Any possible spectum build?

[千仞万渊]

As there ia cap to reach advatange, I dont know if there is any feature for this weapon.....

[Kem]

A decoy/kite build. Att/fat/res.
When breached, adrenaline+recover, then footwork+spearwall.
Berserk is for finishing off and spearwalling w/o FW/being useful in main line.

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-8&1-9&4-9&7-3&5-5&1-7&1-6&5-3&6-4&3-4&6-1

[bouchard_670]

Originally posted by Kem:

A decoy/kite build. Att/fat/res.
When breached, adrenaline+recover, then footwork+spearwall.
Berserk is for finishing off/being useful in main line.
http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-8&1-9&4-9&7-3&5-5&1-7&1-6&5-3&6-4&3-4&6-1

Does that actually work? What kind of bro do you build this on, stat allocation? How squishy does that guy end up being?

Curious if you already tested it.

[Kem]

Yes it does attract and kill hordes of zombies or beasts. No RA, as I use it on non-perfect bros. Otherwise I'd drop brawny for RA and deploy this bro to fend off hordes of orc young as well. W/o RA orcs are too dangerous.

Pathfinder is to be in LW range t1 regardless of terrain and save some fat on move+adrenaline situation.
If def permits, may drop FW and take RA+brawny.
Archers are there to support if breached.

[turtle225]

I found a famed Spetum in my first run post dlc that was almost as strong as a Billhook. Used him as a spearwall on the flank against Sea of Tents and then when he got breached I rotated into the back and just used him like a normal polearm guy.

Regular Spetum is too weak I think. Better off just spearwalling with a normal spear and then switching to a Billhook or something else when breached.

[千仞万渊]

Originally posted by Kem:

A decoy/kite build. Att/fat/res.
When breached, adrenaline+recover, then footwork+spearwall.
Berserk is for finishing off and spearwalling w/o FW/being useful in main line.

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-8&1-9&4-9&7-3&5-5&1-7&1-6&5-3&6-4&3-4&6-1

But I think this is need for specific build, as 1h spear can do similar thing and even better.
You build dont reflect spectum's feature, or actually it doesnt have a feature really :)

[千仞万渊]

Originally posted by turtle225:

I found a famed Spetum in my first run post dlc that was almost as strong as a Billhook. Used him as a spearwall on the flank against Sea of Tents and then when he got breached I rotated into the back and just used him like a normal polearm guy.

Regular Spetum is too weak I think. Better off just spearwalling with a normal spear and then switching to a Billhook or something else when breached.

Yes it's not much better than 1h spear when spearwall, but much worse than polearm when attack.

[bouchard_670]

Originally posted by 千仞万渊:

Originally posted by Kem:

A decoy/kite build. Att/fat/res.
When breached, adrenaline+recover, then footwork+spearwall.
Berserk is for finishing off and spearwalling w/o FW/being useful in main line.

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-8&1-9&4-9&7-3&5-5&1-7&1-6&5-3&6-4&3-4&6-1

But I think this is need for specific build, as 1h spear can do similar thing and even better.
You build dont reflect spectum's feature, or actually it doesnt have a feature really :)

Yes but shouldn't we takr into account that you save on quick hands and fatigue penalty for back packing a bill? Also you'd need both pole-arm and spear mastery in the case of the switch build. There you essentially only need spear mastery.

Agree that the regular spetum is meh though.

[Chat Is Muted, Sorry]

Does the spetum match the tiering and stat budget of other end game reach weapons, like polehammer, billhook and long axe?

IMHO the answer is no, it is a tier below them, on par with a pike.

If it had a full stat budget and competitive stats, you could make a build that takes advantage of having a reach weapon and a spear wall weapon under the same specialization. IE: Hanging out on the flank and poking at people or spear walling as needed, if the enemy threatens to wrap around your line. You could avoid taking quick hands and reserve those perks for other things. It could provide an option for using characters who are more focused on melee offense than melee defense.

Right now, the spetum simply has stats that are a bit too low to be fully viable compared to other weapons. The spear wall costs more AP and fatigue, but is only slightly more damaging than the fighting spear with double grip. But the polearm poke is even worse than a pike, or on par with it IIRC.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Primitive Dog Owner:

Does the spetum match the tiering and stat budget of other end game reach weapons, like polehammer, billhook and long axe?

IMHO the answer is no, it is a tier below them, on par with a pike.

If it had a full stat budget and competitive stats, you could make a build that takes advantage of having a reach weapon and a spear wall weapon under the same specialization. IE: Hanging out on the flank and poking at people or spear walling as needed, if the enemy threatens to wrap around your line. You could avoid taking quick hands and reserve those perks for other things. It could provide an option for using characters who are more focused on melee offense than melee defense.

Right now, the spetum simply has stats that are a bit too low to be fully viable compared to other weapons. The spear wall costs more AP and fatigue, but is only slightly more damaging than the fighting spear with double grip. But the polearm poke is even worse than a pike, or on par with it IIRC.

The Spetum stats match the Battle Standard actually, so weaker then a pike.

You can even run Duelist on Fighting Spear to give your bro a role other than spearwall that doesn't require carrying something else.

[Tephros83]

Originally posted by Primitive Dog Owner:

Does the spetum match the tiering and stat budget of other end game reach weapons, like polehammer, billhook and long axe?

IMHO the answer is no, it is a tier below them, on par with a pike.

If it had a full stat budget and competitive stats, you could make a build that takes advantage of having a reach weapon and a spear wall weapon under the same specialization. IE: Hanging out on the flank and poking at people or spear walling as needed, if the enemy threatens to wrap around your line. You could avoid taking quick hands and reserve those perks for other things. It could provide an option for using characters who are more focused on melee offense than melee defense.

Right now, the spetum simply has stats that are a bit too low to be fully viable compared to other weapons. The spear wall costs more AP and fatigue, but is only slightly more damaging than the fighting spear with double grip. But the polearm poke is even worse than a pike, or on par with it IIRC.

Pike is endgame, just not against heavy armor. The +10% accuracy continues to be useful. I often use warscythe instead, but the accuracy of the pike for single targets is better.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Tephros83:

Pike is endgame, just not against heavy armor. The +10% accuracy continues to be useful. I often use warscythe instead, but the accuracy of the pike for single targets is better.

Doesn't Ancient Bladed Pike beat out the regular Pike against everything that isn't naked?

I'll agree that the hit chance is nice but I usually run Bill + Scythe on polearm guys once they are levelled enough.

[Kem]

Originally posted by 千仞万渊:

Originally posted by Kem:

A decoy/kite build. Att/fat/res.
When breached, adrenaline+recover, then footwork+spearwall.
Berserk is for finishing off and spearwalling w/o FW/being useful in main line.

http://tumult.cc/bb-calc.html?1-8&1-9&4-9&7-3&5-5&1-7&1-6&5-3&6-4&3-4&6-1

But I think this is need for specific build, as 1h spear can do similar thing and even better.
You build dont reflect spectum's feature, or actually it doesnt have a feature really :)

Ofc it is a spec build. Spetum's feature is "raw damage on spearwall". Spear falls short in this regard, as damage is limited to 3 stabs per turn on both weapons. (On zombies, because 6AP)
Combine with "huge" and "mashrooms", "killing frenzy" and zombies and beasts will kill themselves in 2 turns. Spear is a area control tool, spetum is damage tool.

If not used in decoy role, drop LW for RA and use it in a formation to damage+delay orcs, to mitigate their numbers advanrage.

[千仞万渊]

It looks Ok but not really useful in practical, and it's awkward to build.

First let's compare spear with spectum. Only in spearwall field as I dont think there is any necessary to use spectum other than spear wall, exxept for obsititue for pike in early game.

Spear,
Average damage(double grip):23.3
Average penetration:6(12 when picking duelist )
Average armor damage 23
Dur:72 i.e.34 hit to armor
skill cost:4AP and 30fatigue(23when mastery)

Spectum,
damage30
pene7.5
armor damage30
Dur 60 i.e.30hit
Cost:6AP and 35 fat(27when mastery)

So
Advantage:
1.25% but only 6.5point base and armor damage.
2.Can stack RA but only 5 at most
3.Can attack 2 tile if needed.

Disadvantage:
1.Stiff positioning due to 6AP cost, fatal weakness
2.Only get +10% to spearwall attack, 10% less, and even suffer melee penalty -15% when non-mastery, kindda stupid, fatal weakness.
3.Much less penetration, not even possible for fearsome build.
4.Cant have shield or net, no defense ability when ebgaged in melee.
5.More fatigue cost and less durability, but this is minor problem.


So superficial conclusion:
For offensive build, not crucial advantage over spear but even worse when combo with fearsome, I'd rather choose spear honestly, for better and fexible positioning. And 4AP attack is always beeter combo with recovery.

For defensive build, it should have been a extremely good defensive weapon if RA doesnt have a cap. Now spear is better in this field without doubt.

[turtle225]

Is there something I'm missing with RA here? Doesn't it go away at the end of the turn? Does it even matter that you gain RA stacks when you successfully spearwall since nothing got through anyway? Or is the point to just give you protection so that when they do get through you can dodge the attacks that turn?

[Grigsey]

After some messing around with Spetum builds. Berserk is key (spear wall still costs 4 w/ spetum and you will kill someone holding the line sooner than later, good for recover popping) vs. living crippling strikes/executioner helps until you get a famed Spetum, but does nothing vs. undead but you are already amazing vs. undead. RA extends viability into endish game content (large groups of orcs and noble troops) tho you ideally want to build this on a m.attack M/R defense star'd guy.

You can hold a gap for the longest time, might want a shield bro backing them up/ holding one area of a choke point

It's a weird build for sure and hard to deploy right, but when you get how to do it, it becomes really good really fast.

Pros and Cons build for sure.

Like Con: mediocre at best until famed Spetum spawns in a shop.
Pro: famed Spetums are exceedingly affordable (like 3k at a neutral place). Can be very powerful once a famed Spetum is gained.

It's like you take all the awkward perk choices and cram them into one bro and suddenly they work well together if you place them right (hardest part). Place them right and there is like 1/3 of the baddies you don't have to worry about doing much of anything.

Put them in a team of 3 (1 shield, spetum, + ranged or twohander or polearm or hybrid) and they have that region of the battle field on lock down.