

After all, I realized you need a good portion of luck to have a good starting position, On my map, there are 5 settlements arranged around one big town and they produce furs, salt and gems which can all be sold in the large town for good profit (after you get them all to friendly that is). So I'm basically just circling around the settlements looking for a good contract and pay my salaries with the trade profits.

Many maps are much harder, i.e. you only have like 1-2 settlements or the trade town is too far away or behind mountains, so trading isn't worth it and you have a much harder time trying to find a good contract.

As for the remaining places in my roster, I'm not sure what to pick up. My front row is currently complete with 8 guys, all in >100 helmets and armor and equipped with spears and shields. In the back row, I got two guys with pikes, my crossbowman and an archer. Is it worth getting more archers or should I focus on getting more long range melee guys? Or do I need more guys at all?

Don't have more than 5 archers in your company, keep it 4 crossbowman to 1 archer, but that archer has to be exceptionally talented (as in reaching 98+ ranged attack on lv11), he will be the sniper against necromancer and goblin shaman. You can focus on developing crossbowman first. In late game they only have two roles, eliminate high risk enemy such as berserker or snipe important enemy personall. Keep them a elite force and don't spend money recruit inferior ranged bros. They are almost useless until they reach mid-late game, (They are no match for gob archer or bandit marksman) so make sure to not recruit many at the early game.
You should start to think about who would be your two handers, late game is all about mess two handers and 3-4 exceptional tanks with good health, melee defence, fatigue and resolve. Keep your company mobile is essential to better survivalbility. Give all two handers and ranged bro footwork, give all tanks and your sergaent rotation. You can't expect to survive EE late game without twohanders. Long ranged melee is just inferior to two handers in every single way in late game. merely pushing away or hook them closer is meaningless in late game as you often deal with 30+ tough enemies. If you can't kill them fast enough you will start to have big problem, so DPS+AOE is the way to go. Polearm and long axe have neither the damage nor the AOE ability.

[Shashaveli]

Added to the DPS of two handed weapons, one should note morale checks. Big wounds mean injuries and wavering enemies.

[Eye tyrant]

Trading is not useless at all, quite the contrary it is vital that you cultivate your stance with few settlements that produce goods and are not that far from a trade hub. In particular at the beginning of a campaign. Resources renew every 3 days at midday so you need to plan your travels accordingly.
That is also why the map you play is also the real factor influencing the difficulty of the game.
At the beginning try hiring only up to 10 total so that you can travel with 9 in reserve and 1 in the fighting line to use as retreat scapegoat.
Plus you can leach money from other factions battles.
Lure militia in your fights so they ll soak damage for you and cut repair costs