goblin riders

[bulbatrs]

well I decided to try this game again and I had a nice start with decent 9 brothers, some leather armor and 3k gold made from trade+missions. as I was walking between two cities to get a contract I got attacked by 5 wolfriders that completly ♥♥♥♥ on me, I had no chance to run away because turn 1 engage and my lvl 2 brothers could not hit them often enough either. waf are those op goblins with tons of hp 3 attacks insane movement disengage etc? why are they on the map that early hunting for me?
overall I think this game is great but goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman and it's too boring to play with reloads. maybe if there was a mod that completly removed goblins from the game it would actually become a good game that I wiould play again one day, but while that ♥♥♥♥ is still there no thanks

[Terrible Norwegian Gaming]

I think goblins are one of the easiest enemies. For each their own I guess. Orcs on the other hand, never touch them. Or vampires..

[Denjanjeau]

I think the wolf riders are really interesting opponents, with the ability to wipe a squad like yours for sure.

My tactic in the beginning is spears and shields with a few bows to back that up (6 liners and 3 bowmen in a 9 squad version) and try to avoid the wolf riders stereotypical behavior of running around looking for holes in my wall. Now... this won't help if the riders just run over the front liners to start with. But assuming they dont... moving the front liners in sync with the riders circling and trigger spear wall to motivate them to keep distance while firing on them can be effective.

why are they on the map that early hunting for me?

Not sure. Was also a while since I played (waiting for update) so I am unsure whether your level of guys was very low compared to how early they attacked and so on. Annoying for sure.

overall I think this game is great but goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman and it's too boring to play with reloads.

So far the game lacks the incentive to play at ironman and fight orcs (at least until high level and really optedly equipped... but I am no expert on that part). The goblins isn't that annoying for me personally in most "runs"... but that also depends on how your squad looks when you face them.

As said, wolfriders can easily wipe you if your squad start to unravel. The usual bows and fighter roster for goblins is annoying for many. I think, possibly, the reason why I handle them well is because I go for shields and spears early on (again). That is bad vs heavily armoured opponents, but of course great vs. archers and opponents with low hp that i hard to hit. Well... perhaps I optimize to hit more than most (I recall a previous discussion where my focus on to hit was higher than the person not being able to hit goblins).

I typically go for mercs that have 55+ in to hit to start with and raise it every level, including gifted at level 3(?). Assuming raises on 3 that means 58 at lvl 2 and 64+ at lvl 3 I guess.

Of course you cannot choose to hit for your recruits (unless you save scum) so sometimes 50 to start with, but too low and I name them fodder adn replace them when I can. And in combination with spears (+ to hit), this makes my squad effective vs goblins (I assume).

... but... this probably is bad in many other situations and strategically in the long run! But so far I get bored if my squad managed to come to mid game without getting wiped (iron man) so I am not skilled at end game and how to build the squad to be effetive against orc warriors in numbers.

As a side note. So far I see the game as meant to be lethal. Not saying it's fun to get wiped by goblin riders like in your example. But I hope the game adds even more reason to fight on while taking losses :)

[bulbatrs]

Originally posted by Denjanjeau:

I think the wolf riders are really interesting opponents, with the ability to wipe a squad like yours for sure.

My tactic in the beginning is spears and shields with a few bows to back that up (6 liners and 3 bowmen in a 9 squad version) and try to avoid the wolf riders stereotypical behavior of running around looking for holes in my wall. Now... this won't help if the riders just run over the front liners to start with. But assuming they dont... moving the front liners in sync with the riders circling and trigger spear wall to motivate them to keep distance while firing on them can be effective.

why are they on the map that early hunting for me?

Not sure. Was also a while since I played (waiting for update) so I am unsure whether your level of guys was very low compared to how early they attacked and so on. Annoying for sure.

overall I think this game is great but goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman and it's too boring to play with reloads.

So far the game lacks the incentive to play at ironman and fight orcs (at least until high level and really optedly equipped... but I am no expert on that part). The goblins isn't that annoying for me personally in most "runs"... but that also depends on how your squad looks when you face them.

As said, wolfriders can easily wipe you if your squad start to unravel. The usual bows and fighter roster for goblins is annoying for many. I think, possibly, the reason why I handle them well is because I go for shields and spears early on (again). That is bad vs heavily armoured opponents, but of course great vs. archers and opponents with low hp that i hard to hit. Well... perhaps I optimize to hit more than most (I recall a previous discussion where my focus on to hit was higher than the person not being able to hit goblins).

I typically go for mercs that have 55+ in to hit to start with and raise it every level, including gifted at level 3(?). Assuming raises on 3 that means 58 at lvl 2 and 64+ at lvl 3 I guess.

Of course you cannot choose to hit for your recruits (unless you save scum) so sometimes 50 to start with, but too low and I name them fodder adn replace them when I can. And in combination with spears (+ to hit), this makes my squad effective vs goblins (I assume).

... but... this probably is bad in many other situations and strategically in the long run! But so far I get bored if my squad managed to come to mid game without getting wiped (iron man) so I am not skilled at end game and how to build the squad to be effetive against orc warriors in numbers.

As a side note. So far I see the game as meant to be lethal. Not saying it's fun to get wiped by goblin riders like in your example. But I hope the game adds even more reason to fight on while taking losses :)

it was day 7
my guys had 50-55 attack. too early to damp anyone at this stage you just fight with what you got and I had a bunch of good brothers, felt like it. sure I could have won that fight with better rng, like my 75% hits with pike actally landed in 3 hits. if it wasn't ironman I would have reloaded a few times and won with 0 casulties, but game is boring that way and goblins are not balanced around ironman, too powerfull making the game ♥♥♥♥. it's not only wolfriders but stuff like ambushers that can destroy your guys from rangfe and oneshot your tanks in melee, happened to me a few times with 80+ hp.

[Denjanjeau]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

it was day 7
my guys had 50-55 attack. too early to damp anyone at this stage you just fight with what you got and I had a bunch of good brothers, felt like it. sure I could have won that fight with better rng, like my 75% hits with pike actally landed in 3 hits. if it wasn't ironman I would have reloaded a few times and won with 0 casulties, but game is boring that way and goblins are not balanced around ironman, too powerfull making the game ♥♥♥♥. it's not only wolfriders but stuff like ambushers that can destroy your guys from rangfe and oneshot your tanks in melee, happened to me a few times with 80+ hp.

Sound like it was a somwhat unlucky wipe then.

Whether the devs plan to try to balance these things more (or are able to - can be tricky) or see it as part of the game remains to be seen.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject! It motivated me to reinstall steam, install battle brothers and make an iron man veteran run. Just started... not sure how far it goes.

If I get wiped by wolfriders I will let you know! ;)

[Teut]

I understand your frustation op, I've been there.

But I think they pretty much nailed Goblins ond Orcs.

Like in Bloodbowl, Goblins are mean, wild card glasscanons and you'll have to stomp them asap while dealing with Orcs requires more tactics - and good gear... - to counter their brute strength (ranged combat, focus fire etc.).

[bulbatrs]

Originally posted by Rick Sanchez:

I understand your frustation op, I've been there.

But I think they pretty much nailed Goblins ond Orcs.

Like in Bloodbowl, Goblins are mean, wild card glasscanons and you'll have to stomp them asap while dealing with Orcs requires more tactics - and good gear... - to counter their brute strength (ranged combat, focus fire etc.).

goblins are no glasscannos, they have decent hp and armor, more than my lvl 2 battlebrothers, can survive multiple hits from spears. at the same time they have insane defence stats, early on I fear them a lot more than orks. I would rather face ork warrior and 4 ork berserkers than 5 goblin ambshers.
at the stage of the game I was I would rather face 100000 ork warriors than 5 goblin riders - at least I can run away from ork warriors

[Muscarine]

A pack of wolfriders is the bane of unexperimented companies, can't run away if they catch you.
Gotta keep your eyes on the map !

[Teut]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

Originally posted by Rick Sanchez:

I understand your frustation op, I've been there.

But I think they pretty much nailed Goblins ond Orcs.

Like in Bloodbowl, Goblins are mean, wild card glasscanons and you'll have to stomp them asap while dealing with Orcs requires more tactics - and good gear... - to counter their brute strength (ranged combat, focus fire etc.).

goblins are no glasscannos, they have decent hp and armor, more than my lvl 2 battlebrothers, can survive multiple hits from spears. at the same time they have insane defence stats, early on I fear them a lot more than orks. I would rather face ork warrior and 4 ork berserkers than 5 goblin ambshers.
at the stage of the game I was I would rather face 100000 ork warriors than 5 goblin riders - at least I can run away from ork warriors

Not saying you could have done anything with your low level Brothers.

But you said that 'goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman' and I'm arguing they both are filling their roles quite nicely and present different - and fun -challenges.

Again, I've had promosing campains destroyed by running into goblins too early, it's a part of the game.

[bulbatrs]

Originally posted by Rick Sanchez:

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

goblins are no glasscannos, they have decent hp and armor, more than my lvl 2 battlebrothers, can survive multiple hits from spears. at the same time they have insane defence stats, early on I fear them a lot more than orks. I would rather face ork warrior and 4 ork berserkers than 5 goblin ambshers.
at the stage of the game I was I would rather face 100000 ork warriors than 5 goblin riders - at least I can run away from ork warriors

Not saying you could have done anything with your low level Brothers.

But you said that 'goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman' and I'm arguing they both are filling their roles quite nicely and present different - and fun -challenges.

Again, I've had promosing campains destroyed by running into goblins too early, it's a part of the game.

bad design in my opinion, there is nothing fun being destroyed by bad rng.

[Denjanjeau]

Originally posted by bulbatrs:

Originally posted by Rick Sanchez:

Not saying you could have done anything with your low level Brothers.

But you said that 'goblins and to smaller extent orks just make it unplayble on ironman' and I'm arguing they both are filling their roles quite nicely and present different - and fun -challenges.

Again, I've had promosing campains destroyed by running into goblins too early, it's a part of the game.

bad design in my opinion, there is nothing fun being destroyed by bad rng.

If I understand you correctly... "bad rng" means "unluck"?

If so... how would you ever lose without unluck? Theoretically by bad decisions, but generally we are capable of making better decisions than the computer, so we will win all even matched fights and so on.

Not saying that "unfair" situations doesnt' suck.. but I have to agree with Sanchez here. It is usually possibly to avoid things in BB I think.

[Trappist]

Yep, if you are not ready then you got run away on the map. Also that 3K you had in the bank could have been about 5 sets of mail armour, which would have helped loads. One think you can do is give the guys on end of your line spears early on, if you get a chance to spear wall then it get easier, remember you pnly have to kill a couple of those wolf riders before the rest panic.

[McGrits]

Young bros with poor stats get spears and swords which both have buffs on hit-chance. When they get more able, you then give them the maces and axes.