Perks Tier List.

[turtle225]

Trying to have some fun here and maybe generate some discussions, please don't look at this as some kind of gospel or me telling you how to play.

It's a bit difficult to rank perks in an objective sense since it depends on many factors like playstyle, length of game, bros you find, origins, etc etc. I did a series on perk ratings back during B/E and it ran into some of these problems but was overall fun to talk about imo.

Anyway, the point is that just because I rate something high doesn't mean you should always use it and if I rate something low it doesn't mean I never use it or that you shouldn't use it. Personally for me there is going to be perks I put in A that I use less often than perks I put in C.

My entirely subjective method of rating is going to be how overall good I think a perk is. Really vague I know, but I don't have a good objective measurement so I'll just embrace the subjectivity. Weapon specs are going to be rated based on how they impact the weapon class with disregard to the efficacy of the weapon class in question. I'm not making special considerations for legendary locations. Kraken is the only one that really demands certain perks and I'm not giving extra credit to those perks for anti-Kraken play. You might disagree with that decision and that's fine, just understand that's my perspective here.

Perks in same tier are ordered based on their appearance in the tree and have no bearing on their strength compared to tier mates.

With that out of the way, let's get into it.

S

Polearm Spec, Berserk, Nimble, Duelist, Indom.

A

Colossus, Adrenaline, Dodge, QuickH, Rotation, Cleaver/Dagger/Spear/Xbow/Bow/Throwing Spec, Underdog, Forge.

B

Pathfinder, Recover, Executioner, Mind, Gifted, Backstabber, Shield Spec, Brawny, Rally, Mace/Flail/Hammer/Axe/Sword Spec, Reach, Frenzy.

C

Fast Ad, Crippling, Brow, Relentless, Taunt, Overwhelm, Footwork,

D

9Lives, Bags, Bullseye, Resilient, Anticipation, Lone Wolf, HeadH, Fearsome


Those are my thoughts at this point in time. Curious to hear others, whether you write your own list or just make critiques of mine.

[deducter]

Nice list, generally agree with only some slight disagreements:

S+
Nimble, easily the best perk in the game. Colossus is a really good perk and it gives +25% hitpoints, Nimble gives +250%.

Throwing Spec is S too, you really need that to take fully advantage of throwing weapons that are currently supreme in ranged DPS.

I personally think Quick Hands is S tier too, so many good uses for it. My person favorite is to kill with a 2H, proc berserk/killing frenzy, and QH to a polearm to hit again.

I'd rank Duelist more like a B or C. Not because I dislike duelists, which I think are as strong as 2 handers, but because the double grip +25% damage buff doesn't require this perk. Even with cleavers, which greatly benefit with duelists, you can get a similar effect if you use other weapons to wear down the opponent's armor first. If double grip were a perk that would easily be S.

Killing Frenzy is an A for me, I take it on almost all damage dealers. +25% damage is a lot, often it makes the difference between an extra hit for a kill. The main problem is if too many brothers have this you can't always proc it on everyone.

I also think Bags and Belts and Resilient are about B tier, lots of uses for it on certain characters.

Relentless is hard to classify, on the right character this can be an A, because it can allow an almost-permanent adrenaline effect. The minor bonus to dodge or combo with overwhelm is not very important. The primary use is to combo it with a high attack character and kill the opponent first. Good against slow enemies like the ancient dead or orc warriors who rarely will be able to move ahead of you even if you are semi-tired. The main problem is that it's hard to find a good recruit to take advantage of this.

I personally rank Rotation around a C. I used to take it all the time but now I rarely do. However, to do without it requires consistently good positioning which takes a lot of thinking to accomplish, so battles can drag out longer in real time.

I don't think Rally can be ranked. Every company needs at least 1 bannerman for certain fights, but you rarely need it more than once.

[suejak]

Hmm, I'm going to paraphrase myself the last time we had a thread like this last year. A perk should never be assessed by its strength on a perfect character or even a level 11 character. Several of these perks are bad on the wrong bro (Berserk, Dodge) or great on the right bro (Fast Adaptation, Footwork, Resilient, Bags, Overwhelm, Relentless).

Some of these low-ranked perks single-handedly turn mediocre bros into bros who are good enough to hold their own through day 150-200. These bros wouldn't be better with the S- or A-tier perks. The low-tier perks are half the reason they contribute at all.

Are certain builds "better" than others? This is maybe a better question. This is mostly determined by what enemies you're fighting. But individual perks can be almost essential or totally useless depending on the bro.

Indeed, Nine Lives saved a key 3* melee polearm with a weakened heart and like 30 hp. This is absolutely the perk you want on this guy. I don't want to fire him, either, because he's got a billion melee skill and good enough fat to Adrenaline polearm. He also took Anticipation, yer damn right, because we don't want him getting targeted by ranged. So how are these D-tier perks? Too many assumptions to rank meaningfully.

[Hykal]

Footwork is a bit low. What's your reasoning here?

Surprised Duelist is so high. Admittedly I am far, far, too stingy to not turn the ideal bro into a 2hander. If he's got high Mdef, why not give him a 2hander? I dunno, perhaps I should replace my 2handers with duelists instead.

Otoh I love Taunt, and I've gotten a lot of use out of it. Many a superstar bro would die because I was too reckless with putting them where they shouldn't be, and would rather let my tank take the hit. Otoh, with better positioning, you would want your best bro tanking all the hits and let the 2tile bros attack instead.

I think the fact Indom is so high, almost damn near mandatory to take on late barb camps shows that there isn't many ways to take them on without deaths. An indom bro can tank unholds and chosen like nobody's business. If there were other ways to mitigate Unholds throw that doesn't rely on Indom, maybe that'd be different.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by deducter:

S+
Nimble, easily the best perk in the game. Colossus is a really good perk and it gives +25% hitpoints, Nimble gives +250%.

Actually with the way the formula works it is more than 250%. It's 250% on a naked brother, but in the same way that Indom is favored by the damage formula so is Nimble, so the actually gain is higher because of the 10% remaining armor health damage reduction.

I think Nimble is the "best" perk in the game from the sense of it being the most impactful on the game state. I think Indom is the "best" perk in the game from the sense of raw strength.

Originally posted by deducter:

I'd rank Duelist more like a B or C. Not because I dislike duelists, which I think are as strong as 2 handers, but because the double grip +25% damage buff doesn't require this perk. Even with cleavers, which greatly benefit with duelists, you can get a similar effect if you use other weapons to wear down the opponent's armor first. If double grip were a perk that would easily be S.

I think of Duelists as killing or at least injuring through armor. If like you say we wear them down with others then we don't need Duelist, but I'm not penalizing Duelist for that. If I take Duelist then I'm doing it because I'm going to be attacking into armor. I could be biased here because I really like Duelists.

Originally posted by deducter:

I also think Bags and Belts and Resilient are about B tier, lots of uses for it on certain characters.

Relentless is hard to classify,

I think Bags is a fun perk but usually not necessary to do cool things with multiple items. 2 slots is already enough to get plenty of value imo. I think it rare that a build "needs" it to function.

Resilient is really strong against Hexe and even just one Resilient guy can make the fight a lot easier but elsewhere it is just weak imo which is why I rated it poorly. I take it on one guy each run usually.

Agreed on Relentless. I need to play around with it some more.

Originally posted by deducter:

I personally rank Rotation around a C. I used to take it all the time but now I rarely do. However, to do without it requires consistently good positioning which takes a lot of thinking to accomplish, so battles can drag out longer in real time.

I don't think Rally can be ranked. Every company needs at least 1 bannerman for certain fights, but you rarely need it more than once.

I wanted to put Rotation in B but I thought people would be upset about it. I rarely use it either, but when I was learning the game it was an invaluable tool for me.

Agreed on Rally. I wasn't really sure where to put it. 95+% of the time it is just wasted so I didn't want to put it high, but everyone is going to take it on the Banner as an auto-pick so I didn't want to put it low. It's one of those cases where ratings don't work.

[Ireheart]

My list is probably gonna make people go wtf but here we go.

S

Battleforged, Killing frenzy, Steel Brow, Head Hunter, Duelist, Underdog, Rally, and axe/xbow/cleaver/Thrower mastery.

A

Berserk, Footwork, Fortified Mind, Brawny, Quick hand, and hammer/sword/flail mastery.

B

Colossus, Taunt, Rotation , Shield Expert, Pathfinder, Bags and Belts, and Executioner.

C

Anticipation, Fearsome, and rest of weapon masterys.

D

Rest of Perks

Some of these are in D cause i never used them ,but for some others it isn't that i dont think their good its just not my style or they let me down alot.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by suejak:

Hmm, I'm going to paraphrase myself the last time we had a thread like this last year. A perk should never be assessed by its strength on a perfect character or even a level 11 character. Several of these perks are bad on the wrong bro (Berserk, Dodge) or great on the right bro (Fast Adaptation, Footwork, Resilient, Bags, Overwhelm, Relentless).

Some of these low-ranked perks single-handedly turn mediocre bros into bros who are good enough to hold their own through day 150-200. These bros wouldn't be better with the S- or A-tier perks. The low-tier perks are half the reason they contribute at all.

Are certain builds "better" than others? This is maybe a better question. This is mostly determined by what enemies you're fighting. But individual perks can be almost essential or totally useless depending on the bro.

Indeed, Nine Lives saved a key 3* melee polearm with a weakened heart and like 30 hp. This is absolutely the perk you want on this guy. I don't want to fire him, either, because he's got a billion melee skill and good enough fat to Adrenaline polearm. He also took Anticipation, yer damn right, because we don't want him getting targeted by ranged. So how are these D-tier perks? Too many assumptions to rank meaningfully.

Agreed on all points. I've become a lot more accepting of bros and a lot more whimsical on builds since last year. The value of a perk definitely depends on the bro in question and your team composition and what holes you need to fill and what not. I use most of the perks in the game to some compacity. Only a few that I never pick.

Originally posted by Hykal94:

Footwork is a bit low. What's your reasoning here?

Surprised Duelist is so high. Admittedly I am far, far, too stingy to not turn the ideal bro into a 2hander. If he's got high Mdef, why not give him a 2hander? I dunno, perhaps I should replace my 2handers with duelists instead.

Otoh I love Taunt, and I've gotten a lot of use out of it. Many a superstar bro would die because I was too reckless with putting them where they shouldn't be, and would rather let my tank take the hit. Otoh, with better positioning, you would want your best bro tanking all the hits and let the 2tile bros attack instead.

I think the fact Indom is so high, almost damn near mandatory to take on late barb camps shows that there isn't many ways to take them on without deaths. An indom bro can tank unholds and chosen like nobody's business. If there were other ways to mitigate Unholds throw that doesn't rely on Indom, maybe that'd be different.

Probably personal bias on both Footwork and Duelist here.

Personally I never use Footwork. I know you can do some creative things with it offensively but it's pretty expensive on Fat to do so, and defensively I've just grown comfortable enough to not need it.

Maybe I should have put Duelist lower. It is build defining and very impactful but in some sense feels like a "tax" that 1Handers have to pay that a Crypt or other 2Hander doesn't.

[turtle225]

Originally posted by Feral Man:

My list is probably gonna make people go wtf but here we go.

S

Battleforged, Killing frenzy, Steel Brow, Head Hunter, Duelist, Underdog, Rally, and axe/xbow/cleaver/Thrower mastery.

A

Berserk, Footwork, Fortified Mind, Brawny, Quick hand, and hammer/sword/flail mastery.

B

Colossus, Taunt, Rotation , Shield Expert, Pathfinder, Bags and Belts, and Executioner.

C

Anticipation, Fearsome, and rest of weapon masterys.

D

Rest of Perks

Some of these are in D cause i never used them ,but for some others it isn't that i dont think their good its just not my style or they let me down alot.

Indeed, some very odd things here like Frenzy above Berserk, HH in S, Nimble un-tiered.

But if its working for you then that's all that matters.

[deducter]

Originally posted by suejak:

Some of these low-ranked perks single-handedly turn mediocre bros into bros who are good enough to hold their own through day 150-200. These bros wouldn't be better with the S- or A-tier perks. The low-tier perks are half the reason they contribute at all.

Are certain builds "better" than others? This is maybe a better question. This is mostly determined by what enemies you're fighting. But individual perks can be almost essential or totally useless depending on the bro.

Indeed, Nine Lives saved a key 3* melee polearm with a weakened heart and like 30 hp. This is absolutely the perk you want on this guy. I don't want to fire him, either, because he's got a billion melee skill and good enough fat to Adrenaline polearm. He also took Anticipation, yer damn right, because we don't want him getting targeted by ranged. So how are these D-tier perks? Too many assumptions to rank meaningfully.

Your post hit upon a fundamental question: what exactly is "skill" in BB? There's no definition. In fact, it seems everyone on the forums thinks they're the best player ever (and I count myself as a guilty party) and are eager to offer suggestions or build ideas, but there's a lot of disagreement because we are all talking about different things. This is why I generally stay away from posting, because it's unclear what posting would accomplish.

Is it more skill to play with completely random seeds and see how far you get? Or is it more skill to find the perfect seed and beat all the legendary locations by day 60? Is it more skill to beat the Black Monolith on Day 100, or is it more skill to clear the legendary locations with the same 12 brothers with no losses on Day 1000? Is it more skill to roll 10 maps randomly and beat the first crisis 10 times in a row, or is it more skill to repeatedly reroll maps but get a better start, so then you can more easily stay ahead of the difficulty curve? Is it more skill to choose to fight lots of Chosen at day 30 or it is more skill to stay away? Is it more skill to utilized builds that are more consistent, say the adrenaline/recover/indomitable builds, or is it more skill to ban that combo via a house rule? I have my own opinions on these questions, but I bet no other person reading this will have the exact same opinions. Currently, these are purely subjective questions.

What even is the metric here? Gold earned by day x? Getting to level 11 by day x? Beating the Black Monolith by day x? Why does day x matter anyway? Who cares if you get to level 11 by day 50 or 150, why is one inherently better than another?

It's like we are all priests of our own religions, each speaking a completely different language and preaching a completely different path to salvation. Who's to say who is right? Certainly none of us can prove it. Yet most of us act as if we are definitely right, or immediately cast doubt on other opinions.

This is why I think BB needs an optional online leaderboard or competitive mode, in order to objectively measure this type of perk/build/gameplay advice. The idea is that everyone plays on the same seed/origin/difficulty and something is measured, whether it's gold earned by day x or kills by day x or something. Ideally, brothers and builds would be saved before every battle. If some players consistently place near the top and no one ever takes nine lives at any point, that's good evidence that perk is weak. If these perks show up on occasion, even if in the early game, then that's evidence they are fine.

[MagnusGrey]

I'm starting to prefer battleforged over nimble for bros that have even middling stamina ever since I learned that 10% armor value is subtracted from the ignore armor health damage.

Sidenote: with legendary helm + armor, it is possible to have both forge and nimble at high values (like 50% to hp from nimble and 70% to armor from forge at once).

Sidesidenote: I never use rotation, adrenaline, or duelist although I can see how people like them

[Kraitok]

I think my S tier will be relatively large comparatively, but as this is a purely subjective list I'll roll with it.

S tier: colossus, student, gifted, bow/throwing/cleaver mastery, underdog, nimble, battleforged, indom.

A tier: pathfinder, adrenaline, recover, executioner, bullseye, shield/remaining weapon masteries, quickhands, rally, berserk, killing frenzy, duelist.

B through D tier: everything else. Many perks are situationally fantastic but that situation either happens rarely in battle or needs a very specific bro and build to make fun(ctional).

F tier: lonewolf, headhunter, fearsome, overwhelm. These are virtually never picked for me. The opportunity cost is simply too high and although good on paper, in practice they tend to be completely wasted picks.

[lasteldar]

Originally posted by deducter:

S+
Nimble, easily the best perk in the game. Colossus is a really good perk and it gives +25% hitpoints, Nimble gives +250%.

Fully agree, it is now repeating the situation with BF in vanilla. It's not that skill dependent, it requires almost no equipment costs, it is perfectly synergy by many other perks.If situation is not changed in the next dlc i perhaps will pass it, because it will be the same gameplay(rush to nimble-> faceroll) which already bothered.

[The Duck Knight]

I would totaly but Adrenalin to S.
It's by far my most used perk and most used activ perk.

gifted on the other hand is something I rarely ever use. sometimes on archers, but that is all.

I'm also a big fan of shield-expert and would set it to A....maybe B.
During early and mid game, you can make anyone into a halfway usefull front-tank just by giving him shield expert, a heater shield and any 1H weapon.
also keeps your legendary shields alive a bit longer when enganging axe-enemies.

[Wyrtt]

Footwork is a D tier perk. If you need to run away as backliner than you failed at this game and have no right to win the fight already.
Rotation is a C tier perk. The only reason is that sometimes AI blocks good spots and you need to move it,

[Wyrtt]

Originally posted by deducter:

Originally posted by suejak:

Some of these low-ranked perks single-handedly turn mediocre bros into bros who are good enough to hold their own through day 150-200. These bros wouldn't be better with the S- or A-tier perks. The low-tier perks are half the reason they contribute at all.

Are certain builds "better" than others? This is maybe a better question. This is mostly determined by what enemies you're fighting. But individual perks can be almost essential or totally useless depending on the bro.

Indeed, Nine Lives saved a key 3* melee polearm with a weakened heart and like 30 hp. This is absolutely the perk you want on this guy. I don't want to fire him, either, because he's got a billion melee skill and good enough fat to Adrenaline polearm. He also took Anticipation, yer damn right, because we don't want him getting targeted by ranged. So how are these D-tier perks? Too many assumptions to rank meaningfully.

Your post hit upon a fundamental question: what exactly is "skill" in BB?

Cant argue with that. A lot of BB "pros" exploit perfect seeds with 999999999999999 gold trade routs, known legendary locatios and good recruits.
Not so hard if you have everyone with max start rolls, perfect traits and means to gain lots of gold with no effort.

[Kill'em ALL]

As others have said it’s hard to judge perks in a vacuum, there are too many variables depending not only on a bro but also company composition, enemy fought, etc. Some perks are completely binary – you can’t possibly skip Fortified Mind on a sergeant but it’s beyond useless for an archer…
That being said, every perk still competes with all other perks. So a lot of them are rendered worse by how good the competitors are.
My current approach to perk assessment is “how useful are they to the company as a whole”? In other words, how much of an impact would it have on my play if I had no access to them. No particular order within the tiers unless noted.


“Nerf this now” tier:
Indomitable – I think it’s outright broken right now, with adrenaline/recover cycles it’s cartoonishly so
Nimble – with how high it is on the tree you can’t *quite* break the game with it, still I think the entire concept is deeply flawed


“Auto-take” tier
Rotation – I tend to specialise bros and so REALLY like to switch DPS with tanks as appropriate
Berserk – The Great Equalizer for those 30+ encounters
Cleaver Mastery – I’ve found cleavers to surpass axes as the “general use” weapons. Whips are so OP I’d consider the whole perk a solid candidate for “nerf now” tier
Bow Mastery – the force projection of good archer is insane
Rally the troops – I double-dare you to skip this on anything but the most OP post-endgame squads
Battle Forged – game’s built around you taking either this or Nimble. Not that I enjoy that fact
Adrenaline – costly but too good an “oh S**T!” panic button to give up
Pathfinder – on anyone who can afford it. Mobility is king
Polearm Mastery – again, mobility is king
Quick Hands – even after nerfs the utility is still amazing
Colossus – I wish it wasn’t here. Another boring “+%” perk


“Solid pick” tier
Underdog – anyone in frontline wants this, but backline can safely skip
Recover – sadly so. I still can’t stand how the Fatigue recovery works in this game and wish this perk was not a necessary jury-rigged fix to it. Still many builds can do without it
Gifted – also sadly so. Most boring perk possible carried by sheer force of math
Duelist – doesn’t offer *quite* as much as to be unskippable
Fortified Mind – not only for sarge, but also flank tanks and flankers. Boring but practical
Shield Mastery – quintessential tanking perk
Brawny – not as essential as many seem to think, though usually useful
Overwhelm – lethal en masse
Hammer Mastery – I don’t always fight ridiculously armored enemies… but when I do, I delete them with hammers
Throwing Mastery – not an “auto” because it needs Duelist to be really worth it, but absolutely lethal with it
Sword Mastery – barely so, to be honest. I lean more and more towards specialists
Backstabber – due to the relative strength for lower-tier bros and backline bros. “Meh” for top-tier teams
Executioner & Crippling strikes – both are binary for DPS specialists and on low-end of “solid”
Bags & Belts – too many of my mainstay builds depend on vast pockets to skip this
Killing Frenzy – really nice but not essential for most


“Meh” tier
Fast Adaptation – sadly so, but the better your bros the worse this perk
Dodge – I find it depends on too many other factors to pull its’ own weight
Lone Wolf – it’s on “Rally” level of specialisation while not providing nearly as much benefits
Footwork – once you discover “drop the dog and rotate with him” trick there’s no coming back
Student – doesn’t really hurt, doesn’t really help
Anticipation – on the threshold of “trap perk”
Taunt – too unreliable, also mostly replaceable with other perks and skills
Bullseye – not enough of a difference made when it really matters
Resilient – waaay too situational
Crossbow mastery – doesn’t change much, weapon’s still perfectly serviceable without it
Flail Mastery – most flails are not good enough to specialise in them
Axe mastery – axes are good enough on their own. Split shield is a trap.
Spear Mastery – I wish to like it, but spears are just not strong enough in the long run
Dagger Mastery – as with other “meh” masteries daggers are already good enough without it 9 times out of 10
Mace Mastery – because most things you really want to stun… are immune to stun. And mastery does nothing for Daze
“Reach Advantage” – I always find a better perk for a frontline 2-hander


“Scrappy Heap” tier a.k.a “it’s a trap” a.k.a “why would I ever pick that for anyone at all” a.k.a “devs please fix/buff those”
9 lives
Fearsome
Head Hunter
Steel Brow
Relentless