Throwing weapons. Who uses them?

[BrowneHawk]

I never really utilized throwing weapons. In my last game and my current one I have been trying to implement them. I always assumed throwing weapons are not for archers, but for the front line. Most of the time when placing them on the front line, they maybe get one round of missing throws in before I need to switch them back to melee.

They seem to miss a lot, and it eats through my ammo. Weird how its called ammo. How come people don't call it ammu for short?

I'm just curious how other players use these. Or if they even do. Most of the guides I find are 2 years old, and they don't mention throwing weapons often.

[Caveira]

There is a series of a dude called xwynns, he did a 0 death run and made use of throwing weapons in the backrow, they are actually crazy combined with duelist.

[Kill'em ALL]

Heavy barbarian throwing weapons deal enough damage on their own to justify their use, if you pair them with Duelist (and possibly mastery, but I feel they benefit more from Duelist if you have to choose 1 of them) they deal absolutely obscene damage. You can put them on frontline but frontline's Ranged skill is usually so absysmall it's a waste of time, ammo and fatigue. They are a tool to be put to good use by your hybrids or dedicated ranged bros.

I rarely bother to create a dedicated thrower because of the lmited range but whenever I am facing ancient undead (that are resistant to most ranged/piercing weapons) I just put throwing axes on my archers and enjoy the slaughter. If you create a dedicated backline glasscannon thrower (stacking all damage-boosting perks on him, which he can reasonably afford due to the safety of backline and no limits on armor) he'll most likely out-damage almost everyone given enough fatigue to keep the Berserk rolling.

[Dunnit]

It's my first run with active backline throwing weapon guys and I must say they are the most effective and flexible backline range weapon guys you can have in this moment, if you use duelist on them... I like to use overwhelming on them, but it's not a must have.. You can use like every kind of advanced range background on them, like pouches or hunters. If you like to have more hybrid take witch hunter or the "beast hunter" guys (I forgot the correct name)... But duelist throwing weapon guys a pretty awesome atm... If you can get overwhelming on them... Pretty awesome against everything... I was even kicking out one of my archers to get two of them...

Edit: and I give them the cleaver perk for using whips on ghosts...

[turtle225]

Throwing has some of the highest damage in the game. For example, Heavy Javelins with Mastery + Duelist deal more damage at 2 range than Heavy Xbow with Mastery, while also getting to attack twice. Throwing at 2 range will also easily outdamage Polearms.

Many people have added Throwing into their Bow/Xbows builds for the greater close range damage while still having a long range option. That's a 3 perk investment into QH, Throwing, and Duelist that isn't very hard to find room for in most people's ranged builds.

Frontline Throwing is harder to do because of the high stat demand of trying to run a hybrid attacker who is also durable enough to frontline, but with a good enough recruit you can pull it off.

Without the Barb Throwing weapons Throwing is kind of lackluster, so you want to go hunt down some Reavers.

[suejak]

The real question in 2020 is why you would make a ranged character that is NOT a thrower.

Bows are increasingly unnecessary. There are plenty of players who argue that even Xbows are better than warbows.

But nobody who's tried the barbarian throwing weapon + mastery + duelist build questions the supremacy of throwing weapons :) Leader of the pack by a mile.

[turtle225]

I wouldn't even be surprised if Throwing got nerfed, which is kind of ironic since I was lobbying for it to get buffed prior to WotN.

[Kill'em ALL]

Originally posted by suejak:

The real question in 2020 is why you would make a ranged character that is NOT a thrower.

Because of limited range and flexibility.

Of course it heavily depends on your preferred playstyle, if you like to be aggressive and rush your bros forward throwing is perfectly viable as you're going to quickly be in the spitting range the throwers excell at. But if you play more defensively and want to take out key targets hanging in the back the mastered bow is the way to go about it.

Awesome archers are harder to obtain than awesome throwers but they are worth it when you can finally deploy them at full strength and offer benefits that go beyond the raw damage values.

[cloning_souls]

Originally posted by suejak:

The real question in 2020 is why you would make a ranged character that is NOT a thrower.

Bows are increasingly unnecessary. There are plenty of players who argue that even Xbows are better than warbows.

But nobody who's tried the barbarian throwing weapon + mastery + duelist build questions the supremacy of throwing weapons :) Leader of the pack by a mile.

my bowmen often deal 3 kills per turn,.,. i havent been able achieve this with throwing weapons

[suejak]

The things you're killing in one shot with a bow could generally be killed with anything, but the things that duelist throwing weapons destroy cannot be killed quickly with bows. (Chosen and skeletons are the big two.) In fact, duelist throwing weapons are one of the best sources of damage versus chosen, even better than melee!

Bows of course still have a role due to their range, but it's not common to make dedicated bowmen anymore, whereas most people take throwing on every ranged guy.

My favourite is goblin xbow + thrower. Even better if you can squeeze in a billhook for some fun QH combos.

[turtle225]

Yeah, it isn't that Bow or Xbow is bad, it is moreso that the 3 perk investment to add Throwing onto them is so good that it is hard to justify not doing it. I still run 1 pure archer because I'm stubborn, but otherwise the rest of my range are usually Xbow + Throwing.

My current run has a Spike Impaler + Throwing + Melee Duelist who is capable of frontlining. I don't think I would put a Billhook here though.

[Kill'em ALL]

Originally posted by suejak:

The things you're killing in one shot with a bow could generally be killed with anything, but the things that duelist throwing weapons destroy cannot be killed quickly with bows.

I'd like to reflect this right back and say that the things you can hit with throwing can generally be be hit with melee, polearms or whips but bow/xbow targets often cannot be touched by anything else.

Yes, I can easily cut a caster to ribbons if I have him at an arms' reach... but how often is he going to give me a chance for that? I am certainly glad to snipe a necro at the start of turn 2 and not have to deal with Possesed Fallen Hero(es) for several turns it'd otherwise take to reach him. Reliably taking down Orc Berserkers before they can even reach my frontline is what lets me take on greenskins way earlier than my melee guys can actually survive a Man Splitter hit. Ranged superiority is a great force multiplier and to get it you need, well... range. Which the throwing simply does not have, for optimal performance it's got exactly the same range as polearms.

I am not arguing against throwing raw damage potential, that'd be just silly, but for me it is not be-all, end-all factor. Plus ammunition costs for thrower-heavy company are unsustainable at this moment (talking from the logistics perspective of wilderness excursions) and it remains to be seen how much the Scavenger is going to alleviate this.

Luckily there is no real need to choose between bow/xbow and throwing as they go greatly together on a dedicated ranged bro, even without build adjustments. That being said if I had to pick one I'd always prefer to have archers without throwing than throwers without bows. There are many sources of good damage but only one of reliable sniping. Call me stubborn, I guess?

[BrowneHawk]

I'm interested in trying one. I have honestly never made a duelist. They seem to die when I try, how do you guy spec them out? What perks am I looking for other than duelist?

Currently working on a new party thats at day 30. Want to start working on one or two of them early.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by BrowneHawk:

I'm interested in trying one. I have honestly never made a duelist. They seem to die when I try, how do you guy spec them out? What perks am I looking for other than duelist?

Currently working on a new party thats at day 30. Want to start working on one or two of them early.

Are you talking about a normal melee Duelist or a backline Throwing Duelist, or a frontline Throwing/Melee hybrid?

Backline Throwing you can treat more or less the same as you would an archer.

Melee Duelist you would treat more or less the same as you would a 2Hander.

Hybrid Duelist needs really good base stats to handle the high stat demand of having to level both skills and durability needed to frontline.

I can elaborate on any of those but I'm not sure which you were interested in.

[Whatever100500]

Originally posted by turtle225:

Yeah, it isn't that Bow or Xbow is bad, it is moreso that the 3 perk investment to add Throwing onto them is so good that it is hard to justify not doing it..

More like 4, at least for Bow. Without bags and belts you have only 1 quiver for 14 shots and 2 thrown bundles for 8 (maaybe 12 much later).
That's too low for more prolonged fights, and you don't have a cheap quiver to drop-swap without risking losing more expensive equipment.

[turtle225]

I carry a spare quiver on my pure bow archer(s) and he almost never uses it. You certainly don't need Bags. 14 + 10 Throwing is more than plenty. Against Goblins City you can run 14 + 14 + 5 if you are worried.

If you ever have ammo problems I question what the rest of your team is doing that the battle isn't already won.