Tanks?

[Oriz]

I've played a handful of campaigns after buying this enjoyable game but haven't started the plunge into Ironman yet.

So far, i have never used and dedicated tanks in any playthrough and am wondering how other players use them? I have been building my entire Frontline with 2h weapons and QH so a shield is out when they are vulnerable.

I put indomitable on the Frontliners as well but don't have to use it often. Frontline mostly gets +melee attack, + melee defense rolls, + fatigue with a few points into resolve or HP as needed to patch a brother up.

My question is, how do you guys who build dedicated tanks use them, are there certain fights they are more important on? My setup has worked very well for me fighting orcs, noble houses, goblins, most of the beasts.

I've been playing on expert with high starting money so I imagine this might be why i have succeeded without tanks?

Thanks

[CHOO CHOO]

I never had dedicated tanks, except for a few bros that just had bad attack stats (or were crippled somehow) and couldn't fulfill any purpose other than 'meatshield'.

[Tephros83]

Originally posted by stu89pid:

I've played a handful of campaigns after buying this enjoyable game but haven't started the plunge into Ironman yet.

So far, i have never used and dedicated tanks in any playthrough and am wondering how other players use them? I have been building my entire Frontline with 2h weapons and QH so a shield is out when they are vulnerable.

I put indomitable on the Frontliners as well but don't have to use it often. Frontline mostly gets +melee attack, + melee defense rolls, + fatigue with a few points into resolve or HP as needed to patch a brother up.

My question is, how do you guys who build dedicated tanks use them, are there certain fights they are more important on? My setup has worked very well for me fighting orcs, noble houses, goblins, most of the beasts.

I've been playing on expert with high starting money so I imagine this might be why i have succeeded without tanks?

Thanks

Usually 2 or 3 out of 19 bros. Best set up for high talent is: http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-7&1-8&1-3&3-5&3-4&3-3&4-6&5-4&6-4&7-4

Colossus may be exchanged for fortified mind, depending on stats. These guys have great stats but can't easily exceed 80 melee attack and so are not good for damage dealer roles. Most important is able to exceed 30 pre-shield melee defense by level 11.

The adrenaline-recover-indomitable-riposte combo is good (disable auto-end of turns)

Lategame use is to tank the northern army of the black monolith, and kill a lot of them if you have the legendary sword. A tank like that can go off on his own and tie up enemies.

Otherwise they can tie up multiple unholds while you focus fire on another with everybody else. Indomitable is critical for this role given knockback. My tanks spend a lot of time using indomitable.

On the flanks with indomitable they can prevent orc warrior breakthrough.

In general they can go meet a dangerous foe and keep him busy while the less dangerous guys are killed.

Early game I will have a rotation tank in the back row who can be mobilized whenever anybody gets in trouble and rotate them out.

I haven't built a nimble tank, but I think it could work with very high hp as long as there are no cleavers. For some enemies like schrats it would work better.

In goblin battles I use an indomitable tank to soak arrows from a 2-step forward position, ideally protecting crosssbow guys behind him.

Tanks are good, you just need fewer of them than 2h guys

[Oriz]

I've tried to use riposte on high melee def bros before but it seems the AI really doesn't like up attack guys with riposte and shield wall active, so are you using positioning to ensure this tank is receiving attacks?

[Scathe]

by manipulating the battlefield so that your only guy in melee with a dangerous foe like an orc warlord or fallen hero or brigand leader or by using taunt on one of these foes, you can ensure that your guy with the best defenses is getting attacked by that enemy, while the rest of your team wipes out that enemy's army.

by getting a guy with stats focused more in resolve and melee defense than in melee attack, and strengthening his strengths, you can have a guy that won't break and probably still wont get hit much even when he is surrounded, opening up the possibility of getting him surrounded on purpose to give the rest of your team safer angles to attack from.

[Dr.Chazzzzz]

Originally posted by Tephros83:

The adrenaline-recover-indomitable-riposte combo is good (disable auto-end of turns)

How dose this combo work?

[Tephros83]

Originally posted by Space Pope:

Originally posted by Tephros83:

The adrenaline-recover-indomitable-riposte combo is good (disable auto-end of turns)

How dose this combo work?

The goal is constant indomitable and riposte, and it is unless the enemy waits.

A surrounded tank getting attacked by a lot of enemies will soon max out their fatigue. On the tank's turn when he doesn't have adequate fatigue to keep up indomitable and riposte (and so he would be going after the enemies turn), he uses recover and then adrenaline (need auto end of turns to be turned off). If he had adequate fatigue, he could then go first and do indomitable and riposte the next round. Just indomitable is a much easier bar to reach for midgame though.

By going first with adrenaline and then going last due to high fatigue+low init he can keep indomitable up for all attacks.

Discussion of details was in my replies to this thread , starting at post 8: https://steamcommunity.com/app/365360/discussions/0/1796278072831074392/

[turtle225]

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-3&1-8&2-8&3-3&3-4&3-5&3-7&5-4&6-4&7-4

Something like this can do well for most of the game, but you only want 1 or 2 for the company as a whole. There's a Nimble version of this build too.

Mind and or Adrenaline can be taken instead of Colossus/Gifted depending on your preference. Taunt is droppable too but that's really the only distinguishing factor of this version of the build compared to one Tephros suggested.

Ideal candidate is a loser with garbage base skill and no talent but good defense and hopefully good other stats. Any lowborn with good defense stars can qualify but Thieves are typically a good candidate. Unlike the build Tephros suggested (which is a good build of course) this guy never levels melee skill and almost never attacks making use of Taunt and or positioning to protect the team instead.

Useful guy to have around for safely farming armor. Just Taunt the Leader or whoever while you kill the rest and then you can safely shank without fear since he's taunted.

Very handy in Sea of Tents or any battle with a Warlord.

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-3&1-7&1-8&2-4&3-3&3-4&5-3&5-4&6-4&7-4

Lone Wolf variant. Send him 4 tiles forward or diagonal to distract a bunch of guys and mess up the enemy formation. Once your boys kill the rest of the enemies they go pull your tank out from the mob that's been giving him angry looks for the whole battle.

Another build with no melee skill. It isn't his job to deal damage, just distract things.

Fair warning though, this build needs to be at a high level with most of his perks in order to safely do his job. No Rambo missions until the kit is ready for it.

[madracc00n]

U use tanks for holding stuff like brigand leaders/orc warboss or spering off ur flank early on in late game tanks are kinda useless(lategame is day 150+),but u can still use like 2 tanks to minimise risk of loosing bro to streak of bad luck.

[Oriz]

Thanks for everyone's suggestions and builds!

[Darc]

A good tank can make unhold fights a hell of a lot easier too. Had a bro who had good stats everywhere but Melee Atk. I got into a fight with 8 unholds and he saved the battle by holding off 4 of them with indomitable and shieldwall while my other 11 took down the other 4, Once they were done I got pikmen who were just out of range of the Unholds and attacked them while my tank tied them up with his zone of control.
I haven't fought in the Black Monolith before but I think the battle is much more easier if you have a few dedicated tanks holding off the Conqueror and other high dmg dealing undead while you whittle down the weaker ones before focusing on them.

[Scathe]

Originally posted by Darc:

A good tank can make unhold fights a hell of a lot easier too. Had a bro who had good stats everywhere but Melee Atk. I got into a fight with 8 unholds and he saved the battle by holding off 4 of them with indomitable and shieldwall while my other 11 took down the other 4, Once they were done I got pikmen who were just out of range of the Unholds and attacked them while my tank tied them up with his zone of control.
I haven't fought in the Black Monolith before but I think the battle is much more easier if you have a few dedicated tanks holding off the Conqueror and other high dmg dealing undead while you whittle down the weaker ones before focusing on them.

I haven't fought the black monolith since they did the beasts dlc and added the conqueror, but from posts I've seen from people who have beaten it, I've seen that the popular strategy is to have one lone wolf tank for the northern half of the enemies. the conqueror is not tanked, he is kept stunned by a mace wielder or two. one tank, not a few tanks for the monolith.

[Darkwing]

So I've got about 500+ hours; can get through all 3 crises with no casualties on easy/easy non-ironman; and I've got NO clue how you guys can survive with a frontline of all 2H. I guess I get it if they all have QH and start with a shield; is that how you do it? Otherwise, how do you avoid getting absolutely trashed by ranged?

[Darkwing]

And I guess to add to that question... How do you level up? I don't understand how a frontliner without a shield can be even marginally viable until BF and 300/300 armor. Takes a lot of fatigue to wear 300/300

[Tephros83]

Originally posted by Darkwing:

And I guess to add to that question... How do you level up? I don't understand how a frontliner without a shield can be even marginally viable until BF and 300/300 armor. Takes a lot of fatigue to wear 300/300

Originally posted by Darkwing:

So I've got about 500+ hours; can get through all 3 crises with no casualties on easy/easy non-ironman; and I've got NO clue how you guys can survive with a frontline of all 2H. I guess I get it if they all have QH and start with a shield; is that how you do it? Otherwise, how do you avoid getting absolutely trashed by ranged?

Quick hands with a kite shield for me. And/or killing their ranged with mine. Heavier armor makes it easier for sure. I'll start using 2h for armor above 130 or so, but it becomes much safer above 200. And nimble seems okay for it too with high hp and defense.

[RamboRusina]

I have never used tanks long term(not after my early games anyway) and I play expert ironman. At start and mid game there is real chance I have guys with no future be tanks. Eventually I will replace them with people who have stats and stars to become two handers or duelists. The thing I spend by far most money and time for is to just recycle dudes. Gear I will almost exclusively get from brigands and other enemies later. Only gear I will buy basically is maxed gear or legendaries unless I just find ungodly offer at the time. Heck I rarely even buy starter gear outside of knives/daggers/flails, most brothers are expandable(and if things go to crapper I rather just start a new game).
As for working without shield, you just don't before they level up to some level 4-5(some classes like sword master start really high tho). Once you get high enough stats to at least reliably hit you move to two handers. I have played some games where I got lucky with gear and moved early too but you really gotta look at battles and contracts you take without shield as ranged heavy battle will just eat you alive if you try them(I'm just too lazy to change gear, easier to just pick your battles when possible). It takes long time to arm your entire regiment with two handers and proper armor anyway and till then you have shield on some bros so they don't just fall and die. Personally I always felt 190-210 as cut-off point where armor is enough so footman's armor or reinforced haulberk to keep person reliably alive without shield(this is when game says "HaHAA, no steel brow? Bet you didn't think you would get 2 crit hits to the head with crossbows behind a shield dude, welcome to battle brothers!".